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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Longstanding row with DP

51 replies

QueenofallIsee · 19/01/2015 08:23

We have been together 14yrs and have 4 children. Things are not perfect but we are very much together. We have been arguing about the same behaviour for many years and it is getting me down somewhat, though it will surely sound v petty. Here is this mornings example but it happens often

DP: The cat is in
Me (checking emails etc ahead of school run): Oh
DP (comes through from kitchen): You have left the top off the butter, the cat will get it. Come through and put it back on, or would you like me too
Me: I am sending an email, you walked passed the problem, why not just put the lid back on yourself, that it what I do
DP: How will you learn if I do everything for you?
Me: Angry...you are not a teacher, I dob't need teaching...I need help in the mornings to get everything done
DP: You should get things ready the night before.
Me: angry expletives

It drives me insane. He is constantly making me feel as though his help is conditional or only needed as I am rubbish. For absolute openness, i am very messy indeed but I do my fair share of picking up after everyone, cleaning etc. To me, he thinks that I only qualify for help if I ask for it, or do things properly. He thinks that I should want to make things easier and better so he is duty bound to comment so I don't make the same mistake again.

What do you think?

OP posts:
schoolclosed · 19/01/2015 09:40

kaykayred - that's it! I don't mind being chided, but being patronised makes my head explode!

Although, to give my DH at least his due, he is quite right when he says: "You just don't care about this stuff!" I don't; he does. Never the twain shall meet.

tinklykeys · 19/01/2015 09:42

Schoolclosed, that sounds very tough, and not at all reasonable! My DH has gone through phases of being like this (or cycles as others might call it). After the last one which ended up with him yelling 'why won't you just let me teach you?!' I sent him a link to a dv website which talked about how verbal abuse (including constant criticism) can be the most damaging kind of abuse, even if it is just continually saying something like 'you're not very good at x'. I told him after 12 years I wasn't going to accept it anymore. It was a bit of a wake up call and there were tears and things have improved a lot. Watch this space..

What I'm saying is, it is not acceptable for him to treat you like that. Flowers

It's hard to know if the op's case comes in that category based on this incident, as logically if the cat was coming in I might put the lid on the butter before starting emails. However if this comes after years of not being able to do anything right and being given no support, I'd say it's a much bigger issue than the butter...

How do you feel about it op?

clam · 19/01/2015 09:46

"I got a mini-lecture about putting things away 'properly'."

YOU got a lecture? When HE had left all the shopping on the kitchen worktop?

And what's with the "never argue with a man with a headache" business? Shock I'm afraid I'd have countered with, "if you have a problem with the way I put things away in cupboards, darling, may I suggest you do it yourself, as opposed to leaving it all in the kitchen for me to do and then complaining about it?"

Original poster
QueenofallIsee · 19/01/2015 09:47

Thanks all - in answer to the folks who think its a ridiculous thing to post about, I am fully aware of the petty nature of the argument. Its interesting that some folks totally think as I do, and some folks are 100% with DP and there is not much inbetween. Gives me (and him I hope) something to think about. To the poster who says that I make work for DP, I would politely assure you that is not the case for a few reasons. 1 being that he does not pick up after me, he comes in and does the butter dance as described, 2 being that I do the majority of the cooking, laundry, washing etc and 3 I would never dream of shouting to him, 'do you want me to clear your poo stains from the pan or will you come and do it'...I just clean the bathroom!

OP posts:
Original poster
QueenofallIsee · 19/01/2015 09:49

Schoolclosed, I am concerned that we are with the same person! Perhaps bigamy is the real problem?!?

OP posts:
tinklykeys · 19/01/2015 09:50

Actually having read your op again it does sound very similar to my experience. I am naturally quite messy and I have worked very hard over the years to improve as I know it's important to my husband. However it still comes much more naturally to him and over the years there have been many 'teachable moments' which I have found incredibly patronising and hurtful.

I think we have come to a middle ground now though and that's important. I've worked damn hard (with the help of fly lady!!) to get to this point though!!

OnlyLovers · 19/01/2015 09:55

I do the majority of the cooking, laundry, washing etc

Leave some for him to do.

You should get things ready the night before

Leave him to do his share in the mornings.

He may well start leaving the top off the butter occasionally if he's as busy as you currently are in the mornings.

GoatsDoRoam · 19/01/2015 10:09

2 being that I do the majority of the cooking, laundry, washing etc and 3 I would never dream of shouting to him, 'do you want me to clear your poo stains from the pan or will you come and do it'...I just clean the bathroom!

Point out your points 2. and 3. to him
Point out that it is emphatically NOT his job to "school" you. It IS his job to accept that you and he have different priorities and different behaviours, and to discuss with you where you both can compromise, but definitely give up trying to change another person, as that is impossible.

So, if you're the kind of person who doesn't prepare things the morning before, and leaves the butter open when another emergency pops up, but puts the lid back on when you next pass through the kitchen, then that's who you are. If he's not like that, then that's who he is. But he doesn't get to demand that you change into him: there are compromises that can be made, and the rest just needs to be let go. Otherwise human partnership would not be possible.

schoolclosed · 19/01/2015 10:12

Queen that would explain some things!

clam I don't disagree with you in any particular way. I'm just trying the 'sorry babe' approach for now. If/when he escalates, he does indeed get the sharp end of 'why on earth was I putting away the shopping in the first place?' I do think he shouldn't do it. I can't stop him, though, so I'm trying the non-response response. At some point I do need to talk to him about how boring it is to be constantly fielding tiny, pointless criticisms...

ethelb · 19/01/2015 10:15

Talking to a partner about 'teaching' them to do things they should 'learn' has no place in an adult relationship.

How can you want to sleep with someone who talks to you like that?

Talking about dividing labour more effectively is one thing, and seems to be necessary in this situation.

redredholly · 19/01/2015 11:59

Sometimes I nag my (fairly messy but fairly helpful) husband and he says 'you'd soon see how much I do if I wasn't around. And also there are hundreds of things you do that I could nag you about but I've chosen not too.'

I am a stubborn person but this has made me think, and to a certain extend stop. I look around and see only his mess, but he is good with the DC and also tolerates my mess too. I reckon I still do more, and he does some really gross things like forget to put nappies in bin, but we forgive each other.

OP you could try my husband's lines.

clam · 19/01/2015 12:21

My dh and I have always thought it's the other who creates the mess, and for evidence we point to the fact that when one of us is away, the house always remains much tidier. But actually, what happens is that if you're the only one around, you'll clear up because there's no one else to do it, well-trained kids notwithstanding. When we're both around, we're kind of secretly hoping the other one will do it, so it can get left.

That said, if I leave a pair of shoes on the floor, I will pick them up - at some point. If he leaves his out (and frequently lays a booby-trap of shoes across the bedroom floor to trip me en-route to the loo in the middle of the night), then I also end up picking them up because he "forgets" about them. Any time I happen to nag mention it, his instant retort is, "well you leave stuff around too," so 20 years on, we've decided to just ignore the issue and get on with life.

kaykayred · 19/01/2015 13:19

I find it funny about the "schooling/teaching" thing though. It really does just scream of arrogance.

I think the only thing to do is to say "You're being extremely patronising. Stop it right now". Nothing much you can do really.

It's more annoying when there are really SPECIFIC things that partners simply INSIST on doing despite the fact they pig you off

For example, if I find that my partner has just thrown the cushions onto the floor and left them there for me to inevitably pick up and put back onto the sofa - only for him to throw them off again as soon as he sits down, I am going to throw the bloody things out the sodding window.

Damnautocorrect · 19/01/2015 13:37

other half leaves the top off everything when he's making stuff. He will then eat it and go back to put things away at some point. drives me up the wall. But if i go in the kitchen first i will put the lid on and put it away, its no big deal really and 9 times out of 10 he's made the kids something too. If i had made it for them i would have had to tidy up, so it makes no odds really.

Its annoying, but he's being an arse especially with the teaching comment thats really bloody patronising. Its taken him more effort to 'teach' you then do it himself, after all they are both your kids you are making the sandwiches for and probably your kids that have distracted you from tidying up after.

CheersMedea · 19/01/2015 13:47

DP: How will you learn if I do everything for you?

He sounds like he relating to you like a child!! This was the kind of thing my father used to say to me - like turning lights off and leaving doors open ("were you born in a barn?").

I'd grasp the nettle and say
"I'm not that bothered about leaving the butter lid off/doing stuff the night before/fill in the blank. I appreciate that you have a different view but when you say to me "How will you learn?" it upsets me because I find it a bit patronising and condescending. We need to agree to disagree on this issue because I have no intention of "learning".

And Happy New Year to You too darling

CheersMedea · 19/01/2015 13:48

Utter HTML fail!

And Happy New Year to You too darling

YackityUnderTheMistletoe · 19/01/2015 14:09

I would never dream of shouting to him, 'do you want me to clear your poo stains from the pan or will you come and do it'...I just clean the bathroom!

And why not? He's being a complete PITA about things, turn it back onto him and talk to him in the exact same style he talks to you. Be as patronising to him as he is to you, and see how he likes it - if you can use the exact tones, all the better!

slithytove · 19/01/2015 15:22

Tell him to clean his own poo.

Joysmum · 19/01/2015 15:50

So just put the kid back on the butter and stop multitasking unless you're capable of it. Would it hurt to leave checking your emails another 2 mins until you've finished your current task?

There's no way I'd be picking up after my DH for the same thing 14 years in.

My DH used to get rattled about the ironing board being left out, I made the effort. I don't make the effort for any of his ongoing things either but we'll both happily pick up and tidy away things that aren't an issue.

peggyundercrackers · 19/01/2015 16:01

sounds like you deserve to be treated like a child. its gets right on my tits when people jump from one thing to the next to the next and never finish anything then expect someone else to clean up after their arse. if you use the butter put the lid on it before you do anything else, stop answering emails whilst your working - if your working stop making lunchboxes when your doing it - one thing at a time!

clam · 19/01/2015 16:13

Not sure why the OP should alter her MO just because it gets on peggy's tits.
And where did she say that she "expected" him to clean up after her? She was intending to deal with it, but he happened across it before she did so and asked her (in a PA way) if she wanted him to do it.

Original poster
QueenofallIsee · 20/01/2015 12:35

Thanks so much everyone for your insights - I am quite shocked at how split the responses are, a healthy amount who agree with DP and those who would see my point of view. It is actually really helpful as it reminds me that there is not just one way of looking at things. I have 3 decided courses of action. I will try harder not to be messy as I know that I am and its not a good quality. I will assertively state (rather than aggressively) when I feel patronized by DP and give him the chance to amend his manner of addressing me. I think at least part of the issue is the fact that I feel he sometimes treats me in a way that plays down my contribution to our household - I need to verbalise that better rather than feeling resentful of it

I DO NOT expect anyone to clean up after me, nor do I think that I struggle to multi task in any real sense. At the risk of being a tad flouncy I would point out to those who assume that I am, that I get up an hour before DP, I am raising 4 children (aged 7-16) so deserve some recognition for my contribution to that, I work full time in a demanding profession, I volunteer at a local organization my children use, I do at least half if not more of the housework, all of the shopping/cooking/spellings/reading/homework/dr appointments. So in regard to the much maligned butter - I earn the money to buy it, I go to the shop to find it, make 3 meals a day for 6 with it, clean the fridge that it sits in...so if i want to cover the cat in it and do the fandango then I think that is probably my look out! That said, I do respect my DP and what HE contributes, so will try harder not to get pissy but instead talk like a grown up!

Again thank you all for your help!

OP posts:
slithytove · 20/01/2015 21:39

Please, please say that to DP!

and then tell us what he says

balia · 20/01/2015 22:07

If it is a long standing row, can you alter the response rather than the behaviour? Seems to me the row starts after this point -
DP: The cat is in
Me (checking emails etc ahead of school run): Oh
DP (comes through from kitchen): You have left the top off the butter, the cat will get it. Come through and put it back on, or would you like me too?

Could you just say - oh yes, could you, that would be really helpful.

I'm the more tidy/organised one in our household - when DH does this kind of thing (eg leave something out that he could easily have put away) I feel very taken for granted - a word of acknowledgement/appreciation goes a long way. (and reminds me that he does his fair share, just with different kinds of stuff).

trickydickie · 20/01/2015 22:20

Queenof - love your last post. I too have 4 children and work full time. My DH pulls his weight but I certainly do the majority of housework, shopping, cooking etc. like yourself. LIke yourself I can be messy, try not to be but sometimes it happens! Especially when I feel like I have 40000 balls to juggle.

If Dh had said that to me I would have retorted with absolutely everything that I do round/in the house. Really, it takes 2 seconds to put the lid on and how long for him to patronise you!