So angry with DH, but don't know if I am being unfair

[feesh]

This will probably out me, but never mind.

I left my job 4 years ago so DH and I could come out to the Middle East to work. Since then, I haven't worked at all, but we have had twins who are now toddlers, and I was just starting to think about looking for a job (I am very employable over here) now they are a bit older.

The main reasons for moving here were because our lifestyle in the UK was awful - we lived in a tiny house, had a big mortgage, I absolutely HATED my job with a passion (had bullying bosses and was receiving counselling for it) and DH was commuting 2-3 hours a day into London and back.

Since we have been here, DH has been promoted. Money is good, but we don't save any money, as cost of living here is astronomical. But we are comfortable.

He has been unhappy in his job for about a year; the contracts which he is responsible for managing are slowly disappearing and they are trying to employ more locals instead of expats, so he feels a bit insecure in general.

Other than that, he seems to have it quite good to be honest - a good team, good relationship with his bosses, nice lunches out, always leaves at 5pm on the dot, short commute etc.

Over the last year too, our relationship has been a bit crap - we don't have a sex life at all, and he's been a little insensitive sometimes towards how hard I have found things as a SAHM, which has made me lose a bit of respect for him I guess. Having twins has been an epic strain on our relationship, but he is a good dad and he genuinely pulls his weight around the house very well indeed.

A couple of months ago, completely out of the blue, he told me that he'd applied for a job in the UK. I was completely shocked by this, as I had no idea how hard he'd been finding things at work - he was saying he couldn't take it any more, that he had to leave before the job caused him to have a breakdown etc. I was pretty devastated, because (a) I don't want to go back to the UK and (b) I kind of assumed we would discuss any major international move before planning anything.

I'm not anti-UK in general; the problem I've actually got with going back is that he HAS to work in London because of the nature of his work, I've had a 4-year career break and am not going to find it easy to get a job any more, plus we are now a family of 4 plus cat plus dog and we would seriously struggle to live within commuting distance of London, plus I know he would be miserable again commuting. If we could go anywhere else in England, I would be happy to go back, but not to London.

Anyway I've put my concerns to one side and he's been merrily applying for jobs ever since. Thankfully, not all of them in the UK, so I was actually starting to feel a little bit positive about moving on.

I have tried to be supportive. I've been seeing a counsellor myself to help me deal with ongoing depression, which I think started when the twins were born, and this has helped me try and get my head around supporting my husband. We are also starting marriage counselling anyway next week because of the ongoing lack of sex etc.

This morning though, he dropped an absolute clanger, and I have gone from trying to be supportive to feeling downright angry with him and feeling very unsupportive.

Basically, as we were sat in bed this morning, he announced that he was probably going to hand his notice in and we would all move back to the UK ASAP and live off savings, as he would find job hunting easier to do from the UK.

The problem is, we don't have many savings (he knows this) and he also has a history of being a bit crap with responsibility (seems to be a bit of a family trait I'm afraid) and I just feel like he needs to man the fuck up and not put his family in jeopardy like this.

He has a history of catastrophising everything, always exaggerates about literally everything he ever talks about (which is why I kind of tuned out to how bad his job was earlier last year), whenever he is feeling negative about something has to share the misery out so everyone feels miserable etc etc.

It would literally cost us thousands of pounds just to move back to the UK (exporting our stuff plus our pets plus flights plus rental deposit on a house plus other setting up home expenses) and we would be living off thin air as soon as we landed. This would be fine with a job to go back to, but without a job? No way.

He is at work today and I've been stewing all day over this, so I just needed to write it all down and get some perspective.

I've been in an awful job, which nearly killed me, which I stuck at for 7 years before we moved here. It was so bad that I was getting counselling on the NHS and regularly thought about crashing my car into a tree on the way into work every day, and cried on the way home. I would never have just left though and relied on him to pay the mortgage. But I do have sympathy for the toll that a bad job can take.

The thing is, I don't understand what is SO bad about his job that warrants such an extreme reaction from him, a husband, a father. I know he feels a bit insecure at work, and the working environment IS difficult in the Middle East, but he has a great relationship with his colleagues and the work itself isn't particularly stressful or difficult.

Am I being a selfish twat? Honestly? How are we going to get through this? What shall I say to him tonight? Because right now I want to rip his head off as soon as he walks through the door and lecture him about how he's been brought up with absolutely zero sense of responsibility harsh but fair and that now he is a husband and a dad he needs to find other ways of dealing with his shit without bringing the rest of us down.

I don't think yabu. It's horrible he hates his job but you absolutely can not move back without a job for him to go to. Seriously, how is he proposing you live if he's aware of your savings pot and that it won't stretch? Did you call him out on that, what was his answer?

Does he often panic like this? Ie, will you be able to calm him down and then make a new plan together?

If his UK job has to be in London, but that's not the life you want, then can he change careers? I know it's not always easy to do that, but if you're compromising by moving back then he needs to make some changes too.

Hope things work out.

Wow, you are in a bad situation... It sounds like you need to talk him into waiting, tell him he has to accept its not the best job etc, but it is A job, & that financially you not afford to just pack up & go. its not just him its the whole family. He cannot just make big family decisions, without discussions & thinking it all through. maybe he should read you OP

You're going to have to take his feelings on face value. Whether he catastrophises or not, he's unhappy and he thinks a job change is required. You may have stuck it out being unhappy for seven years getting therapy and think he is a wimp by comparison but everyone has their own limit.

I don't think you have to take the unilateral solution on board in full, however. London is overpriced, overcrowded and you've already escaped it once. Quitting a perfectly good job when you have no savings and just turning up in the UK 'on spec' job hunting sounds irresponsible. Having no plan would make anyone freak out, let alone someone with depression. I think these are the kinds of things that are causing you the most anxiety and you need to discuss options more fully and come up with a plan you're both happy with.

I'm always slightly mystified by jobs that can 'only be done in London'. Unless he's only qualified to feed ravens in the Tower, he must have other options and transferrable skills. So must you, for that matter. There are more places in the UK than London.... many of them with fantastic lifestyles and a lower cost of living. You/he could change career completely to something more relaxing .... you both sound like intelligent individuals who struggle with stress. Open a B&B in the countryside perhaps?

Anyway I've put my concerns to one side and...

I think that this is your problem here, although I could well imagine how it might happen with twin toddlers.

I feel a great deal of sympathy for your husband. He is carrying a great deal of financial responsibility, nearly all of it for all of you. You say it's not an easy situation to work in. It sounds as though he has reached his breaking point.
You really need to think about how you deal with this is as supportive partners and responsible parents.

If he refuses to discuss this and take the time to make a plan, then I think you're in worrying territory.

If you are very employable out there, maybe swap roles for a while?

There are other capital cities in the UK that offer great lifestyles. Why does it have to be London?

You are not being selfish at all.. You sound like you have your head screwed on! He's not a student on a gap year, he has a family to support now and hasn't thought this through in the slightest. We also recently moved back to the UK from the Middle East and you're right about the expence- it ate up our savings, overdrafts and credit card BUT we only took that financial hit because of a very well paying job here and career advancement. We shipped our things- £2k, brought our cat back £2k, flights £1.5k, buying furniture etc £1k plus.. You need to sit him down and talk through the details and make him see how likely it is that you could go from a comfortable life to poverty, which would only make him unhappier..

I loved living there in the sunshine but coming back was the best thing we did, not least because of the cost of living! So if he wants to return then it's understandable but he needs to have a job waiting for it to be feasible.
I hope it all works out for you and he comes to his senses :-)

OP - I dont exactly have much life experience with an international move, having kids etc. But with regards to DH's reaction to moving - do you think he may just be panicking and wanting to get out ASAP so not really thinking straight? When myself and DP had a similar job/living sit/money dilemma, I went back and forth all the time with what was best, and at my lowest points (also crying en route home from work etc), I clung at any option that was essentially to 'get away from it all,' even if deep down I knew it wasn't actually viable.

I think the best approach would be to be kind to him when you talk about it - explain that you understand how he is feeling about the job and make it clear that just upping and leaving there and then isn't actually going to make things better all round. It's hard to be sympathetic and I can totally see why you want him to grow a pair and provide for his family first and foremost - but I think if his job has affected him for a long time, then sometimes the priorities you should have get lost amongst the panic and emotional drain that the job takes.If you have a different strategy to present to him when you talk, that might make him feel better and like he has other choices. Could he work part time for a while out there, for instance, and look for another job in the meantime? How would you feel about working and him staying at home for a while, to enable you to stay where you are?

Thanks all, I really appreciate all the thoughts.

It has to be London because he is in a ridiculously specialised job in the financial industry - well ok, he could probably do Edinburgh too, but there are only a handful of jobs up there and he is looking to see if anything comes up. He's also applying for jobs in Jersey, which I am very happy about as the lifestyle appeals and it would be easier for me to get back into work in a smaller community like that.

I absolutely agree that a career change is in order, but he won't do it. He has never believed me when I've told him that his skills are transferable, and I've offered to support him in the past to change careers..and the offer is still there if I can get a well enough paid job (which is admittedly unlikely). He dropped out of Uni and drifted into what he does now and he's never really enjoyed it.

I liked Cogito's suggestion of us running a B&B together as in all honesty that's kind of the thing I saw us eventually going back to after a long stint in the Middle East (once I am back at work we would have been able to save quite a lot of money if we had stayed out here long enough).

But he's very risk averse and especially now we have kids, he wouldn't consider a career change.

I have thought of staying out here and persuading him to become a SAHD though. It's complicated with sponsorship laws and whatnot, plus I would miss the kids like crazy, but I have started putting feelers out for jobs to see what comes up for me.

I've today been pulling some figures together to show him exactly where we stand if we went through with this crazy plan of going back with no job. Hopefully he doesn't really mean it and was just saying it as a way of driving home to me just how unhappy he is.

I see what you're saying Cogito about me not being fully respectful of his genuine feelings. But I am so sick of staying strong all the time, and it's hard when you know you're the only one doing it.

I've got to admit, I've also been costing up what it would be like to live out here on my own today. Because our marriage was already on the rocks before this, and now I have lost even more respect for him. I have a fantastic support network here and some very dear friends and I would consider staying here on my own if it all went completely tits up.

Lottiegirl, we cross posted and you've made some very relevant points.

He should discuss things with you. He might be really unhappy in his job and the stress could make him ill. I think you should be kinder to him. I agree that it sounds as if your DH has reached breaking point and you don't seem to be listening or coming up with any alternatives other than carry on the way you are.

i dont think yabu for worrying about your situation but I think yabu by trying to keep your DH in a job he doesn't like.

it does seem silly to hand in your notice without having a job to go to but I can understand that being based in the place you want to be applying for jobs is beneficial.

Would it work if you got on board with the overall vision (moving back to the UK) and negotiated the actual way of doing it (waiting until he has an actual job offer)? ie give him hope that plans are in place to get out but not make any definitive move until there is a bit more security.

Or, if he does really want to get out now, say okay but then you're not going back to London, you'll go somewhere with more reasonable costs.

Ask him to do a proper budget for moving back so he can see in black and white how long the money would last.

I have to say though, when I had my own 'should we move back to london thread' last year I was encouraged by the number of places you can still live. It might be good to start getting a handle on it now anyway because he may very well give notice any day and then you won't have so much choice in the matter (wrongly or rightly).

Yanbu. He may be the breadwinner but you two are a team. Or should be.

Can you become the breadwinner over there and he be a satp? Can he suck it up until he actually finds a job and ideally a good relocation package? Is his job so bad that he has to leave to keep his sanity?

It strikes me that he can't be that risk averse if he is planning on jumping without a safety net.

If he is naturally risk averse then it seems more likely that there's something which has caused this response from him.

What are the prospects of you getting a job where you are, would the threat of you not moving with the kids and making him go on his own if he wants to, work?

I'm not trying to keep him in his job and I was supportive of him moving back to London if that was the best job offer he got (although I was secretly hoping that some of the jobs elsewhere would have worked out instead) and I'd even found the village we could move to which offered the best train access to Canary Wharf whilst also offering some good employment opportunities for me.

I don't WANT to go back, at all, but I was putting on a brave face and being supportive and I would have got my head around it eventually.

Until today. It's the decision to just give his notice in without a job to go to which has specifically upset me.

Me working out here is a possibility, but it's complicated with local laws - I would have to sponsor him to stay out here and it's kind of hard but not impossible for women to sponsor their husband. It's something I am exploring though.

The solution appears to be to have a swap around then. You go out to work, and he can be the parent at home.

But he's very risk averse and especially now we have kids, he wouldn't consider a career change

I wouldn't call a man, with a family, who is planning on handing in their notice and moving back to London without a job to go to, 'Risk adverse' more a selfish idiot. Someone who likes being in a job where he is 'ridiculously specialised' so doesn't want to consider changing career, just Whinge about it and put his family at risk of financial suicide.

I don't understand though, how he could get a job in Jersey but not anywhere else in the uk other than London or Edinburgh?

I would tell him that it's not his decision what the family does. Either you discuss it and makes plans as a family or he leaves on his own. Big headed prick.

I agree that you might need to think outside the box regarding jobs.
If he hasn't been happy in his role, why go back to similar in London? You don't want to be there.
Why not go live in Birmingham where you won't have the huge costs and do something different?

Because jersey is a big financial centre too

Sorry what was a reply to Chipping, who has nicely summed up my anger and frustration

Sounds like he wants an easy parachute out of where he is now.

You had a different mindset when you kept going with a job you loathed. He must have seen how damaging that was? Since then you've moved and started a family. Maybe he thinks in terms of it being 'his turn'. By going back he somehow hopes to rewind the clock in some respects. He may think that because you are dealing with depression you would not be averse to moving either.

As your sex life is affected too he is possibly weighing up whether a change would bring about a renewed closeness.

Am sure the majority on here will agree it's four of you to consider not just him. Any relocation should be discussed and weighed up. Why not sound him out - ask if he thinks he would like to try a SAHP role and enable you to return to work.

Brass tacks time - get numbers down on paper, costs involved, detail the lot.

PS Personally think running a B&B is a stressful option but each to their own.