International marriage and divorce / am i a total bitch?

[TeriyakiChick]

I guess I will be greeted with a torrent of abuse, as I am the adulterer in my marriage, but also the wife and mother, and the one who wishes to divorce!

I am married with 3 kids to a Japanese man. A man I was seeing, but not in love with, while living in Japan. A brief history of our marriage - it was an unloving visa formality after I became pregnant accidentally during the dying throes of our relationship back there. Followed by 2 further children as i tried to 'make the best of' the situation I found myself in, having 'imported' this foreign husband to the UK, half against my will, but respectful of his rights as the father, and just going with the flow....12 years on, I've had enough of being mummy to him. Our language barrier is still huge, he has never adjusted to life here, he was a very absent and unengaged father for many years, he depends on me for every little thing, he is clinging, needy and controlling, yet obsessively difficult to pin down for childcare arrangements. I find him plain irritating. But we live in a house paid for by his parents, largely, have 3 lovely kids, and a good group of friends.
Since turning 40 it's like the scales have fallen from my eyes and I realise I cannot bear to spend the rest of my life with this man!
I've repeatedly voiced my frustration and unhappiness over the 12 years of having kids with him, but he always blackmailed me by saying he'd return to Japan if we split up, and I felt bad at the prospect of completely depriving the kids of their father, and alarmed at 100% solo parenting with no 'daddy weekends', so stayed put in the marriage.
A year ago I threw my toys out of the pram and told him I want to split and I don't care if he does go back to Japan, I can manage by myself! He reacted with utter denial and disbelief and refusal to listen, clinging on like a limpet and writing my feelings off as temporary and hormonal. Until I stupidly admitted I'd had an affair, in an attempt to get him to take me seriously.
NOW there's no going back, our relationship is poisoned and the trust will never return. Also his behaviour in telling the kids things and involving them since we started talking divorce is INEXCUSABLE...so the anger is piling up!

Now he is depressed and doesn't know where to turn, playing the 'poor me' card, saying he can't survive in this country outside of our marriage, but can't return to Japan as I've trapped him with these lovely kids he suddenly can't be a minute without ( having not been that bothered the first 11 years!).

He says he is prepared to forgive and forget everything, if we can just stay together. Sometimes slipping back into unhappy comfort seems preferable to the massive task of re-organising both my and HIS life. If we go ahead with the split EVERYTHING is coming from and organised by me!!

My Question Is ... Ladies and Gentlemen.. DIVORCE - Is it worth upending our lives, moving into rental accommodation, causing the kids upheaval and trauma, having to organise HIS entire new life as well as my own...in return for FREEDOM FROM IRRITATION and total smothering? What would you do? What if he goes back to Japan - experiences of international divorce on kids? NB we are both low income but my job is full time and inflexible. Buying new properties after we sell this place is not an option.

I can only share my own experience, as a child of an unhappy marriage between two people of different nationalities.

I grew up in an unhappy household, my mum held on to the marriage for years I think because she didn't want to split up the family. They argued constantly. When she finally asked my father to leave, it was such a relief. He eventually ended up moving back to the country he was born in.

I know you think you're doing your kids a favour by keeping their father in the picture, but please believe me when I say living in an unhappy atmosphere is far more damaging. It has affected my own relationships in adulthood and I gave received extensive counselling for this.

Ultimately if you split it's up to your partner if he chooses to remain around or not, so do not feel guilty if he is threatening to take off back home, it is HIS choice to make.

I actually have a much better relationship with my dad now (even though he lives a 10 hour flight away) than I did when he was living in our house. He is remarried and a much happier person than I ever knew growing up.

Hope that helps.

Why on earth would you have to sort out his new life?

I'll pass over your affair with just a .

If you no longer love him you owe it to BOTH of you to split up. Organize yourself and the children to new accommodation. Since it appears that his parents are either paying or paid for the house, they can sort him out. Or he can finally grow up. It's amazing how someone can finally stand on their own when they really have to!

If he goes back to Japan, can you be sure he won't take the children with him? See a solicitor who specialized in international custody law.

Are you sure you're not rewriting history a bit here

You had two children just because..? And having a house bought for you... I don't know, something's not right here.

Agree with pond. You need advice from a solicitor.

You definitely need to divorce but can you not see that you are reaping what you have sown and brought children into an already unfavourable situation that appears, from your OP, for selfish reasons? You will all be happier apart. I feel a bit sorry for your 'D'H and your DC's unless I am missing something.

You sound utterly dismissive of him, and your kids. Not splitting up with someone you despise because you can't offload your kids for "daddy weekends" is very, very odd.

TBH all this 'going with the flow' hasn't really worked, has it.

It might just be the tone of your writing is slightly odd but it sounds like you are still thinking about going with the flow because the thought of divorcing is too disruptive.

Yet you are in what sounds like a terrible relationship. For the sake of your children you should move out with your dc and start again. Your relationship is damaging to them.

Personally I feel you need therapy to start connecting with your feelings, you seem somewhat disconnected from the reality of it?

Again I could be wrong, it could be the tone if your writing.

Well, it is a peculiar situation and a big mistake to have married and then had children with someone whom you definitely did not love from the outset - but no different to a lot of arranged marriages.

Did you actually have an affair? It is ambiguous in your post whether you did or not.

You clearly don't want to remain married. I suggest that you see a solicitor to clarify your housing situation and then use a website to work out the kind of tax credits etc you would be entitled to as a single parent. You might have some rights to remain in the home.

I appreciate my post may have sounded dismissive towards my husband, and I very much DO understand GelfBride's comment about 'reaping what I have sown' - It WAS pure folly to stick my head in the sand and have further children with my husband, all the whole damping down my true feelings. Therapy back then would have helped - now I have reconnected and acknowledged my feelings I think it's maybe an unnecessary expense.
I am very much aware that my husband is stuck between a rock and a hard place and feel absolutely terrible at the position I've put him in - torn between wanting to return to his country and wanting to stay near his kids. But his panic and doom-mongering and inability to envisage a future where we are living separately and co-parenting is making progress very difficult. He is so panicked and depressed that I feel like a complete evil harpy insisting we continue with the separation. Yet as you all point out - how could continuing to be married to someone who despises him be good for any of us, especially the children? I would like him to have counselling to build up his confidence in being able to go it alone but he refuses as it's too expensive. I don't know which way to turn now.
I have offered to move out leaving him in the family home which is mainly his anyway, but he says he can't bear to stay there without me. But if I suggest that he moves out and I remain in the family home he says I can't stay there without him, as it mainly 'belongs' to his parents, so we need to sell it to release their money back to them. We have now agreed in principle to selling the house, returning his family's investment to them, and both of us moving into rental accommodation, helped by tax credits and some housing benefit.
It's not the best way for the kids, I'd like them to have the continuity of a few days a week in the home they've grown up in - but it seems there is no other option.

You have to split ut from this man. You sound so unhappy. Go to a solicitor and start making plans. Find out what to do about the house legally. Get proper advice. It sounds like there is a lot of vague conversations going on now. Start being more clear and proactive.

What he does is up to him. He's an adult and can plan his life himself.

You need to see a solicitor. If you are in the UK, you divorce in the UK. It's not an international divorce, unless he gets in first and files from Japan. If he chooses to return to Japan, you can decide between you how to handle child access, calls etc. you will not be married but he is still the dc father.

To not divorce because of not being able to offload the dc at weekends is a bit odd tbh. do you have a lover and want to see him these weekends?

Who owns the house? And why do you think you have to manage his life - divorce means you don't have to do that and it's no concern of yours, except how it affects the dc/ financial maintenance.

Yes i think you might find yourself able to make a better life for your children and for you if you are less corrosively unhappy. I think there is likely to be quite a long period of pain and difficulty before that, but the end result is certainly likely to be worth it for you, and quite probably for your children as well.

Since your husband is so unhappy as well it seems that it has become impossible for him to plan another life for himself. And it sounds as if that's not his strength anyway. Suggest that he gets on the waiting list for NHS counselling and then leave it to him. I'd also say this for you - there usually IS a small amount of NHS provision out there, the wait will be extensive but hey, you're going to be a year older anyway, you might as well be a year older with some therapy.

if I were you I would decide what plan would suit your children best and put that into action. From the past, your husband will go along with this. I would agree with you that as far as possible, staying in the house they know could well help them through a difficult period of adjustment.

Is there any reason why you can't take a mortgage out and return at least some of the investment that way while remaining in the house? Or draw up a legal agreement so that his family own the house while you/he have a life interest in it? I think you need serious legal advice before doing this but I wonder if it's an option.

I feel a bit sorry for your husband, because you married him despite not loving him, had two more children (so no clue to him that you weren't into the marriage) had an affair and are exasperated with his behaviour such as finding it hard to settle in the UK! It can be incredibly hard to leave behind friends and family, I get the horrible feeling that he did the 'right thing' and has paid a high price for it himself.

That said, there's no point crying over spilt milk and it's definitely better to split up. Get legal advice on what to do with the house. He will be devastated, this is not his home and he now has to choose between going home (possibly to remain sane, certainly to get support) or staying in a country he doesn't really like to see his children. But that shouldn't stop you as this is clearly terminal and it is better done now, giving him longer to rebuild/find someone else/get access arrangements etc. He only feels dependent, but when push comes to shove, he may do just fine here or move back.

I have a friend who did this to a partner who came over to live in the UK, he was devastated when she left, didn't think he could stay, was only here because of her etc. A few years on, he was happily settled down with someone else and she was the one who found it difficult to find a nice partner- I think she expected him to pine/waste away/be dependent for ever but of course, whatever people say, this isn't what has happened and he may be a nice partner for someone, just not you.

I think you will get more help from us if you clarify the affair situation.

He is an adult, and he is responsible for his own happiness. However, saying that, I think you need to behave with kindness. You seem to have taken very little care for his wellbeing so far.

(I still suspect you are rewriting history here).

The affair situation is irrelevant, this marriage is not working and never has.

I would have thought it would be more sensible financially for him to man up and keep the house rather than fund two rented flats, and it would give the children some continuity.

You do have to get divorced OP, you can't carry on like this, it's not good for the children. As a teen I was around friends' parents whose marriages were not working and it was such a relief for everyone when they split up.

Speaking as someone who asked my H to leave in my home country and then had the situation reversed so I am now in your H's position, I can say that your "poor me" card comment was completely unfair. It is terrifying and very depressing to face the prospect of raising your kids in a country you do not want to be in, without your family, without a partner, doing it all in a foreign language and without the far better life you could offer them in the place you want to be.
But in this situation one of you is going to have to bear the full pain of it all. Looks like it's going to be him. He needs all the support he can get. You both do.
As to the wwyd question you asked.... well what I did was put my kids first. They (well mostly one of them) wanted to go back to live in their country of birth, which is where their father is from. And a year down the line, with 99% of the conflict removed, the vast improvements in that DC's behaviour have shown my decision to be right. However much I might dislike their father's attitude and behaviour, in these international situations it is the children's future that has to come first.
And the self-flagellation that goes with announcing an affair on Mumsnet is just confusing the issue here. What's done is done. Just don't let present or future lovers be a factor in your decisions. Get your kids settled first.

The affair situation is irrelevant, this marriage is not working and never has.

I think that's fine so long as next time a woman is on here saying something like, "my husband says it's over. He had an affair and says he never loved me. We have three kids and live in his home country. What on earth do I do?".

Saying that, I agree the affair shouldn't be dissected, but now it's been alluded to, posters will be more helpful if she clarifies what she meant.

I think that's fine so long as next time a woman is on here saying something like, "my husband says it's over. He had an affair and says he never loved me. We have three kids and live in his home country. What on earth do I do?"

Next time then what?

You want a blanket policy for all posters?

I don't see that the details of the affair are relevant. The OP has obviously made some poor choices in the past, but what's done is done and she doesn't have to be punished for the past by staying in a miserable relationship forever.

Also, I'm with Twinklestein. There are no blanket rules for giving advice. We all write what we think in the situation and the OP can take it or leave it as she wishes. This is the second time recently I've seen a poster try to control what other posters are writing. It really isn't necessary.

Sorry, got distracted. I think it would be hypocritical to tell other posters that their partner's historic affairs are irrelevant.

I met my ex in his country, had DD there. Then all three of us moved to the UK (where I am from), after about a year we split up. A year later I moved to another country with DD, he stayed in the UK. Initially he was on a student visa and then on a work visa. He is now in his country DD and I are in yet another country.
DD and he talk to each other most days on Skype if possible and they have a good relationship. He comes here about once a year and we go there about once a year. It is only in the last couple of years this has really worked but I think this is also due to his relationship finishing.

It works for us.

What is your husband's visa situation and how will that be affected if you divorce?
How old are your children?

My Dm didn't want me to have an international marriage - not because they have less chance of working out than other kinds of course, but because if they don't work out, they can be a massive, massive fuck up for everyone.

Of course, I went ahead. And the marriage broke down.

You are not being a total bitch to end a relationship that is not working - really, you must get it into your head, that it is everyone's right to chose who they want to marry or stay married too. However, how you go about splitting does tell about character - and I don't think you are going about this the best way - not only to his detriment but your detriment too. Saying you never loved him, yet had three children(!) having an (ongoing) affair, is not fair. You know that.

You should have split a year ago - this relationship is not working. He is saying he'll go back to his country - well, of course, he is: his parents are there, his family are there, his support network are there, he must quite literally feel lost at sea.

The first year of my split from ex DH was hell. Like yours, he was depressed, all over the place, didn't know whether to stay or go. I moved out the house into rented accommodation, we agreed shared custody. Unless you want to feel trapped for the next 40 years, it sounds like you have to do this. Do it, but do it kindly.

PM me if you like. I well remember how desperate I felt.

Affair or not, the question here is how to move forward, divorce and live in future.

Does he work? Why can't he just stay here if he loves his children?