Here goes (deep intake of breath)

[Mango88]

I've been reading LOTS on here lately and so much rang true. Just want to get some perspective on my own situation. Married 15yrs (together 20) with one early, one mid-teen, DDs.

We have always argued almost cyclically and, while I am sometimes in the wrong, it always seems to be me that makes all the running to make it ok again. I don't do conflict that well esp when it drags on :-( Should add here that I have social anxiety which is often the route of our arguments as we moved to a small village a few years ago which is really social.

He often sulks/blanks me if there's been a row. Won't answer my calls sometimes. If I try to open the lines of communication to discuss the argument he says he's not talking about that now.

After a horrible NYE when I didn't want to go to a village party when he did, things were awful. He sat in another room that evening, went to bed really early and suggested cancelling the NY Day lunch out we'd booked with the girls. I agreed I needed to tackle my social anxiety and have since done lots of work on myself with a fantastic self-help CBT programme.

Anyway, cut to last weekend and he'd been out with a friend to play golf whose wife is a psychologist. She is lovely but I'd never bring my SA up with her as she's the type who'd make me her project!! Out of the blue over dinner, he says that, from little things the husband said, she's obviously 'sussed me out' as she would normally snub anyone who has cancelled on her (I pulled out of her book club) but she suspects there are issues with me.

I got upset as it was quite insensitive the way he said it and reiterated how I'm really working on the SA and have come on loads. He said he can't see any change from how things were a year, two years or more ago. I got more upset (really crying now) but he just sat there ranting on that I have no idea of the hell he's going through with various parties going on in our village and us not being invited to anything anymore.

Feel so bad because elder DD ended up hugging me and saw me in tears. This week he won't discuss if he meant what he said, is leaving without saying goodbye in the mornings, saying he can't answer my texts because he's in a meeting. Sorry for going on.

Good on you. What was it that made you think you had to do something different this time? Your DD's reaction?

ImperialBlether, your last line made me tear up! Thank you for saying that.

When you have social anxiety everywhere you go people are looking, laughing and judging you (or your perception is that they are). Anything out of your comfort zone is extremely stressful and potentially humiliating. Getting a bus, ordering food in a restaurant, paying in a shop, talking in a book group, walking in to a party. Life is scary when you are SA. This varies depending on how much you have worked on it. I know that usually in EA relationships you would say that the EA person has ground the other down and I don't deny this but Social Anxiety is real and frightening and OP has said she had it before. There are two problems. Op can sort out both.

Cogito, lots of things made me feel different this time tbh. Partly DD but that I had a bit of a lightbulb moment last night when I questioned what I'm constantly fighting for in all this running after him - to get back to a place where I'm constantly waiting for the next outburst/mood/argument?? Because I know it will come. Sadly, DD has seen this many time. I remember when I fell down a full flight of stairs during the night when she was young and crawled back up the stair on all fours black and blue. He didn't even get out of bed - just got angry and said what did I want him to do? Call a doctor? I have a vivid memory of sobbing on the landing floor with my little girls rubbing my back. I've put them through so much :-(

Horrible man! Good for you Mango. You'll do it. You are strong enough.

omg - just read your stairs post, Mango. He is utterly vile, no wonder you have anxiety. I really wonder if ALL your SA might be to do with having been shredded by this abuser. I doubt you need therapy at all, unless it would help when recovering from getting rid of him.

What TheyLearnedFromBrian Tue 17-Feb-15 10:19:22 said put it well. He's the problem, not you. And there's no way the book club/psych "sussed you" ... that has "vindictive lie" written all over it. Grrrr ...

He didn't even get out of bed - just got angry and said what did I want him to do? Call a doctor?

Bloody hell, that is just shocking. I honestly can't imagine what would go through someone's mind. If I see a stranger on the street fall over I stop and help them - how could anyone ignore the person they're supposedly in love with hurting themselves??

When I read your opening post I thought maybe you just needed to see each others points of view, but everything you've posted since is making me want to shout "LTB right now!"

Your husband's appalling behaviour is creating an unhappy, frightening, anxiety-making environment. I don't think that's your responsibility but I think, if you make the break, you will have a much better relationship with your DDs going forward.

Why don't you do something now, while you're angry with him (and no wonder)?

Phone a solicitor experienced in family law and make an appointment to talk through your financial options.

If you have a healthy relationship with your mum, she will be so relieved if you talk to her openly about your marriage. She would be horrified to know how you feel and hopefully she'd be a huge support to you if you do decide to leave.

Btw your daughters will have him sussed. Don't worry if he says that he'd go for 50-50 care - I would just tell me point blank that he won't. Tell your daughters, too, that you are not giving them a choice (which is what he will say), that they are too young and you are acting in their best interests. My children were very, very relieved not to have to make that choice.

FWIW whilst I was married to my exH who was EA, my self esteem was so low that I never wanted to socialise and was happiest at home with the children. He had ground me down so much that I thought I was the world's most boring and unattractive person.

Now that he has been gone for a couple of years, I am pretty happy with myself and have a good circle of friends. Whilst I am naturally an introvert and will always hate parties, which are my idea of hell and were his idea of heaven, I do go out 1-2 times a week now to things which suit me (talks, charity work, small suppers or pub theatre with friends) and I really enjoy that.

Based on my experience I'd second that you don't have an SA problem so much as an EA H problem. I think you will feel a lot better once you are away from him.

It's seems to me too that his lack of support and empathy is worsening your SA.

He either needs to realise that or your relationship will be in even more difficulty. I think you need to get some help from WA to work out whether or not he is being abusive. It sounds to me as though he is. He is certainly very unsupportive. He may even be the cause of your SA. You need to step back and examine his attitude.

Thanks for everyone's comments yesterday. I've been overwhelmed. Yesterday was pretty crap. Didn't contact him all day apart from finally to ring at about 7pm when the kids asked if he'd rung to say he was on his way home. He was already in the car but said he'd been on another call which is why he hadn't rung to say he'd left like he usually does. I think that was probably another control thing :-(

Although there were no big arguments the atmosphere is awful and I looked and felt like death by the evening. I can literally see the pounds dropping off me this week (and I didn't need to lose any lol!).

Anyway, I've found a solicitor that is offering a free half hour initial consultation so am seeing if I can get an appointment end of this week when, by coincidence, both DDs are at their friends so I have some time.

We have friends coming for lunch this Sunday and I pre-empted him saying we should cancel just after I can't alter my online food order any more (another control thing??) by telling him that was the deadline so he needed to let me know if he was going to cancel. His response was 'why do I always have to make the decisions?'!! I replied that I was fine to go ahead and put on a front (it's not like it would be the first time) so he's said let them come over. Tbh it will probably be a better atmosphere with others there to dilute it (even if it is all a bit fake).

Unbelievable - just had an email from him saying he can't understand how once again we've ended up like this. That I have misinterpreted what he said and he fully supports what I'm doing for my SA and that he appreciates to expect any progress straight away is premature. He also says that we go through cycles of this and it gets harder each time!!!

Can't bring myself to email back - part of me is actually quite chilled (in a sinister way not a relaxed one) at how calm his message is. I have typed a draft that I'm not sending just to get it off my chest. What I want to say is FFS I did not misinterpret anything and you are messing with my mind again. We go through cycles because I constantly try to change myself to make it ok and then it happens all over again.

Just feel sick that it's going to me breaking everything up if I carry on down this road because he's acting like I'm making a drama out of nothing :-(

It's an interesting response if you look at it in quite a detached way. You 'misunderstanding' is neatly telling you that any problem you have is all in your head. Matched by his inability to understand why things have broken down. So it's all just a simple matter of talking at cross purposes and getting the wrong end of the stick. ... I would call that an attempt to trivialise. Then he adopts the 'I'm fully behind you' mode....which is quite at odds with his bullying rant over the dinner where he was anything but supportive.

No apology for reducing you to tears?

Oh yes, wouldn't dignify it with an answer. After all... he's so easily confused!!!

Absolutely no response to that email, Mango. He has it down to a fine art, doesn't he? The "you can't do right for doing wrong and i'm so confused by you" script? The one where the entire planet is about to implode because of you and he's just trying to hold it all together, exasperated though he is by the endless decisions you foist on him. What a martyr to your problems he is.

Sarcasm isn't very helpful but really, I think he drains the joy out of Life as well as being downright abusive in many ways. Good luck with the solicitor!

Your anxiety is caused by him, he is making your life a misery, what a sad horrible man to do that to you - and his kids, please keep going and get out of this toxic relationship, you will never do right, he clearly has deep seated issues where he has to constantly bully his partner - is that really the type of man you want and for your daughters to see this and think it's normal, it's definitely not, it's really sickening to read tbh.

Stay strong, try making new friends, call up old ones, lean on family members, anyone who will give you strength to get out of this vile situation - he's inside panicking as he feels he is losing some control - how will he function if he doesn't have you to kick every day to make him feel big.

Wow! It never ceases to amaze me how screwed up men can be. I am in a similar situation and it's only when I hear someone else say it that I realise how much we are compromising ourselves. You do not have a problem socially - we are who we are and we shouldn't apologise for that . You want the best for your children and you are striving to understand yourself - please don't doubt yourself.

I don't know about you but my biggest struggle is trying to believe that what he's doing really is wrong and not just a result of my insecurities/failiures - this site has been so empowering for me. The people here will help you

I have a certain low level social anxiety which was much worse when I was young, though the term didn't exist them. But what I see from his comments to you at the dinner table, that would all have raised my social anxiety tremendously.

As it was I was very fortunate in the people I had around me and they helped to build up my confidence instead of knocking it down. Only one abusive ex tried to take advantage of my anxieties by inventing stories to isolate me, but fortunately I was in too strong a psychological state at the time and I left him shortly after.

So what I'm saying is that you may have had this problem before you met him and maybe you will never to totally free of it, but he is playing on it to keep you in your place.

He's gaslighting again. Telling you it's all in your head, mountains/molehills and just a silly misunderstanding.

I think you need a break from this man - maybe permanent - certainly for a few days, so you can get a break from it.

I saw upthread that he abandons you as soon as you get to a social event? So he feels he has to have someone there as his partner, but he feels no obligation to spend any time with them. So you're just an adjunct to him, so that he can arrive not-on-his-own? This is so much the worse, because he knows you have SA.

Let's imagine that you really do have SA, Mango. He drapes you on his arm for the grand entrance and illusion of devoted social perfection at some "do" or other. Then he abandons you like someone who dumps an unwanted pet at the roadside. I would call that deliberately abusive behaviour, designed to torture you and create/instil/exacerbate SA.

You aren't breaking anything up at all. You're putting your life and Self back together after he consciously and systematically wrecked you! < still unconvinced that you have SA other than via the stress of this man holding you captive >

Thanks everyone. I def do have SA tipsy as it goes way back before him. But I agree he's not helping me. Didn't reply to the email yesterday but DDs were really down and upset last night at the obvious atmosphere in the house so returned an email to him this morning, on the end of one about something else, saying we needed to try and get along at home for their sake until something could be resolved away from them. His response was that he is still unclear as to what the issue is??!! I texted that I would phone him as I was just going out with the dog and could speak w/o DDs there. His reply was that 'I could try. Hopefully he would be around'!!!!!!!!

Anyway, did get him only for him to say he would call me back in 2 mins. Seriously, I had echoes of MN threads in my head that this was typically controlling behaviour. He did ring back and I relayed calmly what he'd said that night, how I felt etc - felt really clear headed about it. Initially he tried to end the conversation saying I was being aggressive so I, again, stayed calm and invited him to give his side. He says I'm over reacting. I told him he was messing with my mind which he really took badly.

After we pretty much got nowhere, he threw in that we should sit the DDs down this weekend and tell them he's moving out to a flat and he'd arrange some viewings for next week. This is typical extreme reaction from him and was probably to get a reaction from me although I have no doubt he would do it. Previously in rows he's stormed out of the house at night not saying if or when he'd be back and I've had the DDs crying and in bed with me; on holiday, he did the same and went off along a rough coast for about an hour and my poor DDs were patrolling up and down the beach looking for him in panic that he'd gone into the sea :-(

I wasn't panicked at him leaving, just the effect on DDs which would be horrific. Eldest already has anxiety issues at school. So I did stall a bit and said we would not have that conversation with them this weekend right on top of a new term at school and that we needed to consider all our options. Feel really weak at doing that :-(

Currently it's been left that we'll both think about other alternatives but he says 'he'll struggle'...

My first reaction to your post is that it seems he is actively abusing your DDs too. Or at least using them to shut you up, make you recant, back off or whatever. He's a nasty piece of work for sure. I love the idea of him getting a flat but see no need to discuss it with DDs until it's set up.

He tried to control the flow of that call from start to end, didn't he?

Sorry about harping on and denying your SA Mango

What would you like to have happen next?