Any creative ideas for supervised contact?

[meiisme]

My lawyer has asked me to come up with 'creative ideas' for supervised contact between my X and DC, because of his specific set of circumstances.

X was abusive to both DC and me. He also suffers from serious (diagnosed) PTSD, is very controlling, likes to play power games and could be deported if he doesn't have direct contact with the children. DC haven't seen him since the start of the family court case two years ago. At the moment he sends them birthday/Christmas presents with cards and I send him pictures of the DC.

Soon this will progress to indirect contact through mail and drawings both ways. CAFCASS recommends this should continue for 18 months, after which he could apply for supervised contact.

My lawyer wants to give the judge some ideas of what that could look like, because this judge understands the situation well and it would be good if he would lay out a direction for progress of contact in his decision.

So does anybody have ideas? Neither him nor me have anybody that could supervise, so ultimately it would have to be me (joy...). What can I put in place to keep his opportunities for control and abuse to a minimum?

I'm mostly concerned about keeping the influence of his attitude to people and relationships to a minimum, but it is of course impossible to mamage every second of every interaction. He behaves better in public, and when he only has to pretend to be a somewhat healthy person for short periods, so I was thinking about a few hours contact every few weeks in a public setting.

Is contact at a specialist centre not an option?

Almost xpost there. Why on earth is this your problem? Contact centre.

If he is abusive it shouldn't be your problem to supervise ( cant. Be safe for either of you anyway) and it really is t your problem for you to think of fun stuff to do, surely?

Contact centre - no other option. If he isn't supervised what is to stop him abusing you or the children again?

Why would you expose them to this?

What a bizarre instruction from your solicitor . Are they not familiar with access arrangements?

It's not my decision to expose them to him, it's the judge's and it's pretty clear it's going to happen. Ordereing 'mum' to supervise contact is more common than you'd think in these situations.

Supervised contact would start out in a contact centre, but CAFCASS only funds a limited amount of sessions and DC would need it till they're (near) adults. A contact centre also wouldn't have someone in the room at all times, which would be needed as well. That kind of supervision costs £80 per hour! He will do anything to not work and claim poverty, and I won't be able to pay that for the near future either, if ever.

And it's not all about money and contact centre or not, me supervising or not. It's also about finding mechanisms/settings that limit his toxidity to a minimum. Activities that keep the interaction focussed and agreements about communication, safety valves if things go wrong, etc. Hence the 'creative' ideas.

I know that othere women have had to allow contact with an abusive dad, and am wondering if they came up with anything that gets the best out of it for the DC.

Why are you helping your ex? He abused you and your children and refuses to pay for them? Why wouldn't you want him deported and far away to protect your family?

Vivacia, I know! I'm a bit stumped as well and when I see her Monday I'll ask her more about what she means. She is an expert though, recommended by Women's Aid and CAFCASS, so she must have her reasons. It does seem as if both her and the judge are looking at me for solutions, which is painfully reminiscient of SW, counsellors and GP involved while we were still together. If I knew what the solution was to keep them safe I would have proposed it before things got really ugly.

Professionals involved keep saying that this is an extroadinary case but when I ask why don't get further than that all of us have therapeutic intervention. And that cannot be that extraodinary after a relationship that came close to collective psychosis... I mean, most women and children I know who have come out of similarly controlled situations have needed professional help.

So what happens if ypu tell them you've had a really long hard think about it but there are no solutions you can come up with other than fully supervised contact by someone other than yourself as you are not prepared to be the facilitator with your abusive ex partner?

I would echo pulps suggestion - say you've thought about it and he will need to find a supervisor who you both agree on to supervise contact, preferably to be held in the community e.g a public place. I understand your concern that the judge can order you to supervise however if you set out that it's an unfeasible option it would be quite silly of them to do so.

Don't know what happens if I say I want fully supervised contact by someone not me, but I'll put it to the lawyer on Monday. It just feels like we're at standstill and people are looking at me to make a move. Anyway, it will be good to have a decision after two years of uncertainty.

Are there any charities (family mediation centres) nearby that offer either free sessions or ones on a sliding scale donation according to income like {{http://www.familymediationlothian.co.uk/fees_and_suggested_donations.html these]] people?

Also, can the cost of contact be born by your ex? Either wholly or in part. Also, the diagnosis of PTSD might help him access charities that are out of reach to you (for example ex-service or warzone charities if the PTSD comes from being in a warzone e.g. Help for Heroes, Freedom from Torture). they may be able to advise on this or provide support.

Ahem [[http://www.familymediationlothian.co.uk/fees_and_suggested_donations.html these people]]

these people

Thanks Rosy for that link. I'll have a proper look tonight. I think the organisation that will help initiate indirect contact is similar, it's called ProContact. Their initial help will be funded (legal aid and CAFCASS). The £80 per hour is what they charge for full supervision after that period. Maybe we do just have to suck up the cost, and I would have at least 18 months to figure out how to pay for it.

And good idea about charities on his side. He sees people at a charity for victims of torture and they have been helpful with that kind of thing. I'll pass that idea on to my lawyer :).

I know I'm running ahead of myself with worrying about this problem, but I'm scared that after the initial 18 months of indirect contact I'll be left to sort out progression to direct contact with him without help of court. And I know lawyer and judge don't want that either. That's why she wants us to come up with solutions now, so that a less clued-up judge in a follow-on case wouldn't send me off to deal with in on my own. Because however it might seem to people on the outside, I'm not interested in helping him, I'm just trying to work with what court is throwing at me and find a sustainable solution for the next 12 or so years.

Mediation is not recommended at all if there has been abuse within the relationship.

I would find another firm of Solicitors to work with if you're being told to come up with "creative ideas" re supervised contact. He should not even have any form of supervised contact given his past abuse of you all. You would never want to meet him again for very good reason and nor should your children be at all subjected to him in any way, shape or form. If they have to see their dad then it should be only in a contact centre and not a public place.

Was his abuse of you and the children ever documented in terms of police, GP reports etc?.

I suppose the best thing to wish for is that his MH worsens to the extent that he either kills himself or gets locked up, which would keep you all safe from him. Though getting him deported would be good as well.

I get the impression that, to an extent, his horrible behaviour is due to something terrible having happened to him, but at the same time, you and the DCs are the ones who take priority. Good luck.

Yeah, I would like him to disappear from the face of the earth too. But I had DC with him and that means he will always be in their lives somehow, whether in person or by absence iykwim. But don't worry, I'm not going into mediation with him. Tried that when still together and it was the textbook example of why mediation is bad in abusive situations. Which afterwards our family therapist (from his charity) agreed with. She just hadn't realised how scared I was .

The problem with deportation is (research shows, professionals say) that it could easily lead to the DC blaming themselves or me, idolising him and trying to seek contact behind my back. Which would be bad in any situation, but esp when dad lives in a warzone. Whether I think this overrides damage he could do when in their lives (and I'm torn about this) is not really an issue. It's the view of the professionals involved and something that seems to be 'party line' in family court.

Problem is that although abuse was documented, there wasn't enough proof of the worst physical abuse so that incident is not allowed to be taken into consideration in the professionals' opinions and judge's decision. Although most of them do seem to believe he did it, which makes it all quite kafkaesk.

I do have principal objections to deporting people, but am sane enough to make an exception when it keeps us safe. He's had so many chances to be serious about managing his issues, and I just don't believe that he will. He has been through hell and back several tims in his life, but as I always say to women on here in similar situations: there is nothing I can do to change that for him.

It's just so sad there doesn't seem to be a positive way out of this. Either DC see him and will most likely be damaged by him or they don't see him and they will be damaged from missing him.

Thanks for listening all :). It's good to discuss this with real people for once, rather than professionals who seem to ride their own horses and don't feel very comfortable with my anxious, soul searching way of approaching things.

I take your point about the DC and would suggest preparing them for the idea that Daddy is too ill to be a good daddy and not able to look after them. In a way, the fact that you can provide a narrative other than 'Daddy is a shit and Mummy was dumb enough to marry him' is good for the DC - though the truth may well be that he would become an abuser without the war he was involved in, a child can perhaps feel more comfortable with the idea of a father who became ill/horrible/dangerous because something awful happened to him that was nothing to do with anything the child did.