Previously Violent F, DM thinks i am overreacting, am I?

[charliebandana]

My father was intermittently violent when I was a child. He would typically be in a bad mood for a few hours-days looking for things to annoy him, then snap when I did something a bit naughty/ annoying and chase me and hit me with his fists in an out of control way until DM pulled him off. It was general pummeling rather than hurting me anywhere in particular. I was always really terrified. My DM would intervene and pull him off, he allowed her to pull him away, although he is stronger than her, and to my knowledge he did not hurt her. He never stopped on his own accord. He would rarely be regretful afterwards (I remember one apology when I was older). He would be in a bad mood afterwards, sometimes for several days, and my DM would be trying to cheer him up and pander to him. I don't know how old I was when it started, but I think it stopped when I was at secondary school. I don't think I ever had any bruises or injuries from this, so I don't know whether he was trying to scare me rather than hurt me, or whether it was just that my DM pulled him off before he had much of a chance. However I do remember my DM saying on several occasions that she would not leave me in the house alone with him in case he lost control, and hearing this scared me as a child. I was also worried when friends came over that he might snap in front of them, he did get angry and shout in a scary uncontrolled way a few times, and after my DM dragged him away when he was shouting at a friend and I when we were about 9 she wasn't allowed to come to my house again.

When he was in a good mood he wasn't violent and was actually cheerful and jokey, so I don't think wider family knew about the violence. There was other non violent stuff that was damaging too, but I just wanted to get an opinion about this.

Do you think this was bad?
I keep wondering why I never got bruised or injured, and hearing a little voice in my head saying that maybe it wasn't actually that bad because I wasn't bruised, maybe I have exaggerated things in my memory, although I think that voice is wrong. This just doesn't really fit in with my understanding of how DV typically happens- I don't understand why he always let my DM pull him off even though he could have overcome her- he seemed out of control but he obviously stopped himself from hurting her (to my knowledge).

The reason I am thinking about this is that I am distancing myself from him now and my DM is minimising his behaviour and suggesting that I am making a fuss about stuff that happened so long ago.

I have started to feel an anger rising that I was subjected to this in childhood, and that I am expected to let it all go to avoid rocking their bloody boat. But I still feel a hesitation that perhaps I am over reacting.

Yes it's bad. Even if it wasn't exactly as you remember it what he was doing was intimidating and bullying behaviour. 'Pummelling with fists' is physical violence and it's no way to treat anyone, let alone a child, let alone a child you're supposed to love.

If he let someone intervene (and it's sickening that he had to be physically restrained) it's probably because he'd achieved his objective of scaring you into submission. Most bullies are interested in exerting control through fear. Once they've created the right amount of fear they can pull back, job done. That shows you that a) it's deliberate and b) they are perfectly in control of their actions.

It is actually quite typical of DV to experience the laughing joking version of the abuser on the one hand and vicious behaviour on the other. Again, because it's all about control. Like a dog on a choke chain.... once the discomfort has been inflicted a few times, the dog will be obedient just at the sight of the thing. If not, they get a reminder. That sounds like what your father was doing to you. Sounds like he also had your mother under control as well.

You are not over reacting.

No, you're not over reacting in the slightest

My first thought is that your DM is in denial and perhaps has been conditioned into thinking that what he did was "normal" and so there is/was no cause for concern. This is of course how abusers get away with continuing abuse - they condition their victims.

You must do whatever you need to - regardless of what your dm's opinion is.

You might want to say more about the other "non-violent stuff that was damaging." Bullies will use all kinds of tactics to keep control. Threats, destructive behaviour, petty criticism, personal insults....

No you aren't overreacting.

Thanks guys.

he'd achieved his objective of scaring you into submission that is really interesting Cognito, I hadn't thought of that before, that his objective was to scare me. I had always seen my scared reaction as a by product to his anger.

The violence stopped when I was a teenager. The last time he physically attacked me he actually apologised the next day- I think that now I was older I completely ignored him the next day rather than being scared and appeasing afterwards, and also I think my DM told him to apologise- and I blanked him when he apologised. After that he barely spoke to me for a year, just blanked me over and over again. He was never violent or physically threatening again, although he continued to be moody and critical. What do you make of that? I had a sense that DV continues until the victim leaves, which made me think mine wasn't too bad. But if his objective was fear/ obedience perhaps he realised that I was older and wouldn't comply anymore.

BTW your mother's reaction is typical of victims of abuse. She opted to stay with you father - they may still be together, I don't know - and has justified her decision satisfactorily to herself with all kinds of warped rationalisation processes, adjusting memories, minimising the seriousness etc. Her child was under threat and - for reasons that presumably made sense to her at the time - she did nothing about it.

Her problem is that you're challenging the whole rationale and pointing out that it's a load of rubbish. I think she probably knows you're right but, if she acknowledges it, then her whole life has been a delusion.

Sorry, Cogito!

if she acknowledges it, then her whole life has been a delusion. so true. She has sacrificed a huge amount for him.

Your DM must have considered it serious enough at the time if she wouldn't risk leaving you alone with your father "incase he lost control".

No, you are not over reacting. Many abusers are very good at knowing where to hit to minimise bruising.

What could be a reasonable explanation for this? Rough play? Your memories are telling you it was something much more than that.

In honesty, the reason I don't divulge more is that I think it would be very identifiable as the situations are pretty specific, it would be hard to change details to be anonymous and not lose the point.

'Moody and critical' is just another form of abuse. Yes, you probably got too big to smack and bullies have a strong cowardly streak IME. So he resorted to put-downs and silent treatment. Very typical emotionally abusive behaviour.

Interesting that you think your mother told him to apologise. She clearly had some sense of what constituted 'going too far' that she stepped in etc. I don't know how old you are..... could be significant. Your mother may have thought that his bullying and intimidation was a legitimate approach to discipline? Do you ever get told by her that you were a 'difficult child'?

Not overreacting

I wonder if by stopping when your DM intervened, he felt somehow that he was less responsible for what he was doing? As in, 'I always stop when I'm told, and if nobody stops me then that's not my fault'...he can share the blame that way (in his twisted head). Or maybe not, I'm just speculating...

She was kind to me and did a lot for me (too much), but had no boundaries and she didn't ever punish me for anything herself. Generally I had few rules and did as I pleased, but with the unpredictability that F might fly off the handle unexpectedly. The stuff he hit me for was naughty stuff that I did every day as there were no rules.

She did say I was hard work and not a helpful child.

Unfortunately I learnt some lessons from F and was cruel to her as a teenager, with no criticism from either of them, although she was upset. Feeling guilty about that now as stopped me from confronting her about any of this.

Good point Katzen, I don't think he would accept any responsibility for his actions, he would blame me or my DM for not helping him more or stress or something else. Never himself.

What kind of age are you? That pattern of a bullying unreasonable father and a mother over-compensating by being passive and over-indulgent is not all that uncommon, although attitudes to physical punishment have changed a lot in the last 30 or 40 years.

You even see it here occasionally when someone says 'he says I'm too soft on the DCs and I think he's too harsh'.... Your parents seem to have modelled a very extreme version of that.

Early 30s.

Are your parents still together? Will distancing mean cutting off from DM as well as DF? If so, that's often the price people pay for tolerating abuse in a family. Whenever the question comes up 'is it best to stay together for the children?', this kind of outcome is one good reason against.

What happened was that while the physical abuse stopped, he changed it to emotional abuse.

I think it may help to think that it is likely that your mother was/is also abused, even though you may not have been aware of it.

Perhaps rethink how you talk to her about him? By accusing him directly in relation to you she feels responsible for allowing it and minimise it. So, talking to her in a neutral way about it might get you a better understanding of the entire dynamic.

What do you mean by a neutral way, Lweji? How would I go about that?

I do feel that we are stuck in an unhelpful pattern whenever I mention it to my DM.

They are still together but I mostly see her without him. Recently I have started to feel angry about brushing everything under the carpet though. Also I realised that he doesn't realise I am mostly ignoring him.

Do you have any siblings? Or are you an only child?

It sounds like he 'let' her pull him off you, as some kind of a show to either you or her...like saying 'your mum can stop me hurting you, so you should be grateful she is here' or to her 'if you aren't around, I wouldn't stop, as you wouldn't be here to stop me'

Either way, it is (to me) a contrived way of keeping you in control. Your mother feared what would happen, ergo, she never left you alone.

Am I making sense. Probably not, long & short...he let her pull him off, to send a message.

I also agree that she is, in some way, being abused.

my dh was hit by his father as a child, right up till when dh was taller than his father and the coward realised he might hit back. He's started to become to become very angry about it now our dd is approaching the age he first recalls it happening (4) as he cannot comprehend how his father could have hurt such a small defenceless child . he has very little to do with his father now. ...over something unrelated. ...but to be honest he doesn't miss him and is relieved not to keep up some charade of a happy father/son relationship