Sex problems

[MrClueless]

Very long post, sorry!

Hello, I'm a man and I'd like some advice from women because I just don't know what to do anymore.

DP and I have been together for 10 years, we're in our early 30's, no children, and unmarried. When we first got together, and for about the first 18 months, we had sex regularly and it was great.

DP has always suffered from anxiety, since she was a child. About 18 months into our relationship she went to the doctor and started taking anti-depresents (SSRIs). Almost immediately, her libido was affected, and the sex became less regular until it became non-existent. It's been that was for around 8 and a half years now. Not just PIV either, there has been no contact at all (not even kissing). We do cuddle though.

Our lives have changed a lot throughout this time. When we met she was in university (as was I). Then she got a job in a shop. Then went back to university. Then got a career that she wanted and has been there since. So I don't think it's so much to do with current circumstances such as work/etc... as it's been a long term thing and a lot has happened in that time.

My DP is the most amazing woman I have ever met and I'm madly in love with her. I'm convinced she feels the same way. Besides the sex, our relationship is great in every other way. We have fun, laugh, and support one another. I do the bulk of the housework, on account of me enjoying it more. We talk well and when we argue (not often) it's all quite mature. I don't keep secrets from her, and we're both very open about things. Anyway... the point of this paragraph is that the relationship is otherwise going very well and we couldn't be happier.

My problem (and it is very much 'my' problem) is that sex is important to me. Without it, I have felt rejected, unattractive, and so on. DP is very apologetic about it, and I hate that she feels bad and guilty about this issue because I feel like I'm bringing her down when I talk about it.

I'm convinced that the problem is related to her medication. SSRIs are well known to cause sexual dysfunction. The problem started just as she started taking it, and things were fine before. There is no history of abuse, bad relationships, or anything like that in her life. Apart from a fairly busy job, she does not have any major stressors in her life (no ill relatives, no money problems, etc).

I have literally had to beg over the years for her to see a doctor about the medication. She has in the past (to be fair, during emotional conversations about our sex problems) said that she doesn't see a lack of sex in her life as a problem, it's not on her mind, and that's why she hasn't been enthusiastic about it. She's also said she was embarrassed to go to the doctor. Eventually she went (about 5 years ago), I went with her but was sworn to keep my mouth shut (fair enough), and she didn't really mention the sex problems but just asked for a different medication and gave some vague reasons... the doctor gave her a different SSRI.

I asked her to go again, and she kept putting it off until about 18 months ago. We went again and she was more open about it this time; the doctor suggested she come off meds entirely ("because you've been on them too long, dear") and DP isn't willing to do that because she needs them. When I spoke to the doctor about possibly changing the medication, I was shot down like I was some leecherous sex fiend who thought of my DP as nothing but a piece of meat. This was after the doctor lectured us because we didn't want a med student present during the consultation. It was not a good experience to be honest.

Following this, I suggested we see a private psychiatrist. Again, more "Yeah, maybe"s and "Hmmm, maybe next months"s from the DP.

We then went to sexual therapy counselling. It took around a year for me to get her to go. At the start we were told that to make it work we would have to be willing to commit about an hour, 3x per week, to having intimacy. The task we were given to start off, was to just lie naked next to one another and chat... no actual sexual activity at all. A month in, it stopped working because she just didn't feel like it, and soon after the counselling stopped too.

I feel a bit resentful that DP hasn't put more effort into this. We've had long conversations on many occasions and she knows that this is something important to me. I want sex in my life, and I feel it supplements the emotional part of the relationship. I often feel that she doesn't give a damn about how I feel because if she did then she'd be more proactive about this, but then she is so kind and caring in other ways that I am reminded that she loves me.

I feel like I've been a good DP. I've not let myself go, I'm in shape, I have good hygiene. I do more than enough household chores. I am financially secure and responsible (not saying money is attractive, just that I don't stress her out with a gambling habit or huge debts or anything! :)). I treat her very well, I am kind to her family too. I've supported her emotionally over the years with going back to university and getting the career she wanted, spent countless nights proofreading and editing essays & job applications, etc. I still do the 'little things' that people do at the start of relationships to show they care. She does the same for me, too.

I just don't know what else to do. The relationship is otherwise good. I've explained the problem. I've been proactive in trying to get help for us. I've asked what I'm doing wrong. I've been open to anything she has to say. I've tried to improve myself so that maybe she'll find me more appealing. I've made her aware of how upset all this has made me. What else can I do?

I have to confess, I have thought of leaving, because I don't want a sexless life. But I feel guilty about these thoughts because I just sound like a selfish bastard. I've told her this, and she knows that as time goes out the likelihood of us lasting diminishes. Frankly, I'd have proposed to her by now if we didn't have this one single problem.

Anyway, sorry about the super long post. Please, any advice or perspective you could offer would be much appreciated. Of course, I am still in dialogue with my DP about this, but writing this has been a little therapeutic and I'm sure some of you have been through similar things and can give me a bit of strength.

Thanks.

I think if there's an 'unreasonable' element it's not the sex per se but the complete absence of any form of physical intimacy or affection. Even a pet dog could expect a cuddle from time to time. No-one has to be wildly aroused to dispense a hug or a kiss.

Hi Mr Clueless,
Your post made me sad. You obviously really love each other a lot but I think she has many underlying issues that you perhaps haven't covered?

Also, if it were me, I'd change doctors; even having been on melds for that long, the GP should have a plan in place to reduce her meds and wean her off back to a normal non medicated life......unless she has some some of long term MH problem, like schizophrenia for example.

You say you are both totally honest with each other, yet you don't say exactly why she doesn't want to have sex. It does, as you mention, seem to strongly correlate with her going on the meds though.

You say you haven't got children. Have you chatted with her about whether you both want children in the future? Perhaps having a chat about children might make her open up more. I'm not suggesting children can save your marriage but perhaps she hasn't thought about the implications of not having sex again.

You sound like such a great partner to have; extremely thoughtful and caring towards her and your relationship.

Although some people have said its time to leave her, every aspect of your live together is great.....but with no sex. Obviously it's an important part and you have gone down the route of trying to get help. Has she told you her exact reasons for not wanting sex? Is there any time through her monthly cycle when she feels sexy....during ovulation for example? If yes, then I reckon there is hope. Have you asked her about her menstrual cycle? Are they regular......could she be going through very early menopause etc is she on birth control which may effect libido? Lots of things to check out.....not only related to her meds.

I hope you get some positive hope from her. If not, then perhaps you need to spell it out that you cannot stay if the pair of you don't make love anymore. Also, are you 100% sure she hasnt been abused or raped by someone and is too scared to tell you?

To not kiss or have any intimacy for 8 years would leave anyone's self esteem in tatters.

If she wanted to change she would have done all she could in counselling. I imagine it's very hard for her to admit that she doesn't want to be intimate, she wants a relationship that is more friendship than lovers. Which would be fine if you wanted the same, but you don't. I agree that you are simply not compatible in this way. For me I know the relationship would ultimately fail.

There are possible solutions if she would agree to an open marriage. But that would only work if it was just sex you were missing, not sex with her. I know that solution wouldn't be for me, and of course she would have to agree to it too, but it works for some couples.

"Lots of things to check out.....not only related to her meds."

What underpins a healthy, enjoyable sex life is spontaneity and desire - it's not a rational process, it's an emotional expression. This idea of going through some kind of tick list of obstacles and checking them out one by one sounds so unutterably cold and clinical that I cannot see how it would improve matters one iota.

When boy meets girl and girl does not want to have sex with boy, the suggestion... 'lets pick apart the exact reasons you don't want to have sex with me and see if we can overcome them'.... is not a chat up line that is going to get anyone anywhere. Who is going to feel hot and sexy having just been asked about their menstrual cycle?

There has been 18 months of 'normality' and eight years of nothing. Surely ... enough's enough?

Fluffymcnuffy the problem isn't Her not wanting to have sex - it's her frankly callous attitude to her partner and not recognising or dealing with his needs. She made a unilateral decision and is making him like it or lump it. My attitude isn't appalling at all - sexless relationships are fucking miserable and what this woman is doing is emotionally abusive. I hope the OP gets out and finds someone normal and leaves this woman to her asexual life.

You can't change other people.

And being in a relationship where "everything would be perfect IF she just did...'insert a million things'.....is never a truly fulfilling one.

Your need to 'fix' her is fruitless. She's got to do it herself.
Yet it seems she doesn't want to. That's fine, her choice. You don't get to decide. You can only decide if it's ok for you, and it's clearly not (despite your protestations you do need to be honest with yourself)

As BOF says, I too think the SSRIs are a red herring. No sex? That's something completely different to a lowered libido most likely compatibility.

I notice you are in early 30s. What will happen if she wants children?

Cogito I wasn't suggesting he asks her like in an exam .... Merely suggesting that (because he said they are open about everything) that he thinks about other possibilities, such as cycle, contraceptives etc.

The fact he says it was great sex for the first 18 months, then nothing, yet their relationship is brilliant in all other aspects, could suggest an underlying health/mental health issue other than her just not being into him.

Surely after that long, unless she is purely with him for financial security, nobody would remain together just because? From what he says, it looks as though their relationship is a very living one, albeit no sex. I truly believe there is an underlying reason that either she isn't telling him about or that they haven't thought of.

She made a unilateral decision and is making him like it or lump it. My attitude isn't appalling at all - sexless relationships are fucking miserable and what this woman is doing is emotionally abusive. I hope the OP gets out and finds someone normal and leaves this woman to her asexual life.

Erm not wanting to have sex is not emotionally abusive .

I personally believe that women have the ultimate choice whether they want to have sex or not free from expectation or pressure.

The OP has clearly tried his best to broach the issue with his DP, but it's apparent that she's not interested in regaining her interest in sex, which is her choice. She must accept however that the OP is perfectly entiteled to decide he cannot live like this and find someone else.

You referring to asexual people as "not normal" is pretty repulsive some people just aren't into sex you know. Like I said its a compatibility issue.

Not wanting to have sex is not emotionally abusive.

Refusing to engage with something that is a big problem for your partner, making them feel alone in the problem, and not taking steps to come to a compromise - well, I don't know if that's emotionally abusive, but I'm pretty sure that's what the poster was talking about, not the 'no sex' part.

I'm on citalopram too and have very little sex drive when on my meds and find it hard to get aroused and orgasm.

I have to come off them last year and for 3 weeks I was a sex fiend so I do agree that it will be the medication.

I'm intrigued as to how someone doesn't want sex can compromise? What should she do? Agree to shag him once a week even though she doesn't want to? Let him wank over her?

Well Fluffy, possibly. If one partner has come to the decision that they don't want to be celibate, and the other partner doesn't want sex, then it's up to each couple to decide, together, how to proceed. The partner who doesn't want sex may decide they are willing to help their partner feel desirable in other ways - perhaps they'd be ok with not doing PIV sex, but doing other things, and the undersexed partner would be willing to live with that. Perhaps they would agree on an open relationship. Perhaps a shag once a week would seem preferable to losing the relationship. The key thing is that both partners are open about what they can and can't manage, and make the decision together. Or, at least that's what I think.

I couldn't continue this. If there is no affection or intimacy you are simply living with a friend.

It sounds like your the driving force behind any counselling or doc appointments. It doesn't sound like she's taken any responsibility to resolve this at all and that she's actually sabotaged some of your attempts to improve things. Really she has told you she is happy with things as they are , and as hard as it is you should really accept that.

It sounds like you view your relationship through rose tinted glasses. You state you are madly in love with her and your convinced she feels the same way. Someone who is madly in love with you would not treat you as she is doing , nor would they completely ignore your needs for eight years. You said you've spoken to her about your thoughts of leaving , yet she STILL does nothing. Seriously Op , rethink the idea she is madly in love with you.

Why do you feel guilty about your thoughts of leaving ?

I found seroxat a crippler rather than a healer for work and my sex life. I had many other side effects too. Those pills were a living death. I thought if this is me "fixed" I'd rather be "broken" because at least the agony felt Alive. Paradoxically the tablets that were supposed to numb the pain made me fight to feel Anything at all. So I stopped them.

I'm wondering if your wife might consider coming off the meds and dealing - with support - with her anxiety. But it might be too late for you already. I couldn't have stood 8yrs of myself like that on seroxat, never mind expect anyone else to cope.

What would you like to happen now given that those damn pills control and dull her. Have you reached endpoint?

Nobody should be forced to have sex they don't want, and nobody should be guilted (or guilt themselves) into staying in a sexless relationship

If you were my friend in RL, I would understand if you ended the partnership as amicably as you could

Please don't cheat...that would be the worst possible outcome, for both of you

Has she had her hormone levels checked OP?

I write this as a woman who has had periods of time on anti-Ds and know first hand what it's like to have zero libido because of that. It feels miserable and I felt dead from the waist down. I went through hypnotherapy to kick start things, tried scented patches supposed to help, all manner of herbal supplements...you name it, I've tried it. But mine was also hormonal and the various contraceptive pills I was on to combat a hormonal condition I had (no longer have it, had a hysterectomy) meant that that compounded things further. I dreaded my first husband kissing me even because I knew he would (quite naturally) try for more and I felt nothing sexually.
I wanted to but just didn't. Over time I couldn't face trying stuff that didn't work and we split.
Now I am remarried and I have since had my op, no anti-Ds.
Now I have HRT (oestrogen and testosterone pellets) and when my testosterone kicks in it's amazing!! You can get the gel from the GP but I have an implant and I feel like any normal person does which for the first time in forever is amazing! When it wears off I go back to being Mrs-Dead-Beneath-The-Waist but it's because I no longer have any ovaries to make my hormones for me.
When i feel like that it isn't because I don't fancy my DH - I do! But I just don't have that libido that I do when my implants are working.
I wondered if maybe her hormones are out of wack! Might be something to think about?

(ps I am 42 btw so not too ancient. I am getting my implants done tomorrow and cannot wait!!)

OP you do not sound selfish at all, but your wife does.

I appreciate that she has every right to never have sex again, but knowing that it is important to you she should either address the problem full on or let you go. She has no right to expect you to stay when she won't give you any intimacy of any kind, I'm not surprised your self esteem is in tatters.

It's clear that you love your wife very much, but your relationship sounds unequal. So she needs to stay on the meds, fair enough, but what was her reason for not sticking with sexual therapy? Why do you have to beg her to do anything to address this? It sounds to me as if she's perfectly happy with your relationship as it is, and doesn't trouble herself too much that you're deeply unhappy.

This isn't going to change, so decide whether you want to give up on sex forever or give yourself a chance to be happy with someone with whom you're more compatible.