Family angst - am I expecting too much and / or over-thinking all this?

[youcanchooseyourfriends]

Don't know where to start.

I'm mid-30s and I have one sister, who's much older than me. She has two grown up children who are married and one just had their first child, my sister's first grandchild.

My sister lives about 150 miles from our parents. I live 30 miles from them, having moved a couple of years ago after previously living a similar distance from them to my sister and much closer to her.

We didn't grow up together as she married young and moved away, so we don't have a typical sibling relationship. But I am constantly disappointed by her and her family, in terms of the level of contact we have with them, both electronic and physical, and the interest (or lack of) that they show towards us.

She is very wrapped up in her church. For most of the time she's been married, her husband has been a church vicar, and she has had all the commitments that go with that (hosting, catering, running toddler groups and school holiday kids clubs etc), while also working part-time once her kids were in school. She, her husband, her kids, their spouses and my parents all share a strong (evangelical) Christian faith. (I'm much less ardent, and am still deciding my views and faith, having been brought up in the faith they all share.) My sister is a teaching assistant. Her husband left his role as a vicar a few years ago and now works full-time as a school chaplain. I hoped, as did my parents, that they would be able to visit more often as a result, but they’ve got involved to a similar level at their new church. BIL spends almost all his spare time leading extra-curricular activities, doing lay preaching at the new church they attend and running youth groups, including weekends away. (My sister seems to have similar, weekend, church obligations, but it's never clear whether these are in her own right or as his wife?) The ongoing church commitments mean they're never able to visit us at weekends, or if they do, it's a flying visit, literally 1 night and less than 24 hours, into which they try to cram seeing both my parents, my BIL's parents, me and my family, an aunt, and a visit to their favourite retail park for them both and the gym for BIL. So, not exactly quality time, even if quantity is short, and they definitely have no time to help out in any way my elderly parents. And, of course, the only holiday they get is school holidays. Again, these get taken up with all manner of other things and they basically never have time to visit for more than 1 night in half term, the usual 24 hour visit, and maybe my sister will visit for 2 nights in the 6 weeks summer holiday, but only when my BIL’s away with a youth trip. They only ever arrange visits at the very last minute too. As for us visiting them, apart from them hosting a few Christmasses in recent years, we don’t really visit. They never seem to be available. My parents are currently unable to travel to them, as they used to, and that’s unlikely to change much as they get older.

My parents are elderly, my mum has long-term, progressive conditions which cause periods of serious ill health. My dad is her main carer but is himself struggling with arthritis. My parents feel that my sister couldn’t care less about their health situation. She does call to ask after my mum but seems not to appreciate the seriousness of her condition. She has turned down the opportunity to speak by phone to my mum’s consultant to understand better the condition and prognosis. As I live closer I’m going to see the consultant myself sometime over the next few weeks as I think it’ll help me stop worrying a bit and to know more what to expect and how I can best help.

I feel that my sister and my BIL and their kids do all kinds of do-gooding for their church flock and others they see as being in need, and admirable as that is, it would be nice if they gave a fraction of that time and concern to their own family.

My niece and nephew seem to follow the same mould. They’ve not even sent, whether by mobile message, or post, a photo of my parent’s new great grandson to them. He was born 3 weeks ago. They’re all over Instagram though. I’m not on Instagram but discovered that’s what my nieces use and that’s why they never seem to post much on Facebook. I know they’re Facetimed with relatives on the other side of the family too. I sent a gift to the baby before it was born, it wasn’t cheap and was really lovely. I’ve had texts since from them, when I asked for some more photos, but they’ve not even mentioned it…? When I do see them, they seem to be always on their phones, texting and on social media, yet they never comment or like anything I put on Facebook, even about my son, and their reply-rate to text messages is about 20%. Emails the same, and replies are very basic, even if I send a chatty, longer message initially. If I call my sister and she's not available, she doesn't call back, even if I leave a voicemail.

My niece and nephew also really upset me recently. I miscarried and confided in my sister as she’d experienced the same in the past, and she asked if you could make them both aware of what had happened. I said yes, thinking it would be good for them to be aware so they could act thoughtfully. I thought they might ask how I was, or send a card or even text. But I got nothing from either of them. My sister definitely told them, yet their response was to do nothing which really hurts. I won’t share things in future.

My sister shows little interest in my son, her only nephew. She’s not ever offered to come to visit for a few days and maybe to babysit an evening while here for me and DH to have a night out. My parents are unable to and my ILs live hours away , though visit way more than my sister does. We have no other family locally. She’ll no doubt be very involved with her grandchild though.

I keep wanting to ‘have it out’ with my sister (and nieces) but they’re prone to huffing and I don’t want to cause a big family row and cause my parents stress which will just make them more unwell. But I can’t help fast-forwarding to when my parents pass away (so morbid!) as I know I will be unable to keep quiet at that point if the situation hasn’t improved by then, though it’s unlikely to have done so. It hurts that their so uninterested and that we don’t have a proper relationship. I’ve no idea what to do about it, beyond causing a big bust up. And I've no idea WHY things are they way they are.

I'm sorry but there is no reason why they have to be interested in you, although it would be nice f they were.
You sound quite different and at different stages in your lives - would you be friends if you weren't related? I doubt it.
It also sounds as f their whole lives revolve around the church and they simply don't have room for you.
It would be nice to be closer to your sister and her family but you can't force it.
The obligation to your parents is a whole other thing though

Thanks for your reply Hopping. It would be nice to have meaningful contact, yes. And plenty of others around it seem to manage it, despite being at different life stages and in different countries even, and not necessarily being in the 'we'd-be-best-buddies-even-if-we-weren't-related' category. Maybe they're all fakers though and I should appreciate the honesty of my sister and her clan?

I feel less freaky given that you agree with me on the issue of my parents though.

Expect nothing and you won't be disappointed. Your DSis and DBil are obviously older than you, with their own interests, family and commitments. You don't have a close relationship with your DSis, so that is probably why you don't hear from DNiece and DNephew so much. I think you will have to just back off a bit, accept things for how they are and stop expecting to have the kind of relationship that you would like, but obviously don't have. They are getting on with their life, so should you. A big bust up will only make matters worse. Sorry.

I have a half sister who shows complete and utter indifference to me and my family [sons/grandsons]. She does not seem to realise she is related to them and shows no interest at all. She is the younger, I am the older. I've tried so hard to forge some sort of relationship but she is more interested in her neighbours and friends and doing 'good works' via the church and volunteering. I have stopped due to her rudeness towards me.

So I can feel how hurt you are by this. But I really don't think things can be changed. The two of you haven't bonded that's the underlying problem, probably due to the age difference and realistically they haven't the time or inclination to change their lives for you. Sad for your son too.

Some people are cold and self absorbed and don't see they are indifferent. Their priorities are not the same as yours it's clear. Speaking as someone who has tried to put right family issues to make things better...it didn't work and I wasted an enormous amount of energy on toxic members of my family. I agree to expect nothing, come to terms with it and accept the situation, making the most of your own family. I don't think they will change.

It's really crap, isn't it cafe? Sorry you're in this situation too.

I just cannot deal with it though, and move on. How do you do this? It niggles me constantly and I expend far too much mental and emotional energy on it as it is.

I have a half-relative (uncle). He 'feels' closer to me and my brother than we do to him even though he is close-ish in age to us. (my mum, his half sister is much older than him). He was overly familiar at my dads funeral, trying to comfort us when we were not interested, I thought my brother was going to tell him to f-off at one point.

It sounds like they do not feel close to you and are not interested in being close to you. It's hard but you need to accept that, you can't force a relationship on people because then it is just about 'duty' not about a genuine friendship.

Nor can you force your sister to be interested in your parents and their health concerns. You need to detach with love.

Thanks Wips,( I think?) They'd never tell me to f* off btw, as they don't swear so that I don't fear. To be honest I've no idea what the rules of the current relationships are but I'm pretty certain that they don't give it all a moment's thought or worry.
We have been close in the past, had roles in each other's weddings etc, so it's not like we're really distant.
Who knew it was such a faux pas to expect some kind of relationship with your family? Only me it seems.

OP I think unfortunately they way of faiths like that is to become totally absorbed by the gratitude you recieve from people ouside oyur family when you are there for them.

My grandfather was a vicar, and he really thought a LOT of himself, had a VERY high level of importance about him...all beause he and his (3rd wife!) ran a lot of groups, support eveings etc to people in the church area.

I agree that it is admirable... but my grandfather has 0 contact with my dad (despite my dad trying over many years to forge a relationship with him), and he has never eveen sent me or my sister a birthday card! I wont even go into how he treated his parents. It's astonishing the way people don't think about their immediate family, yet feel they are of such importance to other people's lives.

I would probably tell my sister how I felt. But like you say, if they are likely to be selfish and cause ahuge family rift at the expense of your parents, it might be kinder to keep this to yourself. Is there any other family you could become closer to, to compensate for this? You sound like a lovely, caring and sensitive person, and sadly, they seem like the kind of people who believe the label of religion puts them as immune to any effort that doesnt recieve the same appreciation as it would from strangers (ie those they meet through their community).

Really feel for you OP.

It is a sad situation, but there really is very little you can do

If you want to confront your sister then that is obviously your choice and maybe it'll make you feel better, but can you really see it changing anything? You can't force someone to be involved and to care

You also can't force someone to be responsible for elderly/ill parents. A lot of people see it as an obligation but it is a choice and your sisters choice is as valid as yours- even if it seems unfair

It must all be very hurtful to you because you sound lovely and very family orientated, but some people do prefer to keep extended family at a distance and if that is how they are it is no reflection on you

You say that your sister is much older than you, OP. Is it possible that her experience of growing up with your DP is quite different to yours? It is not uncommon for parents to behave very differently to older and younger children even when there isn't a big age gap.

I suppose I'm wondering whether the distance has been set in place quite deliberately by your sister due to events of which you are not aware, with the Church as a kind of substitute family? (Did she feel unsupported when she left home, for example, with DP focused entirely on you as a new addition to the family? I'm speculating wildly here, just trying to come up with an example to show that it might not be as straightforward as you think).

While the relationship sounds really quite strained and difficult, I do also think that relations between cousins, or between aunts and nephews/nieces are often more distant than relations between grandparents and grandchildren. You may need to moderate your expectations a little bit. Similarly, with such a busy family life themselves, it may be that they simply don't have time to babysit for you. Ditto for communication - while I still think it's nice for people to send personal emails and pictures, many families use social media as a general broadcast system and don't seem to engage more personally. I regret that, but I think it's a symptom of busy and sometimes chaotic modern lives and not always an intentional slight. (I do think they should have thanked you for the present though!!).

I do think you should try to speak to your sister. I would avoid reproaching her for her decisions at all costs, but rather perhaps mention (very gently) that you'd like to see more of her and her family, and to feel closer to her and her children, and that it would be nice to see them sometimes. Perhaps you could start by testing the waters by scheduling a phone conversation with her in which you very gently poke the issue and see what happens? (You will need to summon all your emotional resources to stay calm and collected). Be prepared to listen really carefully to what she has to say, because if there are hidden issues you should be able to get an inkling about them from this conversation.

Itsmonday - that all sounds very familiar, apart from the 3rd wife bit! My BIL didn't have the best relationship with his parents (also people of faith) when they were alive and doesn't get on very well with his own siblings either.
Yes, I feel they both interact with me and DH best when they take on their pastoral role and there's a problem (eg my miscarriage) that gives a focus to the interaction. It's so weird.
It doesn't explain why they do zero to help my parents who most definitely need it though. My BIL can barely hold a conversation with them and is usually pretty rude and ignorant when he visits them, taking himself off to the gym or to do chores in the town centre etc.
I don't have any other family really. I've an elderly aunt that I'm close to and that's it. Only have 3 cousins and have never been close to any of them.
It annoys me that my sister is so detached from my parents difficulties too, both on an emotional and practical level. And her kids (my parents grandchildren) are completely oblivious to their situation, it seems.

So I'm a vicar's wife and I know a number of school chaplains as well. We struggle to see family more than three or four times a year, although we have a family member in need and we have helped them a large amount.

One of the problems is that we only get one day out of seven off, and it's not always a weekend. That means we have to pack time with the kids, errands, DIY, birthday parties, admin, shopping, seeing friends, etc. into one day - and try to switch off as well. The rest of the time there are lots of evening meetings and unexpected pastoral issues which need attention day and night so that one day can be pretty precious.

For chaplains, term times are so intense they are effectively working seven days a week, and also have commitments during the holidays. I'm surprised your BIL can get involved with a local church as well because lots of chaplains I know struggle to do that.

It's such a different way of working that our non-religious family still don't get it, and we've been doing it for decades now - they get upset that we can make family events on a Sunday and that we have to be here on Christmas Day. Even our church friends often don't appreciate how different our lives are.

None of the above is to excuse the lack of care for your parents - without hearing the other side of the story, it does sound like they need to step up a lot - and that means having a conversation with them.

I think they would feel sad to know that you feel they love their church community more than you, and I hope they would want to rethink their priorities when they know how you feel, so do say something, and say it gently but clearly.

Thanks for your post LadyPeter.
I do understand that people want and need to be involved in things related to their faith, but I don't understand why this has to be at the expense of family?
I also can't understand why since stepping down as a vicar my BIL (and SIL) seem to have chosen to take on commitments equal to those they had previously.
It was easier to understand how busy they were when their childern were younger too, and my parents were the ones who did the travelling to visit then, as it was easier for them and at that point they were physically able to do it. They aren't any more though.
My parents also see it all from the other point of view. They are lifelong church members and were very active when their health allowed. They've seen a number of vicars over the years and my Dad is always amazed at how my BIL was never able to have a Sunday off and have another vicar cover from time to time. Their vicars always manage this a few times a year to allow them to visit family etc.
I have explained to my sister in the past that I would like to see them all more, or at least have more contact in between, but it never changes anything. In many ways, I feel like I don't actually have a sister.

Oh, and I am absolutely sure that they love their church community and their nuclear family more than me. And obviously they love God above those too. In fact, when I've been to their church services, that is pretty much the overt and covert tone of all the sermons.

I think your username says it all, OP.

You can choose your friends - and your sister has done so.

You sound very over-invested in having a relationship with your extended family, to the point where you are analysing your niece/nephews interactions on social media and feeling slighted when they don't interact with you, or when they Facetime with people "on the other side of the family". I would personally find that very suffocating.

You have made several passive-aggressive comments in this thread and - I don't mean this to be offensive - if you come across like that IRL, then maybe your relatives don't want to interact with you.

If your sister is making trips during half-terms to see you and not just the summer holidays, then you're seeing her more often than I saw my sister when I was living a similar distance away from her. And we are very close. (By the way, what is stopping you from travelling to see her?)

I'm sorry that the situation causes you pain. But you can't force people to love you.

I think you are expecting too much. They have made their priorities clear, as is their right. I am not one for feeling obligated to see anyone, family or not. Your sister obviously feels no obligation or duty to your parents - perhaps with good reason.
Perhaps your BIL does get the odd Sunday off - and he chooses to do with it something that they want to do - it just doesn't include you.
I think you have to just let it go - you can't force people to want to spend time with you.

pocketsaviour - It's not really overly analytical to see who likes and comments on things on Facebook and who doesn't. It's just being obervational, surely, and that's the whole point of Facebook?

Clearly, each to their own opinion but I'm feeling a bit 'Marmite', even on a forum like this as am described as passive/aggressive by some and caring and sensitive by others?

Maybe I really need to work on not caring and just not contact them anymore. Would be interesting to see what happened next.

You may not have seen your sister, but you say yourself that you were (are) close and I guess had other contact in that time, despite the geograpical distance, and that is all I wish for with my sister, and I've done nothing for that not to be the case. Is that so wrong?

I offer to visit my sister, but as I said up thread, she's always so busy with her endless church commitments that she never has time.

When she visits, she doesn't visit me specifically. She visits me, my aunt, my parents, her ILs, the shopping centre and the gym all in 24 hours. I usually drive to my parents to see her for maybe an hour? I wonder why she bothers at all tbh!

Interrobang - I'd love to feel equally un-obligated, I honestly would! It would be good for my sanity. But how?

Do you mean unobligated to your parents, or unobligated to have some semblance of a relationship with your sister and her family?

I'm sorry if I upset you. I would find that analytical, people are different - you don't but maybe your family do?

Yes, my sister and I spoke a lot on the phone and emailed. I see that you don't have this. I would be sad if I didn't have that relationship with my sister - but sometimes sisters just aren't close, and unfortunately it sounds like your sister is that kind of sister.

That's ok pocket. They don't know that I know about the Facetime, Instagram etc btw so they wouldn't be able to see it as being overly-analytical. And yes, now I just sound weird and stalky etc!

Interro - the latter.

Do you actually like your sister? Do you get on? Have a laugh? Or do you feel you should see her because she's your sister?

Yes, we do get on and have a laugh, when we're together for longer than half an hour anyway. Personally I find it takes a little while to properly relax and you need time to get the 'catch up', small talk chat out of the way etc before you properly start talking, laughing and sharing. If you see someone pretty often, or talk to them frequently, you get a continiuity that's just not there when you only see someone for maybe a couple of hours a few times a year, and maybe one longer visit, with little contact in between.

She's very different she's on her own to when my BIL is around too, and he's usually there most of the times we see each other.

I think you've answered your own question in your thread title. You are probably expecting too much of them, from them, and from what you've said it sounds like you are projecting a lot of your own grief onto your sister's behaviour. You sound like you are mourning a relationship with her that you craved and didn't come to pass, and that may be something you need to explore on your own, or with a good confidant.

I'd also stress that you cannot force relationships between family members, and blood relations aren't enough to ensure friendships blossom. From what you've said it sounds like your sister may have immersed herself in a life that gives her something she didn't find in your own nuclear family, and that she finds release or relief there that isn't provided by interactions with you or your Dparents. Agree with poster up thread who said your sister may have had quite a different experience with your own DPs as she is that much older, which may explain the distance between them now.

I too struggle with a similar situation and I really feel for you, but as my own very wise therapist explained to me, we can't change other's behaviour, we can only change our own response to their behaviour. I'd concentrate on letting go of wanting to force the issue, and you might be surprised at what occurs when you stop the passive disapproval at her perceived lack of care. I'm sure she's aware of your disapproval, and that won't make her want to spend time with you if she constantly feels under negative scrutiny.

Hope things improve for you.

Yes, Butterworth, I think I am in mourning a bit. She's my only sibling and we have a small family, even the extended bit, so it would be lovely to be closer. I know her children are very close and she has told me directly how happy this makes her feel etc yet she seems to have no interest in cultivating a closer sibling relationship of her own.

I know lots of siblings who have their ups and downs but who are there for each other and fundamentally make time for each other. Although it seems that they may actually be the anomalies, rather than the norm, judging by some posts on this thread. Plenty of people I know maintain decent relaltionships with extended families too. To me, they're lucky to have those relationships, and pretty normal, rather than being over-invested or suffocating. Do siblings count as extended family though? I'd put aunts, uncles, cousins etc in that category, but again, maybe that's where I'm going wrong?