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Original poster

Did you say all of the traditional marriage vows?

34 replies

WaitingForMe · 03/02/2015 21:48

When DH and I were planning our wedding (the second for both of us) I told him that I couldn't promise the full vows. In the end we did basic registry (love, honour and respect) then a fully DIY wedding for family where we wrote the vows we were willing to make.

This isn't a TAAT but that did make me think about this.

Basically I wasn't willing to be married to someone who was acting in a depressed manner but who refused to see a doctor, wasn't willing to be married to someone blasé about supporting his family and so forth.

(For the record, we've been married three years and I've supported us through him having a breakdown and him being fired for his attitude which turned out to be Graves Disease).

OP posts:
bloodygorgeous · 03/02/2015 21:57

I don't really understand your post to be honest..

Sorry things have been tough.

Do you mean you weren't sure about being with him or supporting him at the point of marrying so you omitted to say some vows??

If so I'm not sure that's the best way to enter a marriage.

Original poster
WaitingForMe · 03/02/2015 22:09

I was just curious. I've seen quite a few posts over the years where for richer for poorer or in sickness and in health get trotted out and wondered whether I was so unusual in not just going along with it.

Things are ok. I just wanted to say that it didn't mean I was uncommitted and would bail at any ill-health or redundancy.

Plenty of women don't take their husband's name. How many also make promises that are true to them?

OP posts:
RudyMentary · 03/02/2015 22:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bloodygorgeous · 03/02/2015 22:15

Well I think the language and sentiment od traditional vows did and do make sense (apart from 'obey' obviously) which is why most people still choose to say them.

If you don't commit to loving each other through richer and through poorer, sickness and in health in particular, what's the point of marrying?

Anyway I think the problem is not anyone else's vows or beliefs, but that you weren't at all sure about marrying your partner...

amothersplaceisinthewrong · 03/02/2015 22:15

I took all the traditional vows but did not promise to obey (don't think it is in the Catholic Nuptial Mass). Surely the whole point of marriage is to take someone for better worse, etc, and not just for the good times.

I remember being terrified by those vows, thinking that it was a really tall order and just hoping I would be up to it. So far so good!

Original poster
WaitingForMe · 03/02/2015 22:20

I guess I saw it as being a vow that the other person took a role in (i.e. I'll love and support you as long as you are doing it with me).

OP posts:
Aussiebean · 03/02/2015 22:21

I promised to always help him with his spelling and he promised to always help me with my maths.

We did some of the other more traditional stuff but added a little of us.

Koalafications · 03/02/2015 22:26

We did the traditional vows. At our marriage preparation classes the priest told us that he refused to use 'obey' in the vows (not that we had asked him to) for any couples he married.

BackforGood · 03/02/2015 22:33

I agree with BloodyGorgeous.

I do like the traditional language, but mainly, that whole things about 'for better for worse, for richer for poorer', was exactly what we were committing to. I wouldn't be very impressed by a spouse that wasn't prepared to promise that much!

PetulaGordino · 03/02/2015 22:36

The bare minimum doesn't even involve love, honour etc. just a declaration that there is no reason why you can't lawfully get married, and that you take the other person as your spouse

Nothing wrong with adding extra vows that are important to you, but it's not necessary for the legal contract

morethanpotatoprints · 03/02/2015 22:36

I didn't say obey but promised all the rest yes as did dh.
We both took/take them very seriously, not particularly from a religious pov but because we believe in them and said we did in front of all our family and friends.
and after 22 years those vows have been tested Grin but we have managed to stick to them so far.

OldLadyKnows · 03/02/2015 22:39

I don't think anyone has promised to obey for a very, very long time; my minister didn't include it (and I wouldn't have said it!) and that was over 30 years ago.

However, said minister didn't believe that end of life = end of marriage, so we didn't say "till death do us part" either. Poor dh, stuck with me for all eternity... Shock Sad Grin

RudyMentary · 03/02/2015 22:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AcrossthePond55 · 03/02/2015 23:03

I'm sort of confused OP. You didn't want to promise 'in sickness & health, for richer or poorer' because you wanted an 'out' or because you didn't think your fiancé (now husband) would do those things for you even if you did them for him? Then it seems to me that you two shouldn't have married at all. Marriage isn't conditional, it's a 100% commitment to stand together come hell or high water. Well I guess it can be conditional if you both agree that it's going to be.

If I knew ahead of time that my husband wanted to be sure of a 'no broken promises get-out-of-jail-free card' when the times got tough or that he didn't truly trust me to stand by him during the bad times, then I wouldn't have married him in the first place. We've been through some tough times, and it's the love and the knowledge that we promised to stick by each other that gave us the courage and strength to see things through.

Sometimes you may feel that those promises are the only things that hold you together, although really it's the love that does that. But if you go into it with the attitude that you can just leave if things aren't 100% to your liking, your marriage isn't likely to last.

Yes, there are times when promises get broken and marriages end. Some marriages should end, despite promises.

Original poster
WaitingForMe · 03/02/2015 23:23

Maybe I'd rather have realistic promises that don't get broken than unrealistic ones that do? I wasn't looking for an "out" as much as a contract with a few more clauses than the standard.

A marriage is a commitment to a number of agreed standards. While I appreciate that defining our standards moves away from the religious standard so too were all those who dropped obey, so are those who keep their name. I'm no less committed for DH knowing my limits just as a woman who keeps her name is no less committed than those of us who take their husbands' name.

When my husband got ill I didn't leave, I asked him to commit to his health. I said I was with him completely but that he needed to be with me and the kids completely and have the horrible conversations with his GP. Had he chosen to sulk and lick his wounds then that would have been him opting out, not me.

OP posts:
lecherslady · 03/02/2015 23:51

I did the traditional vows except obey. But I'm very much a traditionalist and personally I only moved in with dh as we had agreed to marry (would not have done so otherwise), would not have got pregnant outside of Wedlock, and with few exceptions wouldn't divorce either so most of the traditional vows stand for me.

ElviraCondomine · 04/02/2015 00:07

Define traditional.

I got married in a religious ceremony using a form of words that has hardly changed in 350 years

Our declarations - not called vows- contained none of the above. I basically made a promise to be loving and faithful. Seems to be working ok so far.

KristinaM · 04/02/2015 00:25

Last time I checked there was nothing in any of the traditional vows about keeping or changing your name

Hovis2001 · 04/02/2015 06:34

OldLady

Apparently, "till death is do part" was originally "till see death us depart", i.e. the Second Coming and all that. I always thought that was a sweeter interpretation.

newnamefor15 · 04/02/2015 07:20

I can see the OPs point, actually.

I take vows and promises very seriously. Some would commit me to more than I would be willing to do, so I wouldn't make them.

The trouble with the old vows is that they come from a time before divorce was realistically available to anyone, and you were stuck for life if it turned out to be a poor marriage. They ask for unconditional love. Unconditional love is what gets people stuck in abusive relationships. Sometimes people do things that make continuing in a marriage untenable. They may not always be able to help doing those things, but the other person still has to live with it. I wouldn't like to have vowed to stay with someone regardless.

In sickness and in health - yes, it sounds as though this is a basic requirement of marriage and something of course you would do if you truly love someone. I don't think a decent person would run away because their spouse developed a disease or disability. But how about me? I was married for ten years to a man with bi-polar, who during that time refused point blank to go to a doctor for proper diagnosis and treatment (he eventually did a couple of years after we split). He was obviously mentally unwell, very often, and it had a huge impact on both our lives, and our marriage. Should I have been required to stay in this situation because of loving someone 'in sickness'? I couldn't. Or how about someone who becomes a heroin addict? Should their spouse have to live with that all their lives? Or a destructive alcoholic? Or a sex addict who can't stop going to prostitutes? These are all health issues.

mygrandchildrenrock · 04/02/2015 07:23

I got married in 1977 and again in 1993 (that one is still going strong!) and didn't have 'obey' in either ceremony.

MatildaTheCat · 04/02/2015 09:34

Apparently the word 'obey' is from the Latin 'obire'( sp?) which is to 'listen wisely'. I quite like this although of course if one says it then both shouldSmile.

We did the whole in sickness and in health bit and have indeed been tested, as will all married couple eventually. It seems a bit quaint when young and healthy, Less so when it happens.

However, I agree with OP that taking care of oneself is pretty important. Trouble is the vows could get a bit long at that rate. Hmm

GloopyGhoul · 04/02/2015 09:47

I promised to obey, but I was an Old English student at the time, and my husband understood that I meant it in the old sense of listen/understand/honour. He was also willing to say it himself, but the Chaplain said it wasn't permitted.

I actually don't recall the exact wording of the rest, but as both of us have struggled with anxiety and depression, part of the "in sickness" is about helping the other when they can't help themselves.

None of our vows were taken lightly.

bigTillyMint · 04/02/2015 09:58

I can't actually remember exactly what we saidBlush
I definitely did not promise to obey though!

WhoremoaneeGrainger · 04/02/2015 11:37

I actually did say "obey" - because I knew DH would never ask me to do anything I didnt want to or think was right. 21 years later I don't regret it.