Would you insist dh does something?

[inmyshoos]

We have been nc with in laws since October. There were many things going on. They are manipulative and controlling. Dh is terrified of confrontation with them and will let them stress him to the point where he loses it at home, short tempered, angry etc but will never get angry and tell them how he feels.
In October after a few horrible text messages and a cheeky letter from mil dh and i decided I would have a long chat with mil. It went terribly. She made it personal and said some really hurtful things.

We have since ceased all communication with them. Dh wouldn't answer the phone because he was worried it'd be his mum. He bought a phone to block her number but she still seems to manage to get through occasionally and leave messages. Dh will now shout at the dc 'dont answer it' if the phone rings and tbh Im getting fed up with all the stress. I hate confrontation. Having the long chat with mil wasnt an easy thing to do but i had to just put myself out there, asking myself 'what am i afraid of, how much worse can the situation be'.

So now i am feeling more and more pissed of at dh. Why can't he stand up to them.
Am i wrong to expect him to take action? Making the kids nervous of answering the phone is just not on.

Why has he said he doesn't want to deal with her?
He already isn't having contact with her - what's he afraid of? Perhaps talk that through - if she calls and you answer, what will happen? And then what? What if it does? How are you damaged by it? etc

Is changing your number an option?

Have you thought about changing your number and going ex directory?

He is obviously too afraid to answer her but what is the worst thing that can happen? Why don't you answer her and tell her calmly that dh will contact her in his own time.......

We live in a world of such numerous contact methods that simply changing your number wouldn't be enough and very likely mil will find a way of making contact if she wishes to do so. So if you want to clear the air/ get things out there, yes, he needs to talk to her and say whatever needs saying.

I always think going No Contact sounds very hard work even when fully justified. Low contact and zero impact would be easier.

You have said that your PIL were very controlling. You feel this now, as an adult. Can you imagine what life was like for your DH as a child, when they were literally omnipotent in his world? His whole way of being around them will have been structured around power from the get-go.

So it's not surprising that he's losing it around the house when he thinks they might call. I'm not excusing the shouting, but he probably is very stressed about the argument, and it could go down to a pretty deep level of anxiety. 'Standing up' to someone who has been abusive to him his whole life could be really traumatic. (The fact that he's a bloke doesn't negate that, and may even make it worse).

I actually think he's done a pretty brave thing in going no contact at all. In so many in-law threads there is a chorus of 'Why doesn't your DH take action?' In this case he has - it just hasn't fixed the problem.

You will need to think carefully about how and when and if you reengaged with these people, and on what terms. And you need to work together, as a team, to ensure that healthy boundaries are in place.

Practically, it shouldn't be that hard to get a phone that reliably shows the number of who is calling - and an answerphone to ring people back straight away if they dial from an unregistered phone.

Can't you just get an answer machine and monitor the phone calls. It's what we did when a close relative went through a mental health relapse. That why you can ring back the people you want to talk to and ignore the ones you don't.

I think you are being a bit mean to your husband. It's incredibly difficult to deal with toxic people and the tools you need take time to develop.

way not why

Has he read this book?

I also think he has been very brave in going no contact with them.

Your DH cannot stand up to them because he is mired in fear, obligation and guilt. He has become conditioned to accept their behaviours even though it is not and is still far more afraid of them than he would ever be of anyone else.

You cannot apply the usual sorts of solutions like having a chat to emotionally dysfunctional families like his as they like nothing more than a) a fight and b) the last word. Your chat with them unsurprisingly went badly; there was really going to be no other outcome to that discussion.

Her number can be blocked from your landline and mobile phones; this is quite easy to do.

Will he be willing to talk to a therapist about this now; he really could do with talking to someone who has no bias about keeping families together despite the presence of mistreatment.

Is he or has he seen a therapist to work through his feelings, NC isn't about hiding its about not engaging. If you have told this woman not to contact you and she still does, its called harrassment and there are laws against it.

I'm sorry that you and your H have to deal with this but you are both adults, him shouting at your children because he's scared that his mum might be calling, is not on.

To 'insist' on what? That he confront them? You've seen yourself what a lot of good that did when you did it. What he does need to do is seek counseling to deal with his abusive childhood. Even if you were able to enter the Witness Protection Programme and get away from his family, he still needs to deal with this.

You can only 'insist' a person do something if you have a bargaining chip that means more to them than the status quo. If not, you're just issuing an empty threat. Are you prepared to give him an ultimatum? "Talk to a counselor about this (especially if he's 'losing it' at home) or we will separate?". If not, you may as well save your breath to cool your porridge. Right now, 'avoid & shout' seems to be working for him, it's just not working for you or the children.

Just change your number....

Im loathed to say go no contact with parents unless they have done something so terrible it's really irretrievable. You haven't mentioned any details either.

Why did you go and speak to your MIL, Im sure that wouldn't have gone down well at all.

It sounds like your husband is really hurting and probably getting it from both sides, you and his mother.

I agree with those who say that your husband is being brave.

My husband has a lovely mother and even after 7 years still doesn't get it. He supports me, is a barrier for me and yet sometime will say something which proves he has no idea.

Your dh has been trained and conditioned to be a certain way by his parents, (from his birth!) society and now by you. (You are trying tell him how to behave as well)

What you are asking him to do is incredibly difficult. I completely understand the mental turmoil he is going through.
I am not saying that yelling is the best way, but at the moment this is the only way he knows. Children of toxic parents are not taught how to deal with emotional issues in an emotional intelligent way. Instead they are taught to suppress their feelings and they have been shown that you yell and scream to get what you want.

Start looking for a counsellor. One who does not preach keeping families together then you can go with him initially then leave him to it. Get an answering machine after changing your number. A pain but needs must.

Be his barrier. Tell him you will answer the phone from now on. He won't have to and the kids won't either. If it is her, you will say an agreed stock phrase, not engage and hang up. But emphasis that with changed numbers this will be unlikely. But it will give him some peace of mind.

He has only just begun an Incredibly
Long and hard horrible journey. I have been in minimal contact with my narc mum for many years. And even now I am discovering other way and how badly I have been scarred by her. And I was lucky. I eventually worked it out that there was something wrong with her around early 20s but the pieces only fell into place around 32. Many people dont get it until much much later in their lives and by then they have rock bottom self esteem and abusive relationships behind them.

We both come from difficult families. Neither of us had what i would term 'an abusive childhood'

I didn't give details because it would be like writing a novel. It wasn't like there was one incident that happened. In brief pil have always made dh uncomfortable, more fil than mil, dh always felt mil was just doung what it took to keep fil happy.
Fil is odd. Very controlling. Very twisted. But also a master of disguise.

Dh and i had counselling together last year because we were having difficulties. His parents featured heavily in our sessions. Dh was asked what was the worst that would happen if he sat down with his Dad and said 'i feel we dont really get on great. I would love if we could get on better'. Dh said no way could he ever have that chat even though he couldnt say what terrible thing might happen!

I spoke to mil as dh just can't. She tried to spesk to him on phone after texts had been exchanged and he went from saying to me 'its black its black its definitely black' to saying to mil 'it is pink or maybe white with yellow tones, im not sure, i can't remember'. He cant say what the problem is so we agreed I would try. I had a chat, never said anything personal infact i would say i was rather nice about them and she was a complete bitch in return. Made it very personal. Since then she has texted and phoned leaving messages asking whdn she can speak to the dc always with an indignant tone.

I am not being mean to dh. It is a very difficult thing to deal with. Dh is not an easy straight forward person. He has definite issues and these significantly affect our relationship and over above the stress of his parents.

V hard situation to be in for you and for your dh.
My sister had a similar situation with inlaws. Eventually you will have to engage with them. For the sake of the grandchildren.

What my sis decided on was writing a note to parents in law saying that this was upsetting for all and wanted to resolve, a group session with a mediator was booked and that if they wanted a functioning relationship that it was important they attend. It helped as personal attacks couldn't happen. If they hadn't attended sis knew that it wasn't for her/dh's efforts.
sis's fil passed away 4 months after and her dh said he would never have gotten over it if issues hadn't been ironed out.

I have been where you are. Try to be patient with your husband.

You must also stop engaging with this and them. This whole behaviour is designed to make you and your husband fight and split you. No contact. Do it. Get an answer phone. Use for it everyone.

However, you need to know where your husband's loyalties lie. They have to be to you. They must. Otherwise your marriage is dust. Then you must give him all your support, and try to understand that he has been bullied his whole life by people who would claim to love him. I agree with the ultimatum idea - you need to know the bottom line. Don't whatever you do, give in. Such people only interpret that as weakness. They will pounce on it. no contact. Yes, suddenky there will be medical panics, dire emergencies, the apocalypse. You must ignore it, both of you. It is made to get you back in control. It will get worse and you must both be ready for it.

I have had the lot, therapy, letters, character assasination, calls at work, the police...everything. None of it amounted to a molehill.

`it sounds like you've reached a point where you need to make it verbally crystal clear to her that you want no contact with her...and that includes your dc being 'off-bounds' to her toxic influence.

if she carrries on with the harassment - as that's what it essentially is-then you may need to take it a step further with a legal response. you could report the harassment to the police or have her served with something like a 'cease and desist' order....i'm not au fait with the technicalities but i know this route is available.

don't let her use your dc as an excuse or a way of maintaining any semblance of control or manipulation in your lives.

I suggest finding another counsellor who will not suggest he speak with his father. I know whenever someone suggests I spend time with my mum I start to panic. It also sounds like the mother is not the put upon little woman but someone who is active in her sons treatment. I think that is the hardest idea for children to get. The fact that the enabler is just as to blame as the toxic.

You don't have to have these people in your life 'for the sake of the GC' my mother will have very little to do with my coming child especially as I have seen the way she treats my nieces and nephew. I can already see her treatment of my sil's and the comments she is making to them and their children.

Only you will know what is best for your family. But that must be at the forefront of your actions. What is best for your family. And if that means cutting them out then that is what it shall be with no apology needed.

When things are calm talk to your husband about what happens next. Not how you will have contact, but how you, your dh and your children can move forward as a family.

First the practical with contact. Maybe not having an answering machine but caller ID. So you only answer numbers you know and want to answer, or if you are getting lots of calls you can put it off the hook (will help with telemarketing too). Also you will not have to listen to any messages where you have to listen to her indignant tone.

Then the mental. Counsellor, books, (first post of the stately homes thread will give you a place to start) and forums. The stately homes thread was invaluable to me. It maybe a little weird for your dh as it is mostly from a female perplspective but he should find many stories he will relate to.

If the pressure is off to have contact and he knows you are in this together hopefully you guys can go foward.

I agree with finding a counselor who understands that you don't necessarily want to 'fix' the family dynamic as you can't do that unless everyone is on board. You need one who will work with your DH in dealing with his feelings about his relationship with his parents and strengthen him in distancing himself and/or setting firm boundaries.

Thanks for replies. We are keen to avoid changing number and so bought a caller block phone. However due to where we live the caller id feature is intermittant which means occasionally mil gets through. Seems ridiculous but it is what BT are telling me.
Thing is she leaves messages saying 'its me AGAIN, just wondering how you all are AGAIN!! It would be nice to talk to the children. I will ring back some other time.....(in a deflated tone)
This is so true to form. Behaves appaulingly then carries on like it never happened.
It is so hard because dd2 is now saying 'i miss Gran but I don't like it when she is mean to you and Dad'. I don't want my dc to have to deal with/witness this kind of shit. When i asked MIL not to make discuss anything infront of our dc she ignored my request and said 'well there is no other option, thats just life, too bad'. Grr..

What boundaries have you agreed and have you communicated these clearly to your MIL?

Have you told her that you are NC?
That she will not have any contact with the children?

And if so is this a life time block - or are you prepared to negotiate depending on behaviour?

I have no concerns about keeping toxic people away from my children - in-fact I believe it is more important to protect children and not expose defenceless children to toxic adults - blood or not - they are not required for a healthy future.

By the way - she will not respect your boundaries - and but you can rinse/repeat/ignore until she finally gives up (after she has of course escalated).

I do think that you DH has achieved a significant milestone - but it is troubling him - so he needs therapy to sort this out and then your support to maintain the boundaries.....and he needs to take responsibility for the calls triggering his bad behaviour with the children.

Anyway you can turn off the answering machine so you don't get these messages?

Learn to shrug off her passive-aggressive voicemail messages. They are rather ridiculous. I know they probably infuriate you, and strike fear in your husband's heart, but... laugh them off? They are so patently the huffy and self-important bluster of a huffy and self-important person. Turn them into derision in your minds: it sure beats anger or fear as an emotion.