International marriage and divorce / am i a total bitch?

[TeriyakiChick]

I guess I will be greeted with a torrent of abuse, as I am the adulterer in my marriage, but also the wife and mother, and the one who wishes to divorce!

I am married with 3 kids to a Japanese man. A man I was seeing, but not in love with, while living in Japan. A brief history of our marriage - it was an unloving visa formality after I became pregnant accidentally during the dying throes of our relationship back there. Followed by 2 further children as i tried to 'make the best of' the situation I found myself in, having 'imported' this foreign husband to the UK, half against my will, but respectful of his rights as the father, and just going with the flow....12 years on, I've had enough of being mummy to him. Our language barrier is still huge, he has never adjusted to life here, he was a very absent and unengaged father for many years, he depends on me for every little thing, he is clinging, needy and controlling, yet obsessively difficult to pin down for childcare arrangements. I find him plain irritating. But we live in a house paid for by his parents, largely, have 3 lovely kids, and a good group of friends.
Since turning 40 it's like the scales have fallen from my eyes and I realise I cannot bear to spend the rest of my life with this man!
I've repeatedly voiced my frustration and unhappiness over the 12 years of having kids with him, but he always blackmailed me by saying he'd return to Japan if we split up, and I felt bad at the prospect of completely depriving the kids of their father, and alarmed at 100% solo parenting with no 'daddy weekends', so stayed put in the marriage.
A year ago I threw my toys out of the pram and told him I want to split and I don't care if he does go back to Japan, I can manage by myself! He reacted with utter denial and disbelief and refusal to listen, clinging on like a limpet and writing my feelings off as temporary and hormonal. Until I stupidly admitted I'd had an affair, in an attempt to get him to take me seriously.
NOW there's no going back, our relationship is poisoned and the trust will never return. Also his behaviour in telling the kids things and involving them since we started talking divorce is INEXCUSABLE...so the anger is piling up!

Now he is depressed and doesn't know where to turn, playing the 'poor me' card, saying he can't survive in this country outside of our marriage, but can't return to Japan as I've trapped him with these lovely kids he suddenly can't be a minute without ( having not been that bothered the first 11 years!).

He says he is prepared to forgive and forget everything, if we can just stay together. Sometimes slipping back into unhappy comfort seems preferable to the massive task of re-organising both my and HIS life. If we go ahead with the split EVERYTHING is coming from and organised by me!!

My Question Is ... Ladies and Gentlemen.. DIVORCE - Is it worth upending our lives, moving into rental accommodation, causing the kids upheaval and trauma, having to organise HIS entire new life as well as my own...in return for FREEDOM FROM IRRITATION and total smothering? What would you do? What if he goes back to Japan - experiences of international divorce on kids? NB we are both low income but my job is full time and inflexible. Buying new properties after we sell this place is not an option.

Indeed - and there are quite a number of MNers who are in the OP's DH's situation - living in their H's country of origin, the marriage breaks down and they are trapped far from family and friends because the children have settled lives in that country and/or the other spouse won't give permission for them to be taken to live elsewhere. That is the risk of an international marriage, and OP's DH has the same dilemma faced by other MNers (despite apparently being somewhat less attached to his children).

What is in the best interests of the children? I would say:

• remaining in the country they grew up in
• having a happy and relaxed home life.

They don't need continuity with the existing house if the OP's DH feels it necessary to make a point over it, it's clearly just a tactic to get OP to give up on her plan to divorce.

I suspect he will end up going back to Japan, and blaming OP, but those are his choices.

They don't need continuity with the existing house if the OP's DH feels it necessary to make a point over it,

Alternatively, he may need to release some of the cash in order to afford two smaller households.

I know the OP needs happiness, and divorce is the right thing, but I have so much sympathy for the husband. I imagine being in Japan and the huge cultural differences, not speaking the language, my only friend a cheating spouse and trapped between choosing my children or Everything Else that is familiar, safe and supportive.

Dear Teriyaki,

You are not the first to have more children while in a 'well you might as well get married now situation'.
Neither are you the first to stay in a marriage because you are petrified of being a single parent.

Nor are you the first or the last to have had an affair due to being frustrated.

There is absolutely nothing 'verwerflich' about this situation. People mess up.

Make your children a priority in this decision. Blackmail is disgusting. You don't want to hear from them in 20 years that they would much have preferred you to leave.

Good luck.

I'm not sure if saying "I will return to my home country" is blackmail. Whatever it is, the only answer would surely be, "oh I'm sorry to hear that but that's your choice"

Yes, I'm not unsympathetic to the DH - like many MNers he is trapped far from home in a difficult situation. He will either have to make the best of it, as they do, or sod off, as they typically do not. Given his lack of interest in the children to date, I suspect the latter.

The selling the house thing is, I think a red herring - as the equity belongs to his parents. Admittedly they might agree to let him retain a good share to fund his own household but OP and her DH are planning to go into rented accommodation. He could stay there but is choosing not to.

I suspect if he is not near a Japanese ex-pat community that's what he should focus on (if he does decide to stay in the UK) to give him some support, much as I imagine the OP would if the geography were reversed.

John, I do think of it as blackmail. He has never being much interested in the kids for the first eleven (!!!) years; according to OP.
And since one of the reasons she stayed in the marriage was her fear of being a single parent (not silly, imo) his 'I will go back to my country' amounts very much to blackmail.

Otherwise a decent 'I'm really sorry you feel this way. We will have to see if I can stay here or if we have to find a way for the kids to visit see me in my home country' is very much possible.

I was on the husband's side of such a situation, including the affair! I am not saying what I am lightly, believe me. At no point would I have allowed my exH to feel he 'imported' me and has to stick it out. He ran off with his affair and I made the best of my new life. Regardless of what I feel, I know it was my choice as an adult to emigrate to be with him. My children did not choose it. I did.
The truth is we are born to be happy. Adversity, if handled with love and support, helps us find our happiness.
Her children will overcome this if both parents handle it responsibly.

Hmm, yes, you're right. It depends how its said.

The important thing was the Ops reaction -
I felt bad at the prospect of completely depriving the kids of their father, and alarmed at 100% solo parenting with no 'daddy weekends', so stayed put in the marriage.
I hope she will feel strong enough to tell him that's his decision to make.

OP, you'll be ok.

Gosh I was right about being perceived as a bitch! The affair was brief and 3 years ago. It is only pertinent in that I told him about it in an attempt to make him realise I was seriously fed up. Now bitterly regret mentioning it of course as it has added another layer of fucked up-ness to our situation.
The DCs are 13 ,10 and 6.
When I talked to a solicitor they suggested a ' Mesher agreement' was the way to go, whereby one of us remains in the house until the children are grown and then the house is sold and proceeds split according to what was previously agreed. Husband doesn't want to stay in the house but doesn't want me to, either, since he perceives this as me 'winning'. The solicitor also said that according to British law it makes no difference who put what in to the house, it would be divided up equally if sold. This made husband hit the roof and accuse me of trying to get his family's money. So I really have no interest in trying to 'claim' what I could be legally entitled to as that will cause huge unpleasantness. It's me that wants out, and I don't want to be beholden to his family. Thus moving to rental needs to be the path I take.

Sounds like moving out is the best thing for you to do. Whether he stays there or not is his choice.

You need to do what is best for you and the children. Your H needs to make his own decisions. No more talking 'what ifs' or 'what will you dos'. Your children are old enough to understand divorce (maybe not the 6 yr old) and I'll bet they have some divorced parents in their circle of friends. As long as you reassure them that it's nothing they did, they'll be fine. I wouldn't be surprised if the eldest says he/she knew it was coming.

So, find your rental, arrange your finances, and go. The rest can be sorted afterwards.

Thanks for all the comments, folks, yes knightofswords my words about the 'poor me' card were harsh, borne of frustration, and I do really appreciate the difficulty of his situation, which is why we have muddled along for so long in a dysfunctional manner!
To be honest compared with the abusive/controlling/repeat cheating partner threads on here I feel like a fraud!
JohnFarleys Ruskin it is heartening to be reminded that it is everyone's right to choose who they stay married to! Also cheering to hear of other international daddying arrangements that work - I don't think it will come to that, actually. I think he'll stay here. He has become very close to the kids the past 7 months as we have been semi-separated into mummy days and daddy days.

Hi,
My STBHX is Japanese.

Of course, you need to split up, there is no doubt about that.

If your H has "threatened" to return to Japan, then you should just go ahead and let him do that. He probably should return to Japan to recover from his depression.
But your last post suggests he is suddenly making a big effort and will probably stay here in the UK.
Either way, you can work it out. Skype, holidays etc.

His dig at you wanting to "claim the family money" is really wrong and below the belt. In Japan, you would be entitled to a pay out, although it has to be said that generally upon divorce there is a clean split, the father pays no maintenance and doesn't bother with his children.

I can imagine he has not integrated much into British society. Does he not work in the UK? It is difficult for Japanese people to get jobs in Japan after living abroad for a long time because employers there don't look favourably upon it. But he sounds like he's from a comfortable family who can buoy him upon his return.

Good Luck

I think it would be unwise to give up on the idea of some division of the assets. A Mesher order is a good idea and not unreasonable.

Your income is low and without some form of home ownership you will be literally dependent on private landlords for years to come. No options of using those assets in the future eg remortgaging to pay university fees for your children. He might be upset and angry now, but deciding to give up on any share of the marital home will have ramifications for the remainder of your adult life.

Can he read English text? There are some good leaflets around online which explain what is usual on divorce.

He works here, self employed, but low income, when I met him in Japan he was a musician (!!) and just about held body & soul together on a shoestring budget. TBH if he returned to Japan he'd never find employment within the traditional Japanese world of salarymen! He'd probably use some of his parents money to start some small business.
The main problem for him here is that he has never bothered to study English and struggles with forms, telephone calls, large group conversations, and most of all communications with his own children, who really would only become bilingual if we went to live in Japan rather than just visiting once a year for two weeks. I used to take them to a Japanese kids club but I was the only non-Japanese parent there - when I asked him to take them he said he was too busy! I was having Japanese lessons too, but he moaned about the expense so I stopped... His loss!
Until this last year it was always me doing the bedtime stories etc every night so the kidsjust didn't get enough of him to reinforce the language.
It's too late for us to go and live in Japan now as eldest is at secondary school and I've ended up massively involved in running my family's business...plus I no longer think it's worth making the effort...!

maybe doctor - could you link to any leaflets which you think are good at explaining what is usual on divorce - I have been looking for that sort of thing myself and haven't found anything great ( not sure how to do links) apart from the gov.uk website which is very clear on the whole divorce process

Teriyaki - it is over, it is up to you husband now what relationship he has with his children...

Even if we did split the assets and I 'took' half his family's money, a mortgage advisor told me I will have difficulty getting a mortgage based on a single income of less than 14000 p.a.

I find it hard to sympathise with someone who doesn't bother to learn the language of their resident country that their children speak. That would drive me round the twist.

Maybe not 'taking' the assets now, but a mesher order would mean that they would be divided at some point in the future, at which point you could buy a place for retirement. Also, by the time your children reach 18 his family situation might be different and not so emotive.

It's not just you in the picture, it's also your children. They are part of your husband's family, so I would be think carefully about making a huge sacrifice on their behalf because you feel guilty that the marriage didn't work out.

I understand that you feel like you made some bad choices but he made some too.

Social housing?
Do you fall under any key worker schemes?

You keeping the house until the last child is 18 and then a split in his favour would seem to be fair.