Porn?

[goodtimesroll]

I have been with my boyfriend for a couple of years now. Although we had quite a tough start to our relationship (he has a child from a previous relationship) things have been getting better and better between us. We love and care for eachother hugely and are both determined to make things work despite it being a tough situation. He is without a doubt the man I want to marry and to be the father of my children.

That being said there are some things I am struggling with - porn being one of them.We discussed porn a few months ago, he watches it on his phone. Without going into the rights and wrongs of it, I am 100% not happy/comfortable with it - both because it is utterly disrespectful to me and because of the obvious exploitation of women in that "industry". It makes my skin crawl and my blood boil. I explained to him how I felt about it and he seemed almost surprised... "all men look at porn".... "do you really think your previous boyfriends didn't" etc etc. I know all men don't look at it and I don't care what previous boyfriends did, that's not relevant now. He took what I said seriously and said that until now he had never connected looking at porn and being in a relationship - he didn't think one affected the other. To me it does, I find myself thinking about it far too much - when we are being intimate or anytime really. There is nothing I do behind his back and it feels strange to have this elephant in the room - for me it puts a distance between us and I hate it. As much as I do hate it it obviously isnt a deal breaker as I would have ended things by now - I dont want to throw away all the good in our relationship for this. So, do you just try and move on and ignore it? Although it was obvious how I felt I didn't ask him to stop doing it - it would be easy to continue to do it and hide it so there didnt seem much point in that. I feel like I want to know if he has actually taken on board what I said and whether he has changed his habits - guessing this is highly unlikely? Perhaps I need to be more confident talking/asking about it but I think I would almost feel like a chastising mother!

From what I've read on here it seems quite often that watching porn may develop into other online activities etc...web cams, chats etc. That for me would be an absolute deal breaker. Does one naturally follow the other? This modern age of laptops, ipads, phones, webcams etc etc absolutely terrifies me - it seems to be so easy to do things behind your partner's back. It seems somehow people justify it as it is online and if your other half doesn't know about it then it is fine. Is this something you would raise now? I wonder if I should make my feelings explicitly clear on how I would feel about that? To me that is cheating. In the same way getting a lap dance on a stag do or other such things.

Just wondering if anyone feels the same/ has any opinions on this?

But teenagers are determined and ingenious. If they really want to see it they'll find a way, just like you found a way to get your hands on those magazines. For older teens there's also the issue of privacy and trust. When do you trust them with a laptop unsupervised? Raising teens is a tricky business and the internet doesn't make it any easier.

And yes I would do all those things you mentioned, but I think it's naive to think that all parents will do the same.

Again, I think this comes back to the alcohol thing. Sure, if they try hard enough they might circumvent controls etc, just as they might get served in an offy or might get into your drinks cabinet. But the idea that the internet is a floodgate sluicing porn into your house in a way that you have no hope of controlling just isn't true.

Of course you're never going to be able to stop your kids experiencing things you'd rather they didn't - that's part of growing up, trying to get one over on your parents. But you can make sure that they're not waist deep in anal gangbangs before they're old enough to make their own choices about this stuff.

I realise many people will think I'm a bit antedeluvian on this point, but I think family time is important and don't allow my kids to have TVs or laptops in their rooms. If they need the computer for homework, they use their own login on our iMac, and as computer administrator I can see everything they've been doing. Their other devices - they're too young for phones, but do have iPod touches - are locked down tight. Any apps they want to install have to be done under my iTunes login, to which they don't know the password. Parental controls are activated, and tight. The iPods don't go upstairs with them at night. That's more about stopping them turning into antisocial little screenhogs, but the inappropriate content thing is a welcome side effect. And again, it's not really about trust - I wouldn't let a teenager have a cabinet full of booze in their room, so I won't be letting mine have electronic devices in there either. Shrug. If they want to have a beer fridge when the day comes that they're not living under my roof, that's fine - not my business. When that day comes they can also look at their phones wherever they like, but not before.

There's no real excuse in 2015 for not being tech-savvy enough to stay one step ahead of your kids and in full control of the devices kept in your house. Computers and security and internet porn have been a fact of life for 20 years now - parents pleading lack of IT literacy or "my kids are so much better on the computer than me doesn't wash with me. What, are they better at reading and tying their shoelaces too? LEARN!*

I think a big part of the difference between 'old fashioned' porn - even video porn, but especially skin mags etc, comes down to imagination.

Erotic media has always been available. However, until recently, it was an aid to masturbation. Viewing was supposed to titillate. To inspire. A person would see these images and bounce off them, create their own psychological erotic landscape.

Now, we are dealing with the idea that any fantasy, any specific desire, any combination or look, can be found, in HD detail, online, at any moment. That is what we're encouraged to do - to define our interests by taking them outside ourselves, to a place where we're passive observers, rather than actively invested.

For a lot of people, this might not matter. Reality remains more appealing. But I think for a significant subset - maybe people inclined this way already, maybe people who for whatever reason find themselves watching more porn than others, maybe other reasons - this availability, this lack of the need for personal input, becomes part of their sexual and emotional makeup. And I think this can make things difficult, when it comes to 'real' sexual life - where things tend not to go so much to plan!

fulb, I totally understand why you feel the way you do. A lot of people I talk to find the concept of porn being damaging very hard to grasp, perhaps because either it doesn't damage them, or they don't think it does, or for whatever reason. My opinion, though, we are seeing more people and relationships damaged by it, and I don't think it's something people want to admit to or discuss.

I honestly urge you to check out the reddit board - it's a really good example of the types of regular, smart, decent guys who've found themselves unable to control their porn watching.

I don't disagree, LastTango - I'm no starry-eyed porn advocate. I think it's definitely possible to overuse it, and that overusing it might mess up your sex life. But, like drinking, porn in moderation probably doesn't have that effect.

Lots of regular, smart, decent guys (and women) have also found themselves in a downward spiral of drink dependency, too. The more I think about it, the more I like your alcohol analogy. It's a grown-up thing that you don't want kids to experience, and which - if taken too much or too young - can really fuck you up. But that doesn't mean I think it's an outright evil, and I certainly wouldn't agree with those who like to claim that it's all, or even mostly, violent or misogynistic or only features women who have been driven to it by desperation (which was my main gripe with what has been said by some on the thread).

Fulb Well in that case we're pretty much in agreement!

I totally agree that the idea that the women in porn are all abused victims is a) silly and b) pretty offensive to those women. Nor do I agree that it is by default 'violent' or assault.

I think it is almost all.... not misogynistic, maybe. Presents women's sexuality more inaccurately than mens, in a role that is more often that not designed to 'please' men, at the expense of 'pleasing' women, in a culture where women are already often falsely presented, marginalised and encouraged to 'please' men. However, I don't really think this is the fault of the porn viewer. I think this is chicken/egg and I actually think most men wouldn't mind, or would even prefer, a more realistic depiction of female sexuality in the porn they watch.

Most porn just bugs the shit out of me on that front. You can always tell a man who's gotten his main ideas about sex from porn - he's crap in bed! And I know just about nobody wants to be crap in bed! And I don't get why porn needs to have that effect, you know? Like, to give a crude example - watching a woman masturbate can be sexy for a man. Cool. Why not have her masturbate realistically? I just don't see the point of these scenarios where 99% of women will tell you 'that is never going to work', yet an awful lot of men are seeing it 'work', over and over. It's just... wrong. And if I were to extend that, I find it hard not to see a deepseated and weird standard in porn, of women NOT enjoying themselves. Which would be misogynistic - but, again, not on the part of some 18 year old who probably doesn't even realise the difference, you know? And I don't even know where it comes from. It's like an agentless misogyny, just floating around or something.

You just have to hope that when they get to a real girl and try this shit, she's going to go 'dude that doesn't work'. But it puts the onus on us women to correct a bunch of wrong behaviour. Which is annoying!

Not saying it doesn't work both ways, either - I hear a lot from men about the 'pornification' of women they sleep with, that they think men want them to act like porn. Which men might not actually enjoy, in real life.

AARGHHH. It's just... WHY?

If anyone thinks that mostly porn isn't misogynistic, I challenge you to go onto the world's most popular porn tube site and see the sort of stuff that's on there and the language that's used to describe the women, then come back here and say it's not misogynistic.

Ok not all porn is like that, but that's where most people get their porn from these days (otherwise it wouldn't be the most popular porn site).

The porn landscape has changed immeasurably in the last decade. As I said upthread, the fact that it's so freely available and "everyone" does it, is why it offends me so much. If people say they're ok with porn, that's fine, but they should know what it is they're saying they're fine with, because it's very different from how it was 10-20 years ago.

If anyone thinks that mostly porn isn't misogynistic, I challenge you to go onto the world's most popular porn tube site and see the sort of stuff that's on there and the language that's used to describe the women, then come back here and say it's not misogynistic

People who watch porn know what's out there better than the non-porn users do!

I hate to have to tell you but we don't need to go and search. We've actually learnt how to search for our tastes and avoid the stuff that's not for us.

I guess as a non-user you'd not appreciate that as you'd not know any better seeing this all you've done is avoid it all.

I watch porn, but the stuff I like, not the stuff you're talking about. I choose carefully otherwise I wouldn't be watching something I liked and that would be a turn off.

I can find what porn I want easily enough and avoid what I don't like, it's not difficult. If I had to wade through some of the extreme BDSM stuff or extreme fetish stuff it'd put me of sex for life, not just porn! Likewise I wouldn't sit and watch stuff that falls into the category you're talking about.

So for me as a porn watcher my tastes and ethics fall to choosing wisely rather than abstaining. Likewise, I'd not be with my DH if I thought he was into anything that tally with my ethics as that would be a deal breaking just as any porn use would be for somebody anti porn full stop.

I didn't say there wasn't less misogynistic stuff out there, I'm merely making the assertion that the most commonly used sites in the world are misogynistic. Which means that the easiest stuff to find, if you're inexperienced, is misogynistic, and the stuff that is most viewed is misogynistic.

Cor, you've done your homework, Hooty. All that research must've taken its toll.

Listen... (Confiding whisper) If you want my advice, I'd lay off the porn for a bit. It can really mess you up, you know. And it makes you blind.

the easiest stuff to find, if you're inexperienced, is misogynistic, and the stuff that is most viewed is misogynistic

I don't think you need to worry about that Hooty. The OP's BF is a habitual porn user. He should be able to easily search for what he likes.

Therefore, my thoughts would be to see what's he's into.

If the OP is anti porn full stop then there's no need.

I got the impression from her OP though that this may not be the case, in which case WHAT he watches may make the difference.

If it's the stuff your on about, I as a porn user would ditch as that would be a deal breaker. If it's not, there's not such a problem.

There are grey areas with porn in terms of tolerance and production. For many this wouldn't be a black and white issue. I'm trying to provide that balance

Fulb - thanks for the advice. I've never claimed to be some sort of expert on internet pornography, but at the same time I don't see the point in taking a hard line view on something if you don't understand what it is you're taking a view on. Someone upthread got criticised for being anti-porn having not seen any porn, so which would you prefer?

I've not made any judgments on this thread about people who use porn, far from it (actually quite the opposite reading my comments back). I've made some assertions about the fact that the availability of porn and the type of stuff being produced has changed in recent years and and I've given my view on the potential effect on society, which you can either agree with or not.

Oh and it's not porn that sends you blind it's wanking. On that score it's fair to say we're pretty much all destined for blindness

I don't know fulb- as someone who HAS watched a fair bit of porn I'd tend to agree that female positive porn tends to be more difficult to find, or that the 'average' porn is not positive about women. I mean it is common to the point of standard to come across something that, if you were to do it unexpectedly to a woman in a real life consensual sex situation, would get you a label of 'impolite' at best, and quite likely an even harsher reaction. I'm thinking in particular of anal sex, but even things like facials, deep throating, or some language. I feel like it would be safer and healthier for everyone to admit this fact, really.

oh and joysmum I totally agree about what someone watches / seeks out making a massive difference.

Not sure I'm on board with the 'it makes you seek out more and more hardcore stuff' theory to be honest- I think a lot of people find what they like and stick to it!