This isnt right, is it, to be like this towards a 9 year old.

[vintagecrap]

More family drama.

My family are annoyed that DD didnt text them on her birthday. We had a birthday breakfast the morning after her birthday and they all kind of layed into her. It now turns out my sister doesnt want anything more to do with me as she thinks DD was rude to her. My mum who i havent spoken to since then is up in arms that im not letting dd go round there today on her own and still thinks DD was out of order and spent 20 mins banging on my door yesterday which i refused to answer.

Anyway, so, mum and sister sent DD a happy birthday text. DD didnt reply. Her phone is new and she got it for xmas. It actually ran out of credit for the first time on the wednesday. I didnt know till the friday after school. DD walked to school with her friend friday and normally sends a text to say she got there ok. I didnt get it this time. I spoke to her when i picked her up and she said she had sent it. I looked at her phone and it had a little undelivered sign next to it which DD wouldnt know what that was as a) its never happened before and its new and b) it would have come through after she had left the phone with the office.
I explained this to DD and then showed her the message from two days earlier to say that she was out of credit and explained when she gets this she must let me know and i will sort it out for her.
All normal i think, and teaching her to be responsible.
Anyway, she went off to her dads at 4pm on the friday and came home at 12 the saturday which was her birthday. She had had texts in the morning.
I didnt even know this, she came home, we opened presents and then went off to her party for 12: 45.
We got home at 5pm ish, where i called my mum and asked did she want us to go round with the cake so she could see dd.

We did go round, mum was huffy and then laid into DD about the texts.
I stopped it and we came home.

The sunday my sister laid into DD about the texts, DD didnt know what to say other than she had no credit, so in the end just said nothing and looked at me, i kept trying to put an end to it.

Later that day i stuck more credit on ready for monday.

Turns out aweek later they are still going on about it and think its totally ok to lay into a 9 year old like that, and of course my parenting has been brought into question along with my levels of responsibilty. Apparently i should force her to reply, yet my brother who is 28 and never replies to anyone ever, doesnt have to as they all know thats how he is and its his choice as a grown up

Ive told both of them that they have serious issues if they think that any of what they did was appropriate, am i right? this is toxic crap?

How much more of this?

They have been vile and abusive to you over and over. Now they are starting on your 9 year old.

You don't 'try' and stop them when they start on her you tell them. Enough, stop i have told you she had no credit and leave leave.

Your DD looked to you for help. Man up and sort yourself so you can provide it.

Get some therapy or help so that you can break away from them.

If you can't do it for yourself do it for your defenseless 9 year old so that in 20? years when she is as old as you she had not been treated to this shitty behaviour all her life.

They both sound like very unpleasant, petty-minded bullies and I think you should keep yourself and DD well away from them.

excuse me?
i have defended her.

i told them to stop and put an end to all conversation about it.

its still being an issue though ive not spoken to them for a week. I declined an invite to a birthday thursday as i didnt want to go anddidnt want to see them

Mum called friday and invited us round to dinner sunday to make admends i think, i said yes to that but that DD was out in the day time, DD usually goes t theirs every other sunday. Mum got huffy.

My brothers gf was having DD, my mum got my brother to tell his gf she wasnt allowed to have DD, his gf went mental at him for trying to control her and all this shit with my mum and has ended a 5 year realstionship with him,

I text mum to say in light of all this we wouldnt be coming to dinner and i wanted some space as i am dumbstuck by it all . mum went mental, threw tons of shit at me, ended up at mine knocking on the door for 20 mins refusing to go away etc etc...

anyway, she still wants my dd today, i refused there is no way in hell im sending dd there on her own in the midst of all this.

So, ive begged and got childcare else where, told my sister to fuck the fuck off told my mum she has serious issues.

and thats it, i dont want anything to do with them for a long while.

i just wanted to check that its not me, they are being really wrong to be like that with a child, its not normal, not how normal people tihnk/are is it

i dont need therapy to help break away from them either, thank you very much.

Not meaning to be flippant, as your family are blatently out of order here and this must be very upsetting to your daughter..........but, if she never had a mobile in the 1st place this wouldn't even be an issue, right?

I mean, personally, I think that's pretty young to even be having a mobile. She's in middle school (gasp)!!

Not having a go Vintage, just personal opinion.

I agree with the above posters BTW.

This is what I wrote to you last time you posted on this subject:-

"It not possible to have any sort of a relationship with a narcissist and such people as well make for being deplorably bad grandparent figures.

I would also suggest you post on the Relationships thread entitled "well we took you to Stately Homes" and read the resources at the start of that thread too.

Put physical as well as mental distance between your family and them. You do not need them at all".

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles and you are basically their scapegoat. They will and are scapegoating your child as well, you really do need to step up now because you will never have any peace otherwise. Ultimately you may well have to go no contact with them; infact this is what I would advise now.

You need to protect yourself and your child now from your dysfunctional family of origin because no-one else is going to do this for you. They have you well trained and you are very much in FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) to them but you can never reason with such people because they are inherently emotionally unhealthy. You need to be no contact with these people; having any sort of interaction with them at all is just serving them further. Being at all nice and or presenting them with reasoned argument simply does not work; you cannot apply the "normal" rules of familial relations to such people also because they never have or ever played by the rules in the first place. They also never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions.

It is NOT your fault they are like this. I would also suggest you find a decent therapist to talk to and someone to boot who has NO bias about keeping families together despite the presence of mistreatment. I would also suggest you read "Children of the Self Absorbed" written by Nina W Brown.

"excuse me?
i have defended her.

i told them to stop and put an end to all conversation about it".

Unfortunately Vintage that does not work. You cannot apply "normal" solutions in dealing with relatives to such people.

Your family of origin are inherently dysfunctional and like nothing more than a) a fight and b) the last word. Their behaviour is not unusual in dysfunctional family units where there is a narcissistic mother, infact what you write here is pretty much standard for such families of origin.

If you engage with these people at all, it just gives them more ammunition to lob at both you and your DD. Its as simple as that.

A 9 year old doesn't have to text anyone on their birthday, obviously. Your family sound awful. If my family had spoken to my kids that way, that would be the last they saw of us. Since this seemingly isn't your first experience of them being like tis - this is just how they are, what on earth are you thinking putting your dd through a relationship with any of these awful people?! I hope your 'for a while' translates to 'permanently' and that you really mean it this time, for your dd's sake if not for your own.

DD has a tiny pay as you go mobile, she is at her dads every other weekend and mostly it was got for that reason. Its also now useful for walking to school.
but that isnt the issue here.

i know she doesnt have to text anyone, and im fucking furious with the lot of them to be honest.

Im not having them to do her what was done to me , im just not.

As with these things they are not always ' awful' so, its a bit harsh to say what on earth am i doing.
Many times they are lovely nad have been helpful but of course its on the agreement that you stay in line and do what is expected of you and agree. the second you dont and say that, then its all thrown in your face.

This is the abuse cycle. You have to give up the nice so you don't get the nasty.

This is why you need help to see this.

I see it already. You must forget this is mu life.

Please don't patronise me. I'm not a stupid person and it isn't helpful.

chimi it's quite normal now for DC of separated parents to have a mobile so they can communicate directly with their parents. My (then) 6 yo got one.

vintage I think you've done the right thing. Sorted out your childcare and put some distance between you and them. Until they learn it's not appropriate to speak to a 9 yo like that, don't have them around. Who speaks to a child like that re their birthday?? They are awful!!!

for you

Your brother sounds as if he has the right attitude towards them.

Omg, cant' you see if it wasnt about a text from a mobile it would have been about a phone call or a face to face reply. These dysfunctional people would have foud something to have a got at OP/DD about.

The OP did not post for advice about a 9yr old having a mobile.

Their behaviour is wrong on so many levels. They are trying to use your DD to get to you.

OP i think you have done the right thing ..i read you post as just needing to check youve judged this situation currently..because lets face it if you have grown up with these people you may well question a few things.

Sorry. Make sure you tell DD she was not at fault and their reation was wrong.

Really?

Telling his gf she wasn't allowed to look after dd because mum said so?

Then lying to me and saying she dudnt want to talk to me again?

Followed by a tearful call from her telling me to ignore him as he us trying to control her that she never said that and has just dumped him.

Don't think so.

No the brother merrily did as mummy told him and instructed hs girlfriend not to babysit OPs dd. He got dumped for his trouble. Seems like the girlfriend is the only one with the right idea here.

OP you sound angry with some posters here who, it seems to me, have taken time and trouble to respond to me.

Do you not think you are a little in denial here? If you could truly see the abuse cycle going on here, you would cut your awful mother out.

To respond to you, obviously, not me!

Vintage, you've done the right thing for now, you've just got to gird your loins for later. Easy for me to say, but tbf I'd now say fuck the lot of them and get out of this life for good. I'm sure it will be hard and upsetting, but you need to believe in yourself - don't question what you are doing, because at heart you KNOW you are right.

I wish you strength. You are going to need it, but letting them back in would probably make things worse now.

"Im not having them to do her what was done to me , im just not".

But its already happening and in front of you as well. The overall dynamics have not changed much.

It is highly unlikely that your NPD parent will interact with your children in exactly the same way they did with you. At least, not in your presence. They have adapted their methods to the new situation of you having a family of your own. They know they don't have the same power and control they used to so they usually switch to sneakier methodologies. Which allows you to think that they have changed from what they were when you were growing up. From my personal experience, and from observing the experiences of others, the NPD grandparent will use their grandchildren in the same way they would use an inanimate tool. Without regard for the humanity of your child, that child becomes a tool in the hand of your NPD parent to hurt you. This will always result in moral and/or emotional harm being done to your child as well

You know what. You keep going back and now your DD is the firing line.

I wasn't being patronising.

Good luck.

No one has to reply to a text, let alone a 9 year old. They were seeing her the next day anyway. They are both controlling and not very nice a lot of the time.

Stay in touch with the sane GF. She sounds nice.

A very long break before seeing your Mum & you sister is a good idea. I hope at some stage you feel ready to go NC with them because no matter how nice they are at times, their overall presence in your and a DD's life is negative, very negative.

Don't go back to DD going there on Sundays, whatever happens. She's 9 and is going to want to do things with friends etc and if there's going to be a major strop every time it's not fair on DD. I presume this alternative childcare is going to cost now, which is a shame, but it's worth it.

It's standard in my family that if you get a text saying happy birthday you text back thanking them. I think it's a bit much to expect a 9 year old to keep track of what her balance is given it's beyond some teenagers!
Saying that your family sound a nightmare and for your DD's benefit I'd be going nc

Atilla is right. I have been in this situation with my parents and dcs. You know this isn't right, or normal. The 'nice' behaviour is on their terms only and if you show a thread of free will you will be punished for it. You and your dd are scapegoats. Read up on narcissitic personality disorder. It changed my life for the better. You are the only one fighting for this damaging relationship.

vintage, my DH has a mother similar to yours. Counselling has helped him, and I think it could help you, too, to get a sense of what is normal, so you don't need to ask questions like your thread title. (The answer to which is, "No, it's not fricken right! Despite your dysfunctional upbringing, your instincts are spot on!")

I'm sure you don't need counselling to tell you these things are wrong, but you might find it helps to hear that what you are feeling is normal.

FWIW, DH is required to call MIL on his birthday. It's "not her place" to call him. I do not make my DC call her on their birthdays. If she can't be bothered to contact them, that's her business.