Porn?

[goodtimesroll]

I have been with my boyfriend for a couple of years now. Although we had quite a tough start to our relationship (he has a child from a previous relationship) things have been getting better and better between us. We love and care for eachother hugely and are both determined to make things work despite it being a tough situation. He is without a doubt the man I want to marry and to be the father of my children.

That being said there are some things I am struggling with - porn being one of them.We discussed porn a few months ago, he watches it on his phone. Without going into the rights and wrongs of it, I am 100% not happy/comfortable with it - both because it is utterly disrespectful to me and because of the obvious exploitation of women in that "industry". It makes my skin crawl and my blood boil. I explained to him how I felt about it and he seemed almost surprised... "all men look at porn".... "do you really think your previous boyfriends didn't" etc etc. I know all men don't look at it and I don't care what previous boyfriends did, that's not relevant now. He took what I said seriously and said that until now he had never connected looking at porn and being in a relationship - he didn't think one affected the other. To me it does, I find myself thinking about it far too much - when we are being intimate or anytime really. There is nothing I do behind his back and it feels strange to have this elephant in the room - for me it puts a distance between us and I hate it. As much as I do hate it it obviously isnt a deal breaker as I would have ended things by now - I dont want to throw away all the good in our relationship for this. So, do you just try and move on and ignore it? Although it was obvious how I felt I didn't ask him to stop doing it - it would be easy to continue to do it and hide it so there didnt seem much point in that. I feel like I want to know if he has actually taken on board what I said and whether he has changed his habits - guessing this is highly unlikely? Perhaps I need to be more confident talking/asking about it but I think I would almost feel like a chastising mother!

From what I've read on here it seems quite often that watching porn may develop into other online activities etc...web cams, chats etc. That for me would be an absolute deal breaker. Does one naturally follow the other? This modern age of laptops, ipads, phones, webcams etc etc absolutely terrifies me - it seems to be so easy to do things behind your partner's back. It seems somehow people justify it as it is online and if your other half doesn't know about it then it is fine. Is this something you would raise now? I wonder if I should make my feelings explicitly clear on how I would feel about that? To me that is cheating. In the same way getting a lap dance on a stag do or other such things.

Just wondering if anyone feels the same/ has any opinions on this?

There's not much you can do about it if you don't consider it to be a deal breaker. He obviously won't stop, so you are now the one who has to give in and put up with an unacceptable behaviour to you whilst he gets to carry on wanking to porn. Not hard to see who got the shit end of the stick there.

For what it's worth I don't think watching porn automatically means he will progress onto harder stuff (no pun intended) like webcam chats etc, but obviously it's easily accessible and very heavily advertised on porn sites so it's a chance you'll have to take if you want to continue ignoring this despite your strong feelings about it.

No, one doesn't naturally flow from one to the other - at least if it does the menfolk have managed to hide it well.

There are many men who watch porn and only watch porn. There are many men that don't watch porn (it's some kind of fallacy that all men do). There are lots of men that used to, but don't anymore. And there are men who don't watch porn but use camgirl sites. Or use both.

Basically there is no boundary whatsoever. Every single person will have a different view and approach to it. As a bad example, it's a bit like saying "All women watch Sex and the City". I fucking hate that show with the passion of a thousand suns, and have been forced to endure maybe tree episodes. Loads of my friends treat it like some kind of pseudo cult.

I do think however that this is not something that you should just be sweeping under the carpet if it's important to you. It's a pretty poor relationship if you "turn a blind eye" to some form of behaviour in order to protect your self esteem, or your respect in him. Personally I think this is the kind of thing that needs to be worked out, and can be a deal breaker. You say you don't want it to be, but I don't think you get a choice on that if it's already putting distance between you.

I think you need to sit down with him. The excuse "all men do it" is one of the laziest, unoriginal (and untrue) in the book. Is his child a daughter? Ask him how he would feel if someone was wanking off to a video of her. Or if she was having to do the things in the video, many of which are very painful. Ask him if he actually knows anything about the porn industry, or whether he has just lazily been wanking off to videos for all this time with no thought whatsoever to the welfare of the people in the videos. Ask him how he would feel if you were wanking off to videos of ridiculously proportioned men that the video treated like a piece of meat.

If he doesn't get it, I don't really understand why you would want to stay with him. He totally has a choice to completely disregard your feelings on this. If wanking off to a video is more important than your feelings, then he has the option to leave.

I guess its no different to a vegan in a relationship with a meat-eater. Hard to see a way forward on the issue if he doesn't share your objections, and isn't convinced by the anti-porn argument.

Even if you ask him how do you know he will be honest about it?

I agree with you that I wouldn't tolerate it, and it is certainly a deal breaker for me.

Unbeknownst to me, my ex was a heavy porn user and with him it did lead on to many other things. But I don't think everyone does that. But if you are against porn alone, and it is a dealbreaker for you - then that is fine. You are allowed whatever boundaries you like.

I know I could not be with a porn user now. I disagree with the ethics and morals of the whole industry, objectification and abuse of women, etc...

Watching porn certainly does not mean he'll go on to use webcams or worst.

Sadly I think for a certain generation and younger most men (not all) do or have used porn. For me that doesn't make it better, it makes it infinitely worse.

If "all" men are now ok with women being described in the most disgusting, derogatory terms whilst being fucked horribly in every orifice, for their (free) pleasure, something has to change. We already live in a world where misogyny and sexism are seen, experienced and excused every single day, if this situation with freely available porn continues, I fear for women's position in society and frankly I could weep for my daughters.

And all that is before going into the abuse and exploitation that goes on in the industry itself.

Ask him if he like the words slut, slag, whore. Ask him to tell you what the equivalent names for men are. Ask him if he'd be happy with his daughters being fucked like a porn film because that's where young boys are learning about sex from. Ask him if he's ok with women's bodies being exploited for his wanking pleasure. All these things he's complicit in if he's ok wanking to porn. HTH.

Sorry, I got a bit ranty.

Is all porn like that then, Hooty ? (apart from the porn women enjoy, obvs)

Of course not, but the most widely available stuff through the most popular porn tube sites is.

Naice - yes I think I agree and it is hard to ignore

Kay - agree with your comments. SATC included - god I hate that programmme!!! I did raise some of those points before and I dont think - because it's easier not to - that he has really given any thought to all those things. I do find it hard to think that you could be so unaware of the exploitation of which you are a part if you view such material

newyear - agree, I really do struggle with the abuse/objectification etc...it makes me feel sick. I can understand how you would want to be with someon else.

Hooty - couldn't agree more and I thought/hoped, because he is an intelligent man whom I love and respect, that he might be more aware/not turn a blind eye to the hideous reality of that industry. He is totally complicit in all of that and that is hard to reconcile with someone you know to be so kind and gentle. It's just all too easy isn't - for the viewer! Rant away ;-)

It's tough because, sadly IMO, the use of porn has become so normalised that most people who use it don't think about the wider implications at all, "everyone does it" so it can't be that damaging right?

I know there are some women who would never consider being with a man who admitted to ever enjoying pornography, some women who are fine with it and also watch it, to each her own. I'm personally somewhere in between. I hate pornography, but I accept that certainly for men of a certain age, it's almost expected that they should be ok with porn even if they don't use it themselves. I'd rather seek to challenge those attitudes in a partner, rather than perceive all porn users as bad people, they're not.

If I found my partner using it, I wouldn't bin him straight away, but if he refused to see the wider implications I would. I have fairly strong views on feminism, politics and religion and I need a partner who is on the same page as me at his core. That doesn't mean we have to agree 100% on everything, but I couldn't be with someone who's views were diametrically opposed to mine IYSWIM.

I also think there's an argument that, since most men would argue that their use of pornography is not a big thing and isn't a huge part of who they are, they should be ok to give it up if it's a deal breaker for their partner. If they can't give up porn, or simply don't want to, they should be brave enough to admit that porn is actually important to them and maybe find someone who is more compatible with that stance, plenty of women enjoy porn or are at least ok with it.

Hooty, agreed and your last point is really interesting and I hadn't thought of it that way before. You cant really argue it both ways! If I did something which he was really uncomfortable with/found morally abhorrent I'm fairly confident I'd stop doing it or, like you say, realise you are not similar people and move on

Personally I'd find that a big turn off and it would definitely make me feel very uncomfortable, really now and again looking at soft stuff is probably ok with me, but any grown man using it regularly whilst having a sex life with me would be a no no. Saying that, how the hell do you Police it, he'll just hide it better. I just find it strange that grown men are feeling the need to watch this shit, and that is what it is, especially online, it's full of abuse. We all have different tolerances, you are right to air your uneasiness about this, if he can't at least try and give it a rest, I think he has a problem.

Jan - I couldn't agree more. Seriously! Thinking about it more it has made me realise that it is not something which is going to go away for me. I don't want to spend my life thinking he is doing something which I find so vile. I really need to speak to him again about it. Thank you for your input.

Well if porn is more important to him that you, there's your answer. Good luck!

than not that

First things first - I never had a problem with porn. And then I married someone who struggles to control his porn watching, and oh boy have I found some stuff out.

In terms of him stopping, I'm not sure. It may be that you can ask him to stop and he will. It may also be that you can ask him to stop and he'll take this to mean 'I need to hide it better'.

My primary problem with porn is that I think it gives an utterly false impression of female sexuality, and how men should be expected to interact with us. And this is in a culture where we are already objectified, and already presented quite falsely, a lot of the time, in media.

I think for some people porn can become quite a serious problem. Not always, but for some people, and I suspect for more people than anyone realises. I guess I see it like alcohol - some people don't drink at all for various reasons. Some people drink and enjoy it and it's fine. Some people get into serious trouble. The difference though, for me, is that alcohol does have, in some circumstances, a positive social effect, and encourages/lubricates relations with others. After all - a big 'bad sign' with alcohol is drinking alone. But with porn, I feel like it starts from that position - from it being something done alone. Basically, I struggle to think of a positive effect of porn, aside from facilitating orgasms - which could be facilitated in other ways!

Anyway. I also think (and have seen up close) that porn use really can damage people's ability to have healthy sexual relationships in quite an insidious and severe way. There are some pretty interesting places online to look into it - reddit is a good place, there is a 'pornfree' board where men who have quit porn talk about it, and their discoveries are quite surprising, in terms of the effect that quitting porn has on them. Yourbrainonporn is also a good resource.

To stop rambling - if you want him to stop, I would discuss it with him, in as non-judgemental way as you can. Don't minimise your feelings about it, they're important, but I think a lot of men, unfortunately, have porn-watching much more ingrained as a habit than they even think they do - and they find it quite hard to even consider stopping. It's sad, really, but I guess given that it's such a 'normal' thing to do these days, not really surprising. Treat it as an experiment, perhaps - just to see what effect giving up porn has on him. He might actually like it! I know I've seen quite massive positive changes.

oops, sorry, megapost.

LastTango - thank you so much for that information. I will definitely look at those resources before I speak to him again. Knowledge is power ;-) I think you are completely right, from what he was saying before it does seem like a habitual thing rather than a conscious decision. But now he needs to consider it.

Thank you all so much for your replies - I really appreciate you taking the time out if your day to do so!

*of!

Would love to know what the norm is today with porn. Are most men using it? Are most wives ok with that? Or do they hate it? Seems to be very little info around.
Also seems to me if a man uses porn and his dp complains, the man just lies about stopping and carries on.

Its a funny old world.

Truth is most men have never been very comfortable with sexual monogamy. Porn is just one way they've found to live out the large part of themselves that monogamy doesn't touch, while still enjoying emotional intimacy with someone they love, having children, living a socially approved lifestyle etc.

The thing he said about having "never connected looking at porn and being in a relationship - he didn't think one affected the other" is spot on. That'll be how he feels, and it's how most men feel. You feel otherwise, and you can have all the earnest discussions about it you like but you're unlikely to make him feel otherwise.

It's your call really. If you stay with him, you're probably going to have to accept it as a reality of your life together to some degree or another. If you can't do that, you're probably better off being honest about it (with yourself, as much as anything) now.

Just be careful of the earnest conversation that results in him swearing to never look at it again out of loving respect for you and a sudden unexpected surge of feminist righteousness. It'll almost certainly be bullshit.

Its not true that all men do it, really its not.
What is the age group of men for whom porn is normalised?
I have never seen any and I have had the kind of relationships with previous partners and my husband where they certainly would have told me if they used it. Is it the under 35s who use it?

I really don't know what 'the norm' is. I know that there hasn't been person -man or woman- I've spoken to about it who doesn't watch it sometimes. But that's people aged maybe 25-35, who'd have had the Internet from quite a young age. Almost all university educated, if that makes a difference. These are not people you'd think we're seedy or immoral- they're my friends!

Interestingly the women I know who watch more porn are either single or lesbians. The ones in Herero couples, not so much.

Again, not suggesting this is the norm- it's just how it looks to me.

apologies for a zillion phone typos

Yes to Wackadoodle + LastTango. Two sides to everything. Other people have different views.

Porn does not bother. 99.9999999% is produced by consenting women.

Most women visiting sperm banks will have had their conception helped via porn.

On sexual health issues, you can regard porn as some the safest sex men will have.

There's also the positive health benefit of males ejaculating frequently. Prostate problems can lead to urinal problems at best, cancer and death at worst.

Would you be as happy denying a man porn/wank if he denied you a breast check/smear test?

"Would you be as happy denying a man porn/wank if he denied you a breast check/smear test?"

That is not even remotely the same thing dude. And saying it is makes you sound like an idiot. Perhaps rethink.

No. Have a look at the prostate statistics.