Suddenly feeling jealous about affair, eight years on

[MrsPorter]

DH had an affair in 2006 - chatting over FB, then hotel rooms with her when he told me he was at his hobby.

He told me in early 2007, after the fact, but in order to get in before OW's H contacted me.

I was ok with the sexual side of their relationship, as weird as that sounds, but felt very betrayed about the emotional side. However, we did not split up and have since had DC together. I believe very strongly that he was horrified by his behaviour and does not want to risk losing what he has, particularly now DC are part of what he'd lose.

Tonight we were talking vaguely about V Day which is when we got engaged in 2003. I said something like ooh I've been wearing this [engagement] ring for twelve years, and he said something like "you've had me for longer than that".

And suddenly it hit me like a ton of bricks that although I can say I have slept with nobody but him for those twelve years, he can only claim the last eight.

I have PTSD from a previous abusive relationship and issues related. This week I've been dealing with flashbacks and low-level panic attacks. The PTSD has manifested as psychosis since I was pg with our youngest, now a toddler, and is approximately under control but simmering away unhelpfully.

I don't want to break up. I don't even really want to talk to him about it. I want to know why after eight fucking years the sex suddenly matters.

I'm going to sleep now (I hope) but needed to get this down.

Maybe I'm just starting a nervous breakdown and need to be in hospital.

Angry that you feel less of a person next to a man Mrs Porter, I have no anger towards you, I don't know you.

I'll bow out.

No failure, ever.
Nothing is good enough for them? Anyone oversteps the mark becomes a major disappointment?

Then it's good you have created your own family to have a buffer between you and your birth family.

By no means. Everything is probably, nearly good enough. Not as good as DB, obviously, but good enough.

A failed marriage would be really really bad, though.

A failed marriage would be really really bad, though.
So no matter what happens, you stick with it? When DH had his affair did you think well, it must have been some failing on my part, I'll rationalise it and focus on the sharing of secrets instead of the actual sex?

I think at the heart I believe a man is entitled to have sex with his wife, and is entitled to tell her what to do ... Thread upon thread in Relationships concluding that you don't have to and probably shouldn't stay with a partner who doesn't meet your sexual needs.

A marriage is more than just intercourse, there are layers and nuances and day-to-day demands on us and it's not always possible to switch off and relax - wouldn't someone you've been with for so long know this and not consider marital sex as more or less a duty?

Whereas the man who raped you was exercising control and was most likely incapable of having a genuine emotional relationship.

Between your family and what the Bad Man told you it sounds like a recipe for you to allow others to shortchange you; I don't know whether or not you blame yourself for abuse or as discussed, punish yourself when things go wrong, but your posts hint you do look for signs of instability in yourself.

I don't understand this: you look for signs of instability in yourself. Do you mean I blame myself instead of looking outward at others, or that I try to modify myself to prevent instability? Or something else?

Do you mean I blame myself instead of looking outward at others

That was what I was thinking, obviously am no expert.

Do you mean I blame myself instead of looking outward at others

That was what I was thinking, obviously am no expert.

I was just being thick

I think it's very likely.

I've booked to go back to my doctor on Friday (when all the DC are at school or nursery) so we'll see.

Thanks again for taking the time to help me talk this through

"That's a very un-MN position but it's what the Bad Man taught me and I see evidence of it all around"

If it's an 'un-MN position' that's because it's recognised as being very damaging to women. It's not that MN doesn't approve in some kind of theoretical or ideological manner, it's because no person should ever feel obliged to do something they object to. Especially not when it involves intimacy. A wedding ring on the finger doesn't make a woman the property of a man... both people in a marriage should be there by mutual consent.

This 'Bad Man' (and I can't help thinking that this pseudonym is giving him a 'Volermort' quality) - the rapist that assaulted you - is clearly a source of a lot of distress still. What he taught you has to be ignored. I'm quite concerned if you see evidence of women surrendering themselves sexually 'all around.' Who are these women exactly?

Objectively I can see that you should be right.

Pragmatically we know that a libido mismatch undermines and eventually destroys marriages. Saying no every time you aren't bothered (as opposed to when you really don't want to) may be completely legitimate but ultimately unhelpful.

By "all around" I guess I mean culturally, although spending any time on MN reinforces my view. Certainly it's an accepted position that mismatched libidos cause conflict, and unsatisfactory sexual partners can be discarded, in an honourable, candid, non-overlapping fashion.

Any incompatibility will cause friction and mismatched libido is an incompatibility like any other. The answer is to communicate rather than capitulate. Leaving sex aside for a second, saying yes when you aren't bothered, agreeing when you really disagree, going along with something you don't like for a quiet life, making concessions you're not completely happy with.... like forgiving a betrayal.... may not be damaging if it happens once or twice but if the capitulation goes on repeatedly over many years, if you're always suppressing your needs and wishes, it will gradually erode your self-esteem. You will disappear under all the compromises.

You said in your original post 'sex suddenly matters'. I wonder if it's you that suddenly matters?

Bloody hell.

Weirdly, my instinct is to reject that - not because I think it untrue, but because putting myself anywhere but last is unthinkable.

That's about the saddest thing I've ever read, and I wrote it about myself

Christ have mercy.

I'm sorry if I've upset you. It is sad if you think you take last place in your own life but it's never too late to put yourself higher up... if that's any reassurance. Maybe the process is already starting? Maybe you're starting to think you deserve better after all?

But if I'm not last then someone else will be. I genuinely cannot justify that. How does that even work?

Don't apologise for upsetting me - I've upset myself. You (and others) have kindly and generously given up your time for me, and I can give you nothing in return.

I don't personally think putting yourself first means someone else will be last. I don't think having self-respect or self-esteem is the same thing as being selfish. It's not even necessary to reciprocate beyond a simple thanks when someone helps you. That's also part of putting yourself first... shedding feelings of duty or obligation which can too easily become self-imposed restrictions. If someone wants to help you assume it's because they are a helpful person. It should not be because they are expecting something in return.

Compromise is normal. Submission is damaging. Assertiveness is healthy

An update.

I saw my doctor. She notes that my bp is odd (usually 100/60, currently 116/96) and I have a slight arrhythmia. I have been started on beta blockers which should ameliorate both of those symptoms and also treat the likely underlying cause, namely the anxiety. She has also given me diazepam for the major crises which are getting closer together. The particular beta blocker she has put me on is currently being trialled for PTSD in particular, so may well turn out to be Just The Thing.

I feel a bit peculiar on it, at the moment, although I gather that means it is probably working on the heart things at least.

I think essentially I spent about five days in a continuous panic attack (DH couldn't register my pulse under 94 even when I was falling asleep). It was starting to feel normal to be on alert all the time, as though living downhill from an erupting volcano.

DH is trying very hard, including taking time off work despite projects (unheard of). I am making the most of this to get stuff done round the house that stresses me - eg sorting out the bookcase.

As for the sex ... I'm avoiding thinking about it, let alone doing it. Fuck knows.

mrs P can I just say that you come across as fabulously eloquent and very clever ?

BP of 100/60 is the lower end of normal and beta blockers will reduce your BP. If you have arrhythmia your GP should be doing a 24 hour ECG, and potentially referring you to a cardiologist.

She should also be referring you on to a psychiatrist to assess PTSD (assuming this has not been done already) who would then be able to recommend the best therapy for you. GPs have little training in mental health, and she shouldn't be trying to manage this herself.

I had PTSD when I was younger & was prescribed beta blockers and diazepam not to any great effect. Beta blockers block your adrenaline receptors and slow your heard down a bit, diazepam is basically a muscle relaxant - it might help you sleep but it will also make you feel groggy.

There is no substitute, ime, to proper psychotherapy with someone who specialises in treating PTSD. Until you address the causes of the stress and trauma, the physical stress responses that your GP is trying to treat are unlikely to change.

jasper - thanks!

twinklestein - the PTSD dx came from a neurologist and a 24h EEG in 2002 ish when the crises were daily, multiple times, resulting in blackouts. I was in counselling then, and have been again since. I am currently on the waiting list again but it is at least eighteen months long, but I'm resistant because the last one was dreadful - asked me to bring DH to a session and told him to "stop taking no for an answer". MH provision in my area is basically GP or in-patient.

She is going to monitor my BP regularly to check it doesn't dip too low - at the moment it is high for me and needs treating.

I was previously on high-dose escitalopram which was brilliant, but you can't take it whilst bf and I will not currently contemplate stopping until DC3 weans of his own accord. I've had diazepam before (starting from episode mentioned above IIRC) and it works well for me.

Her main concern is my self-harm/suicide ideation. I've been seeing her on and off for over a year and this week was the first time I would even consider medication.

Oh yes. She said the arrhythmia is not concerning because it coincides with my breath patterns. "Babies do it" she says.

As long as she's checking your BP regularly. The diastolic pressure is a bit high, but as your normal BP is 100/60, it won't necessarily be consistently high. If you start feeling faint - check your BP.

That counsellor sounds absolutely dreadful. Do you have health insurance or is private therapy a possibility? You may get it for around £45 per session. Is that out of the question?

If you're having suicidal thoughts, you really should be referred to a psychiatrist.

^I meant if you feel faint once you start the beta blockers.

Yes, she said that. I am a bit woozy but not dizzy IYSWIM.

I am not suicidal, btw. Death is attractive but I can't contemplate leaving the DC. Although I imagine/catastrophise their deaths, DH's and my own multiple times a day, it's not something I currently wish for. I cannot help but explore methods and locations, and I reject each one for inconvenience/trauma/risk/danger to others.

I have previously been actively suicidal; I am not now, and I know the difference. Ennui isn't the same and it doesn't equal depression. Depression doesn't describe me, and I don't recognise its symptoms.

Thanks for your input, btw. It helps so much to have sanity check on things. I've been so lonely, and your voices in the dark have been invaluable.

Oh MrsP I don't know if I have the right words to help you but really empathise with the catastrophising and constant state of panic you've described. I've had therapists tell me it's impossible to stay in a high state of panic for more than a short-medium amount of time, which I can wholeheartedly confirm as utter rubbish. This prolonged anxiety is completely draining and exhausting, let alone the other issues that are worrying you.

I really hope the beta blockers and diazepam give some relief and peace from a mind that doesn't rest. Take good care of yourself and be kind to yourself, too