Sex problems

[MrClueless]

Very long post, sorry!

Hello, I'm a man and I'd like some advice from women because I just don't know what to do anymore.

DP and I have been together for 10 years, we're in our early 30's, no children, and unmarried. When we first got together, and for about the first 18 months, we had sex regularly and it was great.

DP has always suffered from anxiety, since she was a child. About 18 months into our relationship she went to the doctor and started taking anti-depresents (SSRIs). Almost immediately, her libido was affected, and the sex became less regular until it became non-existent. It's been that was for around 8 and a half years now. Not just PIV either, there has been no contact at all (not even kissing). We do cuddle though.

Our lives have changed a lot throughout this time. When we met she was in university (as was I). Then she got a job in a shop. Then went back to university. Then got a career that she wanted and has been there since. So I don't think it's so much to do with current circumstances such as work/etc... as it's been a long term thing and a lot has happened in that time.

My DP is the most amazing woman I have ever met and I'm madly in love with her. I'm convinced she feels the same way. Besides the sex, our relationship is great in every other way. We have fun, laugh, and support one another. I do the bulk of the housework, on account of me enjoying it more. We talk well and when we argue (not often) it's all quite mature. I don't keep secrets from her, and we're both very open about things. Anyway... the point of this paragraph is that the relationship is otherwise going very well and we couldn't be happier.

My problem (and it is very much 'my' problem) is that sex is important to me. Without it, I have felt rejected, unattractive, and so on. DP is very apologetic about it, and I hate that she feels bad and guilty about this issue because I feel like I'm bringing her down when I talk about it.

I'm convinced that the problem is related to her medication. SSRIs are well known to cause sexual dysfunction. The problem started just as she started taking it, and things were fine before. There is no history of abuse, bad relationships, or anything like that in her life. Apart from a fairly busy job, she does not have any major stressors in her life (no ill relatives, no money problems, etc).

I have literally had to beg over the years for her to see a doctor about the medication. She has in the past (to be fair, during emotional conversations about our sex problems) said that she doesn't see a lack of sex in her life as a problem, it's not on her mind, and that's why she hasn't been enthusiastic about it. She's also said she was embarrassed to go to the doctor. Eventually she went (about 5 years ago), I went with her but was sworn to keep my mouth shut (fair enough), and she didn't really mention the sex problems but just asked for a different medication and gave some vague reasons... the doctor gave her a different SSRI.

I asked her to go again, and she kept putting it off until about 18 months ago. We went again and she was more open about it this time; the doctor suggested she come off meds entirely ("because you've been on them too long, dear") and DP isn't willing to do that because she needs them. When I spoke to the doctor about possibly changing the medication, I was shot down like I was some leecherous sex fiend who thought of my DP as nothing but a piece of meat. This was after the doctor lectured us because we didn't want a med student present during the consultation. It was not a good experience to be honest.

Following this, I suggested we see a private psychiatrist. Again, more "Yeah, maybe"s and "Hmmm, maybe next months"s from the DP.

We then went to sexual therapy counselling. It took around a year for me to get her to go. At the start we were told that to make it work we would have to be willing to commit about an hour, 3x per week, to having intimacy. The task we were given to start off, was to just lie naked next to one another and chat... no actual sexual activity at all. A month in, it stopped working because she just didn't feel like it, and soon after the counselling stopped too.

I feel a bit resentful that DP hasn't put more effort into this. We've had long conversations on many occasions and she knows that this is something important to me. I want sex in my life, and I feel it supplements the emotional part of the relationship. I often feel that she doesn't give a damn about how I feel because if she did then she'd be more proactive about this, but then she is so kind and caring in other ways that I am reminded that she loves me.

I feel like I've been a good DP. I've not let myself go, I'm in shape, I have good hygiene. I do more than enough household chores. I am financially secure and responsible (not saying money is attractive, just that I don't stress her out with a gambling habit or huge debts or anything! :)). I treat her very well, I am kind to her family too. I've supported her emotionally over the years with going back to university and getting the career she wanted, spent countless nights proofreading and editing essays & job applications, etc. I still do the 'little things' that people do at the start of relationships to show they care. She does the same for me, too.

I just don't know what else to do. The relationship is otherwise good. I've explained the problem. I've been proactive in trying to get help for us. I've asked what I'm doing wrong. I've been open to anything she has to say. I've tried to improve myself so that maybe she'll find me more appealing. I've made her aware of how upset all this has made me. What else can I do?

I have to confess, I have thought of leaving, because I don't want a sexless life. But I feel guilty about these thoughts because I just sound like a selfish bastard. I've told her this, and she knows that as time goes out the likelihood of us lasting diminishes. Frankly, I'd have proposed to her by now if we didn't have this one single problem.

Anyway, sorry about the super long post. Please, any advice or perspective you could offer would be much appreciated. Of course, I am still in dialogue with my DP about this, but writing this has been a little therapeutic and I'm sure some of you have been through similar things and can give me a bit of strength.

Thanks.

It's not working for you. It's time to leave. You have done all you can. You don't expect too much and aren't being selfish. The relationship has run it's course.

I think you need to decide whether the lack of sex and intimacy is a deal breaker. It sounds like you have, and to be honest if I was in your shoes, I think if agree.
Has your partner had any experiences in her life that affects her view of sex? I'm not prying, but could that be part of the problem?
Has she had any talking treatments, eg CBT to help with her anxiety? Talking therapies, in the long term, might allow her to start reducing her ADs, with medical support of course.
The sexual side effects of SSRIs are well known of course, and can sometimes persist after stopping/changing them too. Is it Citalopram that she's on?
Does you partner realise just how despondent this is making you feel, or have you minimised the effect it's having on you? If you've suggested, and undertaken, sexual counselling, then perhaps not.

I don't really have any advice but didn't want to read and run. You sound like a fantastic partner and I really hope things get sorted for you both.

I would question whether she 'needs' anti-depressants though if she hasn't tried being off them in years. I imagine one of the few ways to tell if you actually need them is to come off them for a bit.

I can only suggest you might want to show her this thread. Seeing your side of things in black and white might change her perspective. Good luck.

Hi Random.

I don't think there has been any experience in her life that affects her view of sex. We talked about this in counselling, but nothing came up. She could have been withholding it of course, but I trust her and she's very open with me about this sort of thing.

She has had various talking therapies over the years. Nothing currently because she didn't find it effective. She's been anxious since she was around 10 years old and up until I met her had had an extensive history of taking meds on and off, and going to therapy.

She is on seroxat right now, but was on citalopram previously. I'm of the view that an something like Wellbutrin/Bupropion might help.

It is a deal breaker to me, in a sense. In theory. But I don't want to leave her, she's really the woman I want to spend the rest of my life with. I just want to be able to have sex with her! Argh!

I think she is aware of the affect it's had on me. I try not to harp on about it too much. I don't nag her for intimacy (gave up that one long ago!). But we have had dozens of sit-down conversations about it, and counselling too.

Hi Violet.

Thanks for your comment.

The problem with the prospect of her coming off meds completely is that she has the sort of job where it would be a huge huge problem is her mental health deteriorated. Even temporarily.

Also, I wouldn't want her to potentially have to go through that stress just because I want to have sex. Y'know? I'd feel like a real jackass, too.

The meds are helping her I think, and it seems that her anxiety is going to be around long-term because she's been through the NHS machine a few times already.

My dad is mentally ill, and has been since I was about 8, so I have a lot of empathy for people who are mentally ill. My dad is seriously ill, more than just anxiety, but it took much experimentation before his psychiatrist found a combination of drugs that kept him healthy but also functional.

I think with a lot of people who have mental health problems, just prescribing them some SSRIs and giving them CBT is not comprehensive or effective enough... but that's another thread.

I with think my DP, it might just be a case of being on some meds that are known to kill one's sex drive, and going onto something different might sort out the problem.

I suppose though, this is all besides the point. I feel in a way that the actual sorting out of the problem, is secondary to me. I feel more upset about her lack of enthusiasm for sorting out the problem than I do about the problem itself IYSWIM.

Does she know that this could mean the end of your relationship? If one partner decides that there is to be no more intimacy in a relationship, then it is perfectly fair for the other partner to walk away.
Changing the AD might help, it might not. I had a very dear long term relationship break down, mostly due to the effect of SSRIs on my libido. My then GF decided she couldn't live like that. It broke my heart, but looking back I can't blame her. I wish I had dealt with it as it started to become a problem.

I did a 6 week anxiety course through my local CMHT a few years ago. It helped a lot.

Sorry to hear about that Random. Thanks for sharing the 'other side' of this situation.

I think I'm going to persist for now. I just can't imagine being without her, I could list about a thousand positive adjectives to describe her but I'll spare you all. If I can just sort this out, life will be perfect again.

The latest is that I have convinced her to see a psychiatrist since our efforts with a GP were not fruitful and a psychiatrist is likely to know more about this sort of thing. I'll go private if I have too. I'm going to start arranging it this week but already I've been met with a bit of negativity from DP which is disheartening (things like, "I don't know if I'll be able to go this month, because I'm working late every now and then"". All practical and true of course, but when the only comments are about obstacles it really is quite trying.

Anyhow, that's where it's going.

I feel sometimes like I should set a deadline in my head. Like, give it to the end of the year and if there's not been substantial progress then I should end things. But I know deep down that when I get there, I probably won't. After all, this has been going on for over 8 years now and I haven't left.

Just so torn, sad, and confused about the whole thing.

OP as a mental health 8 yrs is a long time to be on ADP's and not even want to TRY & wean off them.

You sound like you have done all the right things - your partner is being selfish .

She is not addressing your needs - perfectly reasonable needs.

I really think you need to escalate this with & discuss how this makes you want to leave. She needs a wake up call - sex cements a relationship - it is the glue that holds it all together.

You might think that you have an otherwise perfect relationship now, but in five years time? Ten? If this isn't addressed, so much resentment will build up, and the dynamic will be so radically different. Perhaps a deadline is the right idea. She really does need to know that this is a deal breaker though.

I remember once watching a parenting programme on TV where couples presented with sleep problems and were invited to try various techniques to solve the problem. One couple had young children who were up until late at night so they got no time together- think toddlers bouncing around on the couch until they crash out at gone eleven o'clock. With the therapeutic intervention, the kids learned to go to bed at seven o'clock, and we saw footage of the parents going on awkward date nights at the bowling alley because they could at last get babysitters. They broke up within three months.

The point I'm making is that rather than the sleep issues of their children being the real problem, it was actually masking the true issue, which was their basic incompatibility or disconnect.

I am wondering (if it's genuinely as you say, because I will confess that I am automatically sceptical when non-regular blokes post here, but I'm taking you at your word here) if something similar isn't going on here.

Could it be that the SSRIs are performing much the same 'useful obstacle'?

My instinctive reaction to this situation is that something is wrong here which the drugs are obscuring, and if your DP shows no interest or motivation to change things, then you have your answer: she will never really want to have sex with you. If you aren't happy with this state of affairs (and that's understandable), then you need to break up. Sad, but true.

You'll do well to find someone in this country to prescribe Wellbrutin, its only licensed as an aid to quit smoking here.

Are you sure its the drugs though. Could it be that she just doesn't want to. I'm sorry but if I'd had a normal libido and then it disappeared I would be looking for solutions.

It sounds like the change in libido happened when your relationship left the honeymoon stage. I don't believe for a second that your partner thinks you will leave her over this, and therefore why alter the status quo. If this was just a problem with medication she wouldn't already be looking for reasons to avoid going. I think after all this time this would have been sorted if your dp was willing to engage, it just looks as though she doesn't want to.

Read the threads from people who haven't had sex for decades on here...its soul crushing. Sadly I think that you will end up separating due to a basic lack of sexual compatibility it's just a question of how long you can take the rejection.

Also for what its worth you sound like a fantastic dp, you are not asking for too much and don't let anyone fool you into thinking that sex isn't important in a relationship. I think its the glue that binds really, relationships change, children etc and it can make keeping a connection with your partner difficult, sex keeps that togetherness there.

Gilded,I don't know that you would. It becomes abstract When it's gone - like maybe you have an inner ear condition that stops you jumping out of a plane, but since you don't want to parachute, that's just a piece of information.

OP, can she take some annual leave and use that to cut down/cut out the ADs?

You're not a bastard. Not at all and I think it's sad you even say that. Your partner has unilaterally decided that she and therefore you will be non sexual. That's very selfish and wrong.

I hate to say this but I don't think you've got a snowflake in hell's chance of changing this. So your choice is stark: stay and tolerate it or leave and find someone less selfish and more available sexually.
I think your partner is behaving appallingly.

Buddy, as far as I can see from your posts, your lovely loving darling wife doesn't really give a shit about you on an intimate level. You are living life on her, unreasonable, terms, and thats it. Tough. Deal with it.

I also think you've spent so long putting your needs second, you are conditioned into thinking this is normality, it's not. Equality is normal - ask yourself, am I being treated as an equal?

To be honest yes SSRIs may alter libido- but in my years nursing iv never known it STOP people from having sex ....
she can have sex whilst on ssri's - she just needs to put more effort in -and it appears that she just doesn't want to.

Insulting the wife won't help.

For the vast majority of her adult life, she has been more or less asexual. She is not that interested in changing that. The fact that she might be more sexual without ADs ignores the fact that her current way of interacting with the world, her personality, who she is, might also change without ADs. It's a huge risk for something she can't really conceive emotionally.

Yes, they may well be incompatible, but that's different.

Ultimately you either have to love someone for who they are, warts and all, incompatibilities and all.. or you have to walk away. Staying with someone who makes you unhappy hoping they will become a different person is just a big waste of time.

This is who she is and, given the reaction you've had so far, this is how it's always going to be. She can't be any happier than you are. If it's not working, even though it would be upsetting, it is better for all concerned to call time.

Very wise, Cogito.

I don't think its at all selfish to not have sex with someone when you don't want to. Nobody should have sex when they don't want to put of duty, I think that is an appalling attitude Jackie.

I think it's an incompatibility issue and the ADs are a red herring. It's her right to not want sex but I don't think it would be unreasonable of you to leave if it's a deal breaker for you.

I think it's awful that a GP would continue mindlessly rewriting scripts for 8 YEARS for ADs without even having a conversation about weaning her off. There are many effective psychogical therapies for anxiety, with CBT being the NHS favourite but not the only one.

I agree that she is the selfish one but you are facilitating this by not being clear enough about how serious this issue is. Blessed is right. ADs may dampen libido but they don't prevent people from having sex altogether.

To be honest, it sounds as though you are best friends but this is not my idea of a relationship. What was the sex like before she went on meds? Was she always a slightly lie back and think of England type? Did she always find talking about it/doing it a bit uncomfortable?

I'm sorry to say this but I think you have to accept either a life with no sex or leave to find someone more suited to you in this way. If it were me I'd leave, hands down.

I think you should leave.

In 8 years she has not tried to fix the problem, she has admitted she is happy with no sex (which is fine). In the nicest possible way I think you have a clear choice. Stay with her and remain sexless and stop badgering her to 'fix' this or leave and find someone else.

Hi clueless
I used to suffer from a type of long term sexual dysfunction (not relevant to go into details) that meant I could not have sex with my dp.

We have been together 13 years. It was always an issue for me. We were intimate, but I could not have piv sex. We talked about it a lot. What really brought it to a head was turning 30, not able to have sex, and wanting children. Bit by bit we / I got help. We worked on it togther.

His support was essential and invaluable. But the desire to change and to deal with it had to come from me. I avoided it for years. Even during treatment, it was always two steps forward, one step back. The change has taken years. It has been hard for both of us and the patience and love my dp has shown is amazing. I'm not completely over it, but dealing with it together has genuinely brought us closer.

I agree with other posters who say this is, literally, make or break. If she really can't face into this, then it may well be the end of the relationship. You should not feel guilty about that. The most you can do is support her and play your role in any treatment/therapy - you can't fix this on your own.

It's not your problem that you want to have sex with your partner. She's not unreasonable for not wanting it, but it's a basic incompatibility. 8 years isn't a phase it's the way it's gonna be.