Feeling down about MIL relationship

[Annabelflies12]

I have been feeling increasingly down about the relationship, or lack of, with my DP's mother.

Brief history - MIL is single, divorced for past 15 years and makes it extremely clear that she has no time for people (only her pet), and has lost a number of friends in the last 2 years (and before then, there have been various stories of people she used to know but no longer speaks to due to a falling out). Myself and MIL have only ever had one actual spoken dispute - where she wanted to come to the cinema with myself and DP on our last night together before he went to work abroad for 4 weeks (we had agreed to spend the day having lunch with her, but that wasn't enough). I simply said to my DP I would rather it was just us in the evening. DP agreed and said to his mum on the phone that it would be nice for it to be just me and him in the evening, due to us having not had a weekend together already at this point for 2 weeks (again due to work). MIL went crazy, she left her phonw on in her pocket without saying bye to my DP, and we could hear he speaking to her friend who she was on a walk with at the time of the call...saying all sorts about being sidelined etc. The reason I believe this was intentional (leaving phone on in her pocket) is because she has done it since when something has not gone her way and uses it as a way to guilt trip my DP by making him feel sorry for her. Not sure if DP realises this although I have highlighted it to him - he doesnt really comment either way. Anyway on that ocassion I called back and said she was more than welcome to come to the cinema and said myself and my DP did not want to upset her, and I said I had always thought me and her were friends...she replied saying i would never be a friend of hers, and that I cling to my DP and she doesnt like that. She said if something happened to DP when he was abroad, she would never forgive me.

This outburst was quite shocking to me and DP - DP was in tears. I knew MIL wasnt keen on me (something you can sense as a woman i guess), but i never thought we would have had a confrontation like that with her. The odd thing was that every 2/3 weeks we had seen MIL, usually when I suggested it to DP!!!

After that, while he was away, she sent DP emails saying I was clingy and needy and was holding him back with his career. DP was honest about the emails but hadnt defended me, merely ignored the comments completely. Whilst I know I can come across as clingy in person (we hold hands etc in public), I certainly dont hold my DP back in his career and I am definitely not needy...I have a good job and know my own mind and I am all for my DP seeing his friends and having hobbies outside me and him - her comments sounded like a random stab at me while he was abroad.

Anyway since that incident (a few months ago), things have always been a little icy, but civil, between us. At Xmas, MIL bought me a pair of socks and a Nivea lip balm...I am not one to judge gifts on cost as I feel that is very tacky, but it was obvious that no thought had gone into anything, and compared to the year before it was obvious she was making some kind of point (I havent mentioned this to DP as dont see the point and dont want to hurt him in this).

Fast forward to today, and MIL essentially ignores my existence. I am the sort of person who likes to get on with people, and I like to find common ground with people and emjoy having different types of people in my life. As such, although MIL isnt 'my type' of person, I was fully ready to get on with her and enjoy her company. As the weeks have gone by, I feel she is increasingly negative about my relationship with DP. She recently asked DP to move in with her, and when he declined, more recently said ' i dont know why youre not allowed to buy a place of your own.' (Me and DP are saving for a home - his choice as much as mine).

My DP is protective of his mum as he lived with her from a young age, and (IMO), MIL has always made DP's father out to be a very bad person...not something i can personally see, but is irrelevant now as DP has a good relationship with him. I have mentioned to DP that I feel uncomfortable around her, and he says 'shes just strange,' but it makes me really sad that is has to be like this.

Am I taking this too much to heart? realistically is there anything i can do? should i just shut up and be glad it isn't as bad as some MIL stories on here?

SORRY IT'S SO LONG!

Unfortunately you can't always have the sort of relationship with your ILs that you want. Believe me, I've tried. It has to be a 2 way street - you may feel that it would be wonderful if you could be friends and be close and truly have an "extended family" but it doesn't necessarily work out like that.

The only thing I can suggest is that you continue to be civil and pleasant and friendly for your DP's sake, but if she continues to be nasty then I think you're going to have to maintain/increase the distance between you and mil.

Things may well change down the line: eg if marriage/moving in together/dc crop up, you may find that she either gets nastier or starts to be overly friendly. Now either of these could be for the better or for the worse, but just be aware that the situation may well change as your relationship progresses. How you respond at the time will depend on how she has treated you up until that point.

Fwiw I don't think you should "just shut up and be glad it isn't as bad as some other mil stories". If you had a broken finger and met someone with a broken leg, just because their break and mobility may be worse than yours, it doesn't make your finger hurt less. Same applies here.

All you can do is stand by your DP (who sounds like he has been put through shit btw) and face this together.

I have an awful relationship with my PIL. They accused me of 'stealing' their son and dragging him away from his family despite me going there once a week with him and encouraging him to go visit uncles and aunts etc with me so I wouldn't be marrying into a family of strangers. They have been nothing but disrespectful and so in turn I just gave up. They were abusive parents, DH and his sister have realised this now, she's moved to the other side of the country and he holds them at arms length. This sort of thing is made easier if it doesn't feel like it's just you against the world.

Whats your relationship like with the rest of his family, if he has any? I found comfort in the early stages of our relationship that it was 'just them' and his other relatives loved spending time with me and saw we were happy.

As PP said, things can change. My PIL started off an absolute dream until it became apparent I was not temporary and I was going to be #1 to DH, not them, which made me the enemy She could mellow out when she gets to know you better, or if you have any DC. Do you ever see her without DP? If she isn't completely bonkers like my PIL she might see she's misjudged you and you could become closer?

I wouldn't want her in my life and would see her not wanting anything to do with me as a massive bullet dodged. Don't debase yourself for this horror of a woman Annabel

You have a huge problem here in both the shape of your man and his overbearing mother. The dynamics here may never change.

This is one of the worst MIL stories I have read on here and I have read a fair few now. Emotionally well adjusted people simply do not act like his mother has done and does. I was not at all surprised that she has fallen out with all and sundry; such toxic people do. She is more than to use your DPs description of her "just strange", that is basically letting her get away with all this. He likely does not want to see or even cannot see what she is really like; its too painful for him to see that his mother is not at all a nice person. She may well have some form of untreated - and untreatable personality disorder. It is NOT your fault she is like this. You did not make her this way (her own family of origin did all that).

You likely come from a family where this type of familial dysfunction is thankfully unknown but being nice to such people does not work. They see kindness as weakness to be further exploited. "Normal" rules of familial interaction do not apply here because such people like his mother always play outside the rules. She has never apologised nor has accepted any responsibility for her actions has she?. You do not have to continue to suck it up or be pleasant to someone who actively hates your very being; you do not have to have any sort of relationship with her. You would not have tolerated any of this from a friend, family are no different.

Your man needs far more to stand up for his own self as well as you; he is allowing her really to keep walking all over you. He cannot stand up for himself due to inbuilt conditioning on her part and he may never be able to either. His way of dealing with all this is to ignore it completely and that is not working either. You're the one being hurt here by the two of them.

Do you really want to marry this man, have children by him?. It would do your children no favours for them to have any sort of relationship with her.

You for your own part can maintain and reinforce your already too low boundaries. You do not have to have any sort of a relationship with her and you do not have to tolerate any of this including crap presents. I hope you threw those out.

She asked your man to move in with her?. Thankfully he declined. She was totally expecting him to move in. I would think that his dad is actually ok but she for her own reasons has demonised him and made him out to be bad. Unfortunately this man also abjectly failed to protect his son from his not so nice mother so I would not let him off the hook either.

Reading "Toxic Inlaws" written by Susan Forward may well help you further.

Stop suggesting to your DH that he should see his mum. He doesn't want to as you said. He obviously knows what she's like and that she won't change so why don't you take his lead and not put as much importance on her.

holding hands with your partner in public is not being clingy. Plus what the others said.

It is awful when a DP will not stand up to his Mum as a wife should feel that she comes first.
My DH never did, until recently, even acknowledge that his DM was difficult. She always waited until he was out of the room before she stuck the knife into me. I would tell him what she said, but he stonewalled me. It made me have some choice thoughts about him.

So now I am a MIL myself and I think you should respond firmly and assertively, to any nastyness from her, as her behaviour is appalling.

You are trying to be nice to someone who is not at all nice. She has to let go. If you keep being nice and reasonable then it is going to take her longer to get the message that you are not going to tolerate her behaviour. You wouldn't normally allow someone to treat you like this, so why should she be an exception.

It looks unlikely that your DP will take your side. So you have to decide whether it is a deal breaker. I just got to a state of indifference with mine. We lived 100s of miles away so I made sure that we saw little of her and my marriage survived. She is still waiting for us to divorce and did say grudgingly the other day, that I was a good Mum.

I just wish I had been able to sock it to her when I was young. It would have stopped her in her tracks and prevented further nasty remarks.
Best of luck as it is not an easy situation to be in and is well documented on MNet.

Thanks everyone for your responses.

A couple of posters have touched on the fact that my being nice only furthers her nastiness I have actually found this to be the case... I don't understand the logic behind it, but it is certaintly true here. A few weeks back she had to have some hospital tests and I offered to go with her as DP was not able to (she declined, 'no, fine to go alone' via text). I then messaged after the apointment to say I hoped she was ok - no response and DP tells me that she didnt like that kind of message as it is like pity.

A poster above suggested my DP isnt keen on seeing her - this is not the case. He seems to almost be the parent in the relationship - it terms of politeness, giving a balanced view on things and offering her advice. I was just trying to explain above that i often initiated trips to see her as I wanted us to be a happy family - all of us.

At Christmas we were on the way to MIL's house and my DP was actively worried about the time we were turning up, and said 'i know mum will be annoyed if we are there any later than the afternoon.' I didn't undersatdn why he couldnt tell her we would be there when it suited us - seeing as we were the ones driving over 100 miles. It really irritates me as we have our own lives and due to a current situation with our jobs (this will change in 12 months), we see very little of one another - only one full day a week at the moment.

I feel genuinely anxious when he mentions her, as I there is rarely a time when I feel she has contacted my DP without an undercurrent of making some sort of point. My DP doesn't seem to understand this, and gets cross when I mention it... the most he has ever said badly of her is 'shes a bit strange.'

She has recently purchased a house (because current place she has fallen out with the neighbours...surprising, huh?). I just know that we will be hit by a mass of demands and guilt trips and I dont know how much more I can cope with it all - watching DP struggle to organise his work and time around drving the 200 plus miles to her home, and seeing me (which is at the moment only once a week). Fed up and really wanted a nice relationship with her, but she makes me feel completely irrelevant and temporary.

Annabelflies12,

Re your comment:-
"He seems to almost be the parent in the relationship - it terms of politeness, giving a balanced view on things and offering her advice".

That's because he really is; she is using him as a parental figure. They are really enmeshed and its not at all healthy. He on some level probably wishes that this would all go away but it will not and his inertia is only hurting his own self as well as you now. His "she is a bit strange" comment is the very least of it; he knows to some extent what she is like and cannot face it (i.e. the truth about her) at all. He would rather bury his head in the sand rather than deal with her himself because he cannot and won't do so either.

Where do you see yourself in say a year's time; still with this man?. This is your life going forward too. His mother is indeed toxic.

Re this comment:-
"I was just trying to explain above that i often initiated trips to see her as I wanted us to be a happy family - all of us."

Again this will never happen because he is not all that bothered and besides which she does not want it. You have your own reasons for wanting to initiate such trips in the first place; examine those far more closely. His mother would have acted the self same regardless of whom your man (and he is also a part of the problem here no two ways about it) got together with. It is NOT your fault she is the ways she is; you did not cause her to act like that. That rot started long before you came on the scene.

I also unfortunately think that he is and will be far more afraid of his mother in terms of "upsetting her" than he ever would be of any potential upset on your part. He is in what is known as "FOG" with regards to her - fear, obligation, guilt.

You have to decide ultimately whether this is worth putting up with at all because this dynamic they have will not alter.

I think you should put the onus on your DP to choose how he spends his time and how she treats you. Does he want to be a Mummy's boy, riddled with FOG, or does he want to be a grown man with his own life? (Do NOT be sidetracked by the counterclaim that you are asking him to choose between MIL and you. You are not - you are willing to be polite and nice to MIL as far as a distant relationship is concerned, but you are not willing to be put second to her at all times or to put up with her crap behaviour. If he can't stop doing this or stand up for you against her, be prepared to leave).

I think he will probably find standing up to her extremely difficult and you may need to consider some professional help e.g. counselling to see him through it. However, it can be done - there is light at the end of that tunnel, provided you are both prepared to work at it.

Thanks again for the responses.

The problem I have is that DP does not seem to appreciate that how she behaves is extremely odd and damaging to the people around her. This worries me because I sometimes wonder if he thinks this behaviour is ok.

If I mention anything negative about her, his automatic response is 'Here we go, sat somethng bad about my mum again.'

I just wish he could see that:

a). despite the fact that i cant deny i think she is a very odd person and not very nice a lot of the time, I still want to do the best for her and care for her because she is an extension of my family (in my eyes)

and

b). i only want him to stand up to her to for the sake of all of us involved - me, my DP, MIL and my own family.

She never thanke dme for the present I gave her for her bday, (which took me a long time to choose), and the same for the xmas present I gave her - nothing. I did mention this to my DP but his response is that she is 'just like that,' and if I push the matter he will just become defensive. I fthat were my parent, I would address is and ask why they hadnt thanked my DP for a gift.

I have asked him in the past to say something to her about the gifts, her comments about me and to me etc, but he is adamant he doesnt want to. I realise this is stressful for him and not a nice situation, but it doesn't need to be nasty - he just needs to let her know in a clam way that he doesnt find some of the things she does and says acceptable. Why cant he do that.

Oh god - yep, you have a problem.

Attila is spot on. You are never going to have the "happy family" thing with her. It has to be a 2 way hing and, for whatever reason, she does not want to engage.

I don't want to upset you, but I am going to be blunt. She is taking your niceness and turning it by being bloody nasty. She wants to drive you away. I cannot see any other explanation for this I'm afraid. She does not want you in the scene. Her comments about your text message (which was a lovely gesture btw) were pathetic.

Think you've probably got beyond the "being nice regardless" stage. Try not to overtly criticise her in front of DP - he is probably deep in FOG still and emerging can be a slow process. But you do need to stand firm. Do not change your plans for her. He needs to realise that you need him, and if your relationship is going to work, that he can't keep running off to mummy.

With regards to your interactions with mil, continue to be polite etc but don't put yourself out. There are only so many times you can bash your head against that brick wall before it hurts and you knock yourself out.

X post

Might be worth changing tack.

Instead of saying "she has done this and I'm upset", you could try "this is how I feel, how can I make things better with her".

Now it may be a bit manipulative, and you don't necessarily have to act on what he says, but it may make him stop and realise that you do want a relationship with this woman and that you're asking him how you can achieve it. It will also highlight (probably quite dramatically) how you want to make an effort but that she doesn't.

I think it's important to recognise two things that pull in opposite directions

1. There is a huge difference between the mild course that you are requesting (that he intervenes and moderates the worst of her behaviour) and asking him to choose between the pair of you, or simply slagging her off. It's very important that you don't let him polarise this into you vs her, because that's categorically not what you're asking, and places you in the wrong for the purpose of letting him wriggle out of his responsibilities

1. FOG is very difficult for men in particular to deal with, and it's important that you realise how terrifying your request will be for him to implement, and give him the support that he needs. Talking about how you deal with this together, in a way that improves the relationship rather than making it worse may help. This means letting go of the little things (not saying thank you is rude, but not exactly a priority) and focusing on the bigger ones, e.g. pushing back at the unreasonable demands so that you have more time together (e.g. she needs to hire a decorator, rather than expecting him to do it for her!)

I think i am scared to give him an ultimatum like that when something crops up, for various reasons. Firstly, I'm scared he woudnt stand up for me, secondly I'm scared that he wouldnt stand up for us as a couple (ie tell her we need weekends to ourselves as it is the only time we have together), and lastly, I genuinyl dont want to upset him - he is clearly hurt by the his parents' divorce and as a result quite clearly hates any form of confrontation.

Th ething I dont understand is that why does this need to be a conforntation? why cant he just say 'look mum, ive got other priorities here and whilst we want to be there for you and help you as much as possible, you need to start treating my dp with respect and understanding when we have other commitments.' or words to that effect. to me, that's not confrontation, that's a conversation adult to adult.

"I have asked him in the past to say something to her about the gifts, her comments about me and to me etc, but he is adamant he doesnt want to. I realise this is stressful for him and not a nice situation, but it doesn't need to be nasty - he just needs to let her know in a clam way that he doesnt find some of the things she does and says acceptable. Why cant he do that".

I do feel for you but I think you are onto a losing battle here.

The first sentence here may well become the kiss of death for your whole relationship; it can become that much of a deal breaker if he cannot or will not stand up for his own self here and defend his choice of partner. Have you asked him exactly why he does not want to speak up and defend you, after all you are together?.

As I stated before he would much rather you all get along so that he does not have to deal with any of this. At present he both cannot and will not deal with his mother so it has become your problem. He is also the problem as well as she but by not acting he is also hurting his own self here. He is also in a fear, obligation and guilt state here with regards to her and that has been within him for many, many years. It is a state he may never fully overcome. She will always be in the background grinding away.

ohfourfoxache I have tried that many times and genuinely followed through his advice - hence the messaging, the buying her nice gifts, including her in lunches at weekend etc etc. nothing works.

It upsets me that she paints a picture of me to DP as a clingy, needy person (her exact words). her version of being needy is my version of having a successful realtionship - where you work as a team and have regular contact and plans for the future. essentailly, evertyhing the has been unable to manage with friends, let alone a DP.

shovetheholly the decorator thing is exactly what i am worried about. this is how it will go:

DP: Mum wants me to spend a couple of weekends at hers decorating the new place

Me: That will take up an entire weekend, couldnt we visit her for the day and she get someone to do the decorating?

DP: I'm her son, it's my job to do that, I'm not just leaving her to sort it out.

Me: That means we will have no private time together for a 2 or 3 weeks, which is a lot when you work abroad so much as it is.

DP: Mum cant afford a decorator.

Me: But your mum just bought a more expensive house than the one she sold

DP: Exactly.

I am dreading all this cropping up, just becasue I know they will both turn it one me...I will be the unreasonbale one, the one stopping a mother having help from her son, being selfish etc etc. I know for a factmy paretns wouldnt ask that of me on my weekends, when I lived 200 miles from them and only saw my DP for one full day a week. AIBU?

Sounds a bit radical but... RUN FOR THE HILLS!
Seriously.
This will only get worse.
If you get married there will be nightmares and compromises all over the place for your wedding.
Can you imagine when kids come along.
Your DP is just never going to 'get it'
I'd get out now.
You see sooooo many posts here regarding awful MIL and weddings and kids and you could easily avoid all that.
Proceed at your own risk!

Bloody hell

So you discuss ways forward with him, include her in plans, do nice things for her at his suggestion and she still sticks the knife in?

Then on top of it all, he won't stick up for you?

Out of interest, how old is he Annabel? DH was 21 when we got together, but it was only when he reached about 27/28 that he even began to realise what mil and fil are like.

This is not what you want to hear, but I'm with Hellsbells on this one.

You can detach yourself from your mil in many ways. Remember, it's his mum. He's allowing you to be the buffer between him and a strange, difficult woman. This is classic behaviour when somebody has grown up with a woman such as your mil as their mother.

He can buy and hand over her birthday/Christmas gifts - I bet he's never chosen, wrapped and handed over the presents from the two of you to your parents ?

He can phone and make arrangements to see her, you don't always have to go. From what you say she'd rather you weren't there anyway.

If she makes unreasonable requests to join you when it should just be the two of you, he tells her "no" and why.

Basically, you have to admit defeat as regards having a relationship with her. It is very sad, you sound caring and well-adjusted and are reasonable to expect a decent relationship with a potential mil. Unfortunately, the train you've boarded has arrived at Batshit Central and nothing you do can change that.

It's truly shocking that people like her exist, and even more so that somebody you love and who you believe loves you cannot see what she is like. But he can't, and very likely won't.

Believe me, the pain of her behaviour towards you will pale into insignificance with the pain of your dp not supporting you when he should. He won't even see that he's not. He will just hear your negative comments and see you as the problem.

You definitely shouldn't just "shut up" because your mil thread seems tame compared to others. I actually think she sounds as awful as many of the others.

You don't own a property with him yet, you're not married and have no children. There are many men out there with whom you could have all of these things, without the life-sucking curse of a mil like your dp's.

I know you love him, and think that maybe you're the one to change/help him and his mother's position. That person doesn't exist. You've only got one life, I wouldn't knowingly choose this one.

Sorry to sound so miserable about it, but am currently wearing the been there, done that T-shirt !!

You need to carefully consider your own future within this because it frankly is looking pretty much bleak. This is your life going forward with her in it.

His mother is basically projecting her own insecurities onto her son; she is really the clingy needy person in all this here and his role in her mind is to facilitate all her needs.

He is so enmeshed with his mother that he may well never be able to break free of her overriding influence. He also allows himself to be so influenced because of her conditioning him. He will also not confront her because he is afraid of her, far more so than he would ever be of your good self. He is also still seeking her approval on some innate level as well, confronting her will involve a loss of approval (approval she would never give him).

Thanks again everyone.

I am unsure what you say about him wanting her approval?

If I asked my DP whether he felt he had his mum's approval, he would definitely say yes. And from the outside, she thinks he has a great job (he does), and seems proud of him, albeit in quite a cold and stilted way, so I oo would say he has her approval.

But then again, he does alwayas seem to never want to upset her or cause an issue, even when objectively she has clearly behaved horribly.

"An enmeshed relationship between a parent and child may look like this. His mum is a narcissist, while the son is codependent, “the person who lives to give.” Mum knows that her son is the only one who will listen to her and help her. The son is afraid of standing up to his mum, and she exploits his caregiving".

Your man may well be serving a codependent role in the relationship with his mother. At the very least it is certainly one dysfunctional mess of a dynamic that you will not yourself be able to alter.

That last sentence is certainly true of your man and his mother here.