Instigating/rejecting

[Creeturefeeture]

Hi all
Can I get some idea about what’s normal in regards to this (although, of course, I understand that people are different)?
How often do you reject an advance for sex? How often do you instigate it? There’s no background to this other than I think my relationship is slowly degrading with these two factors being identified as part of the reason. Thanks!

Erm... Reject sex maybe twice a year. Dunno who instigates as it's a given we are going to have sex at any opportunity to. But I'd say it's probs 50/50. Although he always instigates in the morning as he wakes up first I guess.

It's probably not about how often you reject or instigate and mroe about one or other of you feeling rejected and wanting the other to instigate more so you don't. Which is about worrying about whether or not you are loved/wanted. Do you genuinely want to have sex with each other??

But FWIW with my current dp I can only think that I outright rejected sex once because I didn't think it was practically feasible in the location we were in (!) and we instigate a fairly even amount like pp. I think both of us are up for it most of the time so it's not something I think about in terms of who starts it off...

With exh it was just an uncomfortable nightmare I used to always instigate because I was trying to fix something dead, and he rejected me often, then I stopped doing that for obvious reasons, so he instigated about once a month usually from nowhere so I was not even in a remote place to consider it, and I often rejected him then because quite simply, I didn't want to anymore.

I rarely get the opportunity to 'instigate' sex because my DP would have it every night and every morning if he could. I do reject on a regular basis. I love him dearly but our sex drives are seriously mismatched and yes it does cause a problem. I think the only reason it hasn't impacted too much on our relationship is because we don't live together.... as far as 'what's normal' however - I don't think it's something that can be defined in this way? Everyone's circumstances are different OP.

I don't think the numbers are important either. If you know someone really well and you've been together quite a long time, you should be at the stage where you can judge each other's mood reasonably accurately & sex happens almost 'organically' rather than it being a matter of one person suggesting the idea and the other saying yes or no. If the mood is being judged wrong too often, the advances are clumsy and the result is rejection, that's the area to address because it probably means you're not communicating well as a couple

thanks all so far. much appreciated.

In a perfect world both partners would instigate roughly the same, and reject advance roughly the same. They would then feel they had an equal desire for sex.

Isn't the real issue when one partner (high libido one) is instigating frequently, and often getting rejected....and the other partner doesn't instigate back at another time when more in the mood.

For the high libido partner, they often want to instigate all the time (but don't) so when they do pluck up the courage too it's even more crushing to get rejected.

At some point the high-libido partner stops trying....or communicating their needs. The low-libido partner is secretly relieved at first because they think their partner is changing and doesn't need sex as often.

indeed-when in reality, they may just be subconsciously stifling/suppressing their own libido- which is what is happening in our case.

Yup. The high-libido person then 'sorts' themselves out as a habit. And goes to bed with no desire in the tank.

I positively encourage my partner to 'sort himself out' - he knows it's unreasonable to expect to DTD every night and every morning, day in and day out. dadtryinghisbest - the 'lower-libido' partner has a right to 'communicate their needs' too!

This is causing us huge problems at the moment, he is feeling unwanted and I am fed up of it all and the more we talk the worse it seems to get

It's an issue here too at the moment. I feel quite upset by it all to be honest.

Obviously the soln is genuine equal compromise. What I suggest happens over time is the compromise suits the low-libido partner most - who always gets sex when they want and rarely has to sort themselves out - while the high-libido partner 'sorts' themselves out more often than not...

It's not suiting me to feel in the wrong all the time, to see him upset. It's like trying to eat a big meal to please someone when you're not hungry .And I miss it too
And I'm happy to sort myself out if needed

The meal analogy is interesting. Assuming you love your partner, and don't have any issues with sex (being seen as dirty etc) then does not wanting sex equate to not liking sex? i.e. from the low-libido partner perspective does the unneeded act cause negatives other than the time and energy while DTD?

(A low-libido partner sorting themselves out is a double rejection - like self sabotaging the sexual relationship?)

Another random thought... regardless of who is the high/low libido partner...I think the woman controls the sexual relationship generally, and some women are not sensitive to this. Some men resent this at some point and disengage....either leading to depression like behaviours, or the opposite (being nasty or trying to control some other aspect of the relationship in some way). If the man feels the women is trying to respond in some way...then the resentment dissipates...

OVer the years I read a lot about mismatched libidos and I do agree that young kids kill it often on both sides, and that there are ups and downs and times when you kind of are out of sync in any good relationship, and some people naturally want it more than others. However, I am suspicious of the idea of it being just about libido, as though that is simply a chemical thing in isolation. Surely it's a barometer for other things: how close you are with your dp at other levels e.g. emotionally and intellectually. How deeply you want to share your spare time and precious moments of relaxation with them rather than flop on your own (e.g. after a shitty week and feeling exhausted, fooling around with dp is genuinely something I look forward to as a treat!). When those other things are missing, it's like trying to go from 0-100 in three seconds on a cold engine to think about 'initiating sex'. It's skipping all the warm-up and the engineering team's work in the pits before you go out on the track. (I am not sure why I've ended up on a motor racing analogy here).

This analysis is down to my personal baggage (being upfront): I am female, was the 'higher libido' partner in previous marriage, and felt over many years like a repulsive, unattractive human being (I'm not) and a freak for wanting sex, missing it, and being miserable without it. My point is I don't think it is just about the woman controlling it per se, it's about the higher-libido person always being more vulnerable to rejection, perhaps because this is their way of showing someone they care, this is their way of connecting with someone and feeling close to them and feeling loved back by them. It's not like that for everyone but it is for me. That doesn't mean it isn't hard for the other person, I realise you must always feel bad if you just don't want to give what the other person needs, but I feel there must be something more emotional underlying it.

Turned out in our case, after many years of head wrecking, reading around the subject, me actually considering a long term affair numerous times, but not doing it, and then me leaving (lack of sex among other reasons), that, as I feared, he simply wasn't attracted to me for most of the time we were together.

We've been together for 10 years and I can count on one hand the amount of times she has said no to sex and that was for legitimate reasons.
I'd find it depressing if DW was to say 'sort yourself out' before bed.

As for instigating, I tend to be direct and DW tends to be subtle. ie. coming out of the bath naked is her instigating.

arsenal, what would have been "not legitimate" reasons for her saying no?

Another random thought... regardless of who is the high/low libido partner...I think the woman controls the sexual relationship generally, and some women are not sensitive to this

Bollocks
If it's regardless of who is the high/low libido partner, then it's not the woman who controls the sexual relationship. There are often enough posts here from women saying that their advances are rejected. It's the partner with the lowest libido who, in a way, controls the sexual relationship, not women in general.

If the man feels the woman is trying to respond in some way...then the resentment dissipates...
It sounded like you were blaming women for being abused if they had lower libidos but didn't agree to sex to keep their man happy.

From personal experience, I tended to reject sex a lot towards the end of my relationship with exH. Mostly because the relationship itself was crap.
Curiously, he rejected it often enough when I was gagging for it in the early stages of pregnancy.

I'd say that if it looks like a relationship is degrading because of sex, it is actually more likely that the sex is a symptom and not a cause. But it's often easier to blame than other aspects.

Maybe something like 'I can't because I'm trying to stay a virgin'

Sixandtwothrees - I like your theory...

Lweji - responding to your two points:

1. To elaborate more on my suggestion; nice, well brought up men are conditioned to be very sensitive to the suggestion of coercement, sexual pressure etc etc and so tend to wait for unambiguous signals. If they instigate it might be very subtle, and they will be quick to withdraw if not met with a positive response. So when I say women generally control the sexual relationship this is what I'm referring to. This aspect is independent of who has the high libido. It's only a suggestion to aid the discussion, I'm looking to learn. I agree the lower libido partner also has a massive influence on the relationship. ( would suggest that a partnership where the women perceives herself to be the high libido partner, is more often than not with a 'man on strike' who has responded to historical frustrations by withdrawing...)

2. Not sure what you're on about? Given 1) above, then the women is in a position of power. Resentment would build if this power was perceived to being abused.

sixandtwothrees

Your second paragraph really speaks to me, I assure you you're not alone in feeling this way about sex with someone you love.

I've accepted that my partner doesn't see sex the same way I do and she has tried to understand how important it is to me - but she doesn't really 'get' it, and I have had to compromise so much of myself that my libido feels dead, and deep down so do I.

XH had a sensitive, subtle way of indicating his interest, which was by saying in a sneering tone "I suppose YOU wouldn't be interested".

Er, maybe subtle isn't the word I was looking for - perhaps sensitive wasn't the word either - it was something beginning with "s" anyway...

Petetheplumber

The point was that it's not the woman or women who are in control, it's the partner with the least libido.
Neither men nor women should pressure the other for sex.
And mismatches occur both ways.

Not sure what you mean by this "power" being "abused". Saying no because someone doesn't feel like sex is "abusing" that power?