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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

That gut feeling... do I have a stray dog, a careless DH or both?

77 replies

WhatTheEel · 12/01/2015 11:08

DH works every other Saturday from 9-12. He's been doing this for years and is always home by 1pm for brunch. Lately...the past 3-4 months, he's been staying on a Saturday until about 4-5pm (they shut at 12). He is alone apart from his secretary. He has a newish secretary who, by all accounts is sassy, competent, smart, young. DH hardly talks about her but when he does, he paints a colourful, exciting picture. He's described her as a real character, fun, charismatic. Recently they had their work do. They always bring spouses. This is the first time ever I have not gone because all of our kids had stomach flu and I was just exhausted so I stayed home. Normally we go together, have a great time and are home by 11. This year, he rolled in at 1am. He seemed to have the best time ever! I asked him about the chats he had with everyone, how they were all doing, etc. I used to work there for several years so I know the majority of staff not only as DH's spouse but as their former colleague. When I mentioned the newish secretary he said he didn't speak to her all night and that she went off clubbing. Though later he added that the staff love her and his manager in particular thinks so highly of this secretary, she'll go places. I've been around this earth a while and tend not to feel insecure, but suddenly I do. Especially since this Saturday when he was at work again until 5 'doing a massive clear out'. He stays until 5 most Saturdays now even though he shuts at 12.

I was suprised to hear that the newish secretary was with him until about 4pm. He wanted our son to go in and help him clear out the office once he was finished with work at 12. We agreed DS would go up to the office but hadn't agreed on a time and because work is a bit of a journey and DS would be travelling on his own (he is 13). DH would meet him at a certain time and place and they'd walk back to the office. That was the idea. Well, DH turned off his phone and PC at 12:30. He answered none of my calls or emails to arrange things. I then left to take our younger child to a party. DS sat at home, waiting to hear from dad (and playing xBox... I doubt he was too upset). DH rang at 4:30 saying he had been so busy with his clear out, he just switched his phone and PC off and hadn't gotten my emails or messages trying to arrange a time and meeting point. He said his secretary was there keeping a weather eye open to see if DS would arrive. They were expecting him, he had said. But we hadn't arranged a time. And DS doesn't quite know the way to his office on his own. He knows this. However, I didn't question DH. I rang the office number which had a recording saying the office was open but no one picked up.

We rarely call/text each other at the best of times and whenever I do, his phone is always off. On Mondays he finishes at 4pm but is home about 10pm lately. I haven't suspected a thing. He's a busy man trying to keep a small office running. But historically, he's never stayed on so late and doesn't seem to complain about an increase in workload. Another thing, staff doesn't get over time, so I was puzzled as to why the secretary stayed beyond 12 on a Saturday.

Here's the thing. We. Don't. Have. Sex. We just don't. We blame it on the kids. We blame it on ourselves. We have a laugh and get on well in a buddy sort of way. But our intimacy has tanked in the last 18 months.

This could just be paranoia talking. I hope so. But I wonder if I should get a tail on him. God I do sound weird now. But I feel that niggling feeling. WWYD? Thanks for reading.

OP posts:
kaykayred · 12/01/2015 15:27

OP - Have you ever tried pointing out to him that you would be less tired if you didn't have to wait for him to get home so late? Or that you would be less busy with the kids if he actually got involved in family life, rather than living in his own bubble?

It sounds like you two are living separate lives already, and that's really sad.

Drumdrum60 · 12/01/2015 15:40

Sorry to say but him being in his own world sounds like a red flag to extra curricular. You need to find out what he's up to without alerting him to it.
Sounds like he's happy in his own world. You need to discover what that world is.

Drumdrum60 · 12/01/2015 15:45

Could it be the bubble of sex addiction? Just putting it out there as a possibility. Prostitutes in past,living in a bubble, no intimacy and separate lives?
Why is his phone always off ?

rosiepinkcheeks · 12/01/2015 16:12

Hello. You know your DM and you should trust your instincts. I would make arrangements for the DC to go to a friends on Saturday and turn up to meet him. If he is there alone then the two of you can go out for lunch and have a nice day (and if he has been tempted then knowing you can just turn up may make him think twice). If he is with the Secretary then you can see how they react when you turn up and you will know if they are actually working or just making eyes at each other. If he is nowhere to be seen and is not home when you get back then ....well you need to speak to him. Good luck.

WhatTheEel · 12/01/2015 20:09

Thank you all for such sound advice... and above all for helping me feel as if there is some legitimate sense that something might be amiss. I hope to heavens that this is just a period where we're not on the same wavelength and his long days and eves at work are just a reflection of perhaps not wanting to rush home to me. That in itself is something to work with, something sad and difficult. I just hope there isn't sex happening elsewhere. That just adds an immeasurable amount of pain to a place that isn't so great right now. I thank you from the heart and respect all of your insight.

OP posts:
Deserttrek · 12/01/2015 20:13

I know someone whose DH took up morning jogging. She found a lot of coins in his jogging bottoms (this was just before mobile phones took off) and had suspicions. So one morning at 6am when he left the house she bundled DC into the car and drove to the nearest phone box and guess what.....

I think a bit of surveillance may be appropriate here, it may prove something and avoid the uncertainty and stress.

Drumdrum60 · 12/01/2015 20:31

Hope you find the answer. Come back when you know.Flowers

Cabrinha · 12/01/2015 20:45

Will you stop being so wet and "just hoping", woman, and get off your arse to find out what he's doing?

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but honestly - you've just slipped in on the second page that this arsehole cheated on his wife with prostitutes.
Let's not be coy about "paying for intimacy". He. Fucked. Prostitutes.

You don't have sex anymore. WHY do you think this leopard would change his spots and not just cheat, either with the secretary or with a prostitute.

You say he's not present - seems to me you're the one in la la land.

You haven't gone to his office on a Monday night yet, because you know he's cheating on you.

Flowers I feel for you, I do - I know I'm being harsh.

But I was married to a prostitute cheater. And 6 weeks into his next relationship he was at it again. It takes a certain type of person to buy sex and cheat on their wife. You KNOW he is that sort of person.

simontowers2 · 13/01/2015 07:55

You describe him as nice OP but all his actions make him sound like a bit of a twat tbh.

Joysmum · 13/01/2015 08:29

He has form for getting it elsewhere when his marriage is failing, you know that.

You also know your marriage isn't as good as you'd like with no intimacy, no interest from him in intimacy, and his screwed up work life balance.

Personally I'd be confronting that at the same time as looking for evidence.

Drumdrum60 · 13/01/2015 18:09

Any news? Did he come home late? Have you found out anything ? Flowers

Hobbitwife001 · 13/01/2015 18:10

Sorry, I think it is an emotional affair at best, a physical one very possibly, women's intuition is a very powerful thing, you have known this man for many years and you know his behaviours, and everything is pointing to him playing away tbh, you could voice your concerns over this woman, whether you would get the truth from him is unlikely though.
I would turn up unannounced at the office and gauge his/her reaction.
Sometimes you just know though don't you? I certainly did when it happened to me. X

SnakesandKnives · 13/01/2015 18:55

One thing which doesnt seem to have been clarified is the son helping out visit thing.

I know he turned his phone off etc; but surely there was a good chance, even without a fully agreed time, that son WOULD turn up at some point that day? (lets face it, streetview would make it fairly easy to work out how to get to the office)

Wouldnt that be a big risk if secretarying/hookering and not actually at the office?

Coyoacan · 14/01/2015 04:27

I don't know, OP, but even if he isn't cheating, it sounds like you need to re-examine your marriage, go for counselling or something, because at the moment it sounds like you might as well be living apart.

WhatTheEel · 14/01/2015 18:34

Thank you, really from the heart, I thank all of you for your comments and input. We've had words... not a huge row but we've reached that impasse. The late Monday this week (back at 8pm when supposed to be finished by 2pm) combined with my putting these thoughts down made me finally ask him 'What's going on?' I know it sounds perhaps lazy but I hadn't given it much thought until recently. Well I gave it thought, but sort of out it aside. And I think the whole thing with our son going up to help out at the office suddenly made me realise, he's just not around... he's not contactable and he's not home much. It's sort of gone on and escalated at a steady pace. Anyway, our conversations have been difficult and not very forthcoming. Of course he hasn't admitted to anything but when I asked him those difficult questions he calmly said "No." He didn't protest too much, didn't get upset but at the same time, didn't go overboard saying, "You nutter, do you think I'd do that?" But hey, 'no' is 'no'. I should just assume he's being honest. But what he did say was that he'd been looking for marriage counsellors the past few days. This really surprised me. I am glad he's on that page- we need support. But I didn't think that he even had such concerns or thoughts. He was very closed during the whole conversation. He didn't really clarify exactly what he felt we needed a counsellor for. I think I was the clearer of the two of us as to what my concerns are. I don't know what to think. He turned away and went to sleep. I don't know... nothing terrible was said and yet for the very first time, his feelings for me have gone really, really stale. There was nothing reassuring about our talk and no open honesty... just unhappiness. He seems really unhappy. I feel like there's something I don't know.

OP posts:
HootyMcTooty · 14/01/2015 18:46

Sorry but I'd say I'm even more sure that something is going on.

He might be suggesting marriage counsellors so that he can be seen to make that final last effort before fucking off, so he doesn't look like the bad guy. My main concern about him looking for a marriage counsellor is that he hasn't even discussed this with you, let alone discussed his unhappiness or sought to resolve anything. This looks a lot like rewriting history to me. Of course he could just be talking shit.

Are you going to drop into the office on Saturday afternoon?

magoria · 14/01/2015 18:50

He says has been looking for marriage counsellors. This is a brilliant line. It makes you feel happy and better that he is thinking of your marriage and wants to fix it. So you back off and shut up a little thinking a fix may be in the pipeline. He gets to stop having the conversation, roll over and go to sleep.

He couldn't clarify why and what for.

The actions which speak massively louder than what he says he might have done.

He rolled over, turned away from you and went to sleep.

Basically he is not interested in you. He may be screwing the secretary. He may just want her but she isn't interested (I don't believe that with the overtime and turned off phones). Or he is getting or paying for it somewhere else.

He isn't even interesting in an honest talk.

Don't deal with what you don't know. Deal with what you do. Your marriage is a dead duck. It needs burying before it really starts rotting.

Get some practical help and support and work on the assumption that your marriage is ending. If it survives that is a bonus.

JohnFarleysRuskin · 14/01/2015 19:32

Agree with pps. Something is going on. :(

carlywurly · 14/01/2015 20:27

I'm really sorry but it sounds like he has totally disengaged from your marriage. This is exactly how my xh behaved while having an affair with a colleague. Hmm

I'd be looking to seek some advice about where you stand and start to get your finances in order (discreetly.)

Counselling for you may be a good plan too. You will need some support however this pans out.

Drumdrum60 · 14/01/2015 23:12

He just said what he thought you wanted to hear and let himself off the hook. You need to tell him to go or if you want to you can find out the truth but that will reveal itself anyway.
You need to empower yourself.

Cabrinha · 15/01/2015 01:08

Oh love, don't be such a total sap.
What are the odds that he was looking into marriage counselling, just when you call him on his disappearing act?
Odds: long.
Bet he couldn't tell you WHAT he's looked at. Because he hasn't.

WHY do you have to assume he's honest?
Given that he's a prostitute user who has cheated on his previous wife, I'd say the assumption you start with is that he's a liar.

I'm sorry you're in this position, but don't be a fool. Are you going to actually insist he follows through with this marriage counselling that he (hasn't) researched?

CaramelPie · 15/01/2015 01:49

Maybe he has something to tell you and wants to do it with a councillor to act as a mediator?

FatChanceCafe · 15/01/2015 07:15

You should have found a way to see if he was where he said he was.See if this behaviour coming home late continues or comes back again at some point.You know something not right and talking about it aint going to solve it with him.I've had someone lie to my face when asked a question I already knew the answer too.This is what people do..

kittensinmydinner · 15/01/2015 09:43

OP , you are definitely giving out a really passive vibe about this situation, you sound very 'meh' about your whole set up, or is that just your way of coping. ? I completely understand how you can slip in to this way of life, I had exactly the same going on in my first marriage, only I KNEW he was having sex with others, but that suited me as I didn't want sex with him. He had become like a brother/best mate... It can happen after children, how you view your partner, (from both parents perspective). Anyway, I am moving off the point. The question is, is he using prostitutes, having an affair or got a serious case of love sick puppy syndrome? I think it's much more likely to be the affair/love sick than prostitutes as the amount of time he is away. 4/5 hrs on a Saturday, 4/5 hrs during the week , most nights, when meant to be home from work? Way way to long for a prostitute, unless he has had a sudden lottery win he hasn't told you about. Have you noticed massive holes in your bank account/savings ? If not I would count that out as hookers don't tent to give freebies. As for the nonsense about 'done it once, do it again' that is just a ridiculous platitude and takes no account of circumstances at the time. My DH was an alcoholic womaniser when me met. Been married 21 yrs, not a single night apart and hasn't had a drink since our reception...so don't listen to silly opinions, just get yourself some hard evidence.

dominogocatgo · 15/01/2015 09:55

What kind of phone does he have, and how much time can you spend alone with it ? I believe there is a function within location services on certain phones that will allow you to see where it has been. Not too sure of the details but it has been discussed on a few threads on MN.