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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Another total family nightmare...(sorry v long)

32 replies

sirin · 15/10/2006 01:58

Sorry this is so very long but all objective advice/opinions appreciated.

I have a very small family indeed (husband, one son, mother, one sister and 3 neices and nephews). We all live in the same small town and all see each other almost daily.

My sister(aged 44) is a single parent with 3 children (21, 8 and 6) from two marriages. She has had a very chequered history with men but is generally a good, responsible parent at heart, although this story suggests otherwise... Since her last marriage ended in 2002 she has always maintained that she does not intend to be alone for ever, wanting to find a soul mate for herself as well as someone to share in family life with her and the children. Her youngest two children see their father quite regularly although he is not a particularly good parent and still has a very bad relationship with my sister.

Since 2002 she has had several boyfriends (internet, met incidentially on nights out etc) who have lasted for varying periods of time, not all of whom she has introduced to her children. About 4 of them have been introduced to her children and, bless them, they have always accepted them with childlike innocence readily and without any problems. The relationships have petered out for various reasons; sometimes down to my sister and sometimes down to the man. In every case the children have been very fond of the men and have lost them from their lives.

In mid June this year my sister met a new man, Tim. He lives in a town some 150 miles away from us. Things very quickly became very serious between them. He is a childless divorcee and 3 years younger than my sister. He apparently has a good, well paid job and owns his own home outright. She met his parents after knowing him for only 3 days and they were apparently extremely welcoming and kind to both her two youngest children. Within a fortnight they had invited the children to stay for a week during the summer hols and they apparently had a fantastic time with them and were very kind to them. The children have now grown very fond of both them (already call them Nana and Grandpa) and Tim.

A few weeks ago now (around 2 and a half months after my sister and Tim met)it came out through the children that they were going to be moving away to live with Tim. To cut a long story very short, we've since discovered that Tim is planning to buy a new 5 bedroomed house to accommodate them all and is willing to put my sister's name on the deeds to offer her security. She lives in rented council accommodation (which she incidentially feels is too small for her family) so has nothing to bring to the relationship and will clearly have to lose her home when she moves away. She is taking the children away from their environment, their home, family, school, friends, father and everything they've ever known. She has only ever met up with Tim at weekends and we are all very concerned that she really doesn't know him very well at all, not him her. They seem very "loved-up" (understandably at this stage) and (also understandably) she says they "don't envisage the relationship going wrong".

Both my mother and I have told my sister that we can't support her in her decision to take teh children and leave when she hasn't really tested the relationship with Tim and has had such a chequered past with men. We feel that she should act more responsibly where her childrens' interests and feelings are concerned. My mother has said to her that if she leaves she will only be prepared to see the children in the future and not my sister. I feel extremely frustrated, upset, angry and powerless to do anything to stop my sister despite having talked to her at length and expressed all my concerns which she simply dismisses as "being negative".

She argues that the deal with the house is far too good to miss and that Tim is offering security, has many qualities, is kind to the children, can offer the children another set of grandparents and generally "ticks all the boxes" on her wish list. She argues that the area he lives in has more to offer the children (debatable in my view)and that she is acting in the best intersts of the children who will have a far better life if they all go to live with Tim. She also argues that children are extremely adapatable to change and will settle well and make new friends quickly. She says they're looking forward to it but we wonder if they're really aware of the full implications of the move.

Are we wrong to challenge her? Do you think she is right to make this hasty move or do you agree with us that she should slow down and tread more cautiously than she is? She is telling us we are just being ridiculous and negative.

Help....!

OP posts:
alexsCURSEDMUMMY · 15/10/2006 02:06

i think you should let her do her own thing and be supportive and be there for her to fall back on if things do go wrong.cutting her out of your life isn't going to do anyone any good.
sure she may be making a mistake , but she is an adult and has to make her own mistakes. on the other hand , she may not be making a mistake and may have a happy life with this man.
i think you should say to her " i don't think this is the right thing to do but i will support you in your decision"

HauntedsandCastle · 15/10/2006 02:16

"My mother has said to her that if she leaves she will only be prepared to see the children in the future and not my sister"

However you & your family feel about the move, the above is very very harsh and very likely to cause alot of heartbreak. I can't believe that any loving mother would say this to a child (regardless of age)

Your sister is old enough to make her own choices, and I am afrfriad all you can do is be there if (and when, as you seem to think) it all goes wrong. Ut cutting her off is just going to make it all the more harder. How will you explain this to her children when they are older? Please support her, if she wants to do, she is old enough to do it, with or without your families blessing!

HumphreyComfreyCushion · 15/10/2006 02:53

I would be concerned, from your sister's point of view, about 'putting all my eggs in one basket'.

This is a very new relationship, and if it fails, she will not have a home for herself and her children.

I would also be concerned about moving my children in with a man I had only known for a few months, and whom I had only seen at weekends.

They are things for her to consider though, as a responsible parent.

I can see why you are worried as a sister and an aunty, but I think you run the risk of alienating your sister by raising your objections repeatedly.

You are entitled to your opinion of course, but if she doesn't take your advice, try and support her - and reassure her that you will be there for her if she needs you.

saadia · 15/10/2006 05:29

I agree with you, it's all happening too fast, esp where kids are involved. But I can't see what you can really do about it.

Do you have a close relationship with the children? I think one of the things you can do is keep in regular and close contact with them so that if they become unhappy or worried they can confide in you.

sirin · 15/10/2006 10:12

Hi Sadia, yes we do have an extremely close relationship with the children. My son has been raised with them more as siblings, they go to the same school, we see them daily. My son and nephew are best friends. Of course we will try to keep in touch, but with the best will in the world it will not be the same and we feel we are losing them in the most rushed and ill-considered of circumstances.

There are an awful lot of hurt feelings, my mother in particular feels like my sister "has given away her grandchildren to complete strangers" and it is understandable that she feels that she is being replaced in their affections by them. They are all total stranges to us.

We feel most strongly that my sister has an ulterior motive too. The large house is too much to resist and she has told us that if it goes wrong and is sold, Tim has assured her she will be entitled to half so would still theoretically be able to buy another house, albeit not as large. We are not sure if this is strictly true but it seems she wants to believe this at this stage and doesn't want any opposition.

She has made so many mistakes with men in the past. We feel that, although this one could work out, the likeliehood is it will go the sme way as all the others. Why does she need to take this rash step now? Why can't she take her time? One would have thought experience would tell her that.

I've warned her that Tim might be analagous to a georougsly wrapped present; she shouldn't concentrate on the wrapping but on the present itself.

She tells me I'm not the childrens' parent and have no right to try and control her actions as their mother. I'm finding it so hard to support her in all of this. Perhaps I should but I just can't.

I can't even look at her at the moment although I'm trying my hardest to remain civil and normal outwardly for the childrens' sakes. It might seem melodramatic and pessimistic but I can see nothing but fractured relationships all around in the future.

OP posts:
Xales · 15/10/2006 10:50

I think you are wrong.

I know you are only worried about your sister and her family but you have to let her live her life. I also think your mother was very wrong and very hurtful to say she doesn't want to see your sister again.

Would you really want to stay around people even if they are family who used emotional blackmail to stop you doing something?

You all seem determined that your sister's relationship will fail rather than trying to support her. Everything you are saying about her is negative on here apart from she is a good mum which you then retract my saying she is not putting them first.

Many many people know someone for a few weeks get married and do all right

I think you have expressed very clearly to your sister how YOU all feel about this, but now is the time to back off and just be there for her if she need you.

vitomum · 15/10/2006 10:58

agree with all the others. You have had your say now you need to let your sister do what she has chosen to do. She is an adult, she is entitled to make her own choices.

Megglevache · 15/10/2006 11:04

Message withdrawn

lulumama · 15/10/2006 11:14

if he ticks all the boxes on her wish list then lucky lucky her! at 44, she can't wait for ever to find someone...if he ticks the boxes, and she obvioously does for him..then don't rain on her parade by predicting it will end badly.

she will see that as a direct attack on her....150 miles away is no the ends of the earth - emotional blackmail is absolutely wrong- she should not have to risk not seeing her family again because she is in love with someone who clearly loves her and wants to give her and her family a good life.

with the divorce rate being what it is.... she's not unusual in having failed relationships behind her..at 44, she has found someone who she feels is right...why not give her your support...

he must think the world of her and if she was 20 years younger, would you even be asking these questions??

Judy1234 · 15/10/2006 11:37

I can't believe your mother said that. No wonder the sister wants to get away.
Also if she is on the deeds as owning 50% then that is indeed true - if they split up she gets 50% even though she contributed not one penny.
It does seem fast. I'm her age. I work full time. I don't see how it is so easy to find all these men so often. She obviously manages it. I haven't introduced my children to anyone in 3 years because I don't think that should be done until you're really sure about someone. But some people find the love of their life fast and stay together for a long time.

If this man has never lived with children then has he any idea what that means? Can he cope with it?

hunkermunster · 15/10/2006 11:40

Stop being so unpleasant to her, you and your mother.

edam · 15/10/2006 11:45

I don't think there's much you can do, beyond explaining your concerns, which you have. She's a grown woman and can make her own decisions, however much you disagree with them. And I think your mother is cutting off her nose to spite her face. Saying she'll only see the children means she is risking not seeing them at all. She knows you disagree, but it's up to you to keep things civil so you stand a chance of seeing the children. It would be shame if you lost your relationship with them over this - or your sister felt she couldn't come to you if it all goes pear-shaped.

TwigTwoolett · 15/10/2006 11:53

My parents married within 3 months of meeting each other ... they have now been married for 49 years

I think your job is to be supportive and tell her you are worried about her decision but that you will support her in whatever she decides to do and NOT to give ultimatums

sounds like a good deal to me

dizietsma · 15/10/2006 12:12
  1. You're being a busybody. What right have you and your mother to try and dictate who your sister lives with, however ill thought out you believe her plan to be?

  2. I met my DH on the internet in a very similar situation and we have been together for 5 years and have a wonderful 15 month old DD, I honestly know of no couples who are as much in love as we are.

  3. Why don't you try being happy for her and support her relationship if you're so worried about it?

beckybraAAARGHstraps · 15/10/2006 12:16

My grandparents met and married within three weeks. My grandmother was at the time 'courting' someone else (he was away at the time). They were very happily married for over 50 years. But, like you, my great-grandma was rahter concerned at the start. You are right to raise your concerns, kindly and in a sisterly way. ANd if it does all go pear-shaped I'm sure you'll be there to help pick up the pieces. But it might work out.

ScummyMummy · 15/10/2006 12:26

I can see why you're concerned and that you will miss her and the children desperately. But I agree with the others who've said it's her life, they're her children, this is a decision for her to make. Your job and your mum's job is to say we love you guys and we are happy for you and will be there for you through thick and thin.

Chandra · 15/10/2006 12:39

I cringe at your comments and those of your mother. She is an adult, and although I understand your concerns, you have no right to tell her what to do. As for your mother.... that sort of blackmail have caused my MIL not to see her son and grandchild very often.

You should not forget that those children are first of all, her children and whatever claim you have as a relative is minor compared to her rights as a mother.

She may be taking a wrong decission, or a good one, you have said what you thought I think is time to allow her to take her own decisions.

(Sorry if I sound harsh, but this so reminiscent of my inlaws who have managed to be such a heavy burden in an otherwise almost perfect relationship)

sirin · 16/10/2006 13:28

I do appreciate all your comments and take your points on board.

I know my mother's reaction is harsh to say the least and I have no intention whatsoever of taking a similar standpoint. I fully appreciate that my sister is an adult who can and will make her own decisions affecting her children and herself.

I am simply trying to urge caution, asking what the rush is and trying to get her to maybe slow down a bit and see that she really should be taking her time to get to know Tim properly. He also needs to take time to do the same with her and her children. He has never lived with children before and doesn't have children amongst his close family so should give himself a chance to see if it's what he really wants too. Not only is he going to be faced with a 6 and 8 year who are not always very easy children to deal with but an uncommunicative, lazy selfish 20 year old too so this will be no easy ride for him. Under the present arrangements he only sees a snapshot at weekends.

I know that many, many people have whirwind romances and marry very quickly and stay together for life etc. If my sister didn't have any children (or even if she only had her oldest adult child to consider) I can honestly say that I would not be turning a hair at what she is planning to do.

I firmly believe though, that where young dependent children are concerned, responsible parents owe it to them to make informed decisions about things that will directly affect their lives and impact upon their emotional wellbeing and happiness.

That is my only concern and I wish my sister would appreciate it for what it is rather than just viewing it as me being negative and not supportive of her decision.

OP posts:
joelallie · 16/10/2006 13:40

sirin - I can see that you are worried and I don't think it's unreasonable to express your concerns to your sister as you have done.
I do have a problem with children being dragged along in the wake of parents love lives. Being in love with someone isn't neccessarily the most stable condition to be in - children need stability. Losing day-to-day contact with their grandparents,auntie and cousins, and having to change schools is a lot to ask, on top of getting used to a new daddy. DS#1's best friend was taken out of school at a weeks notice to go to another town with his mum and her new fiance - all was going to be hunkydory, brand new start etc etc - lasted a few months and then she caught him shagging the lodger. Lad was dragged out of yet another school and off to the other side of the country to live with granny. Very sad and I did feel quite upset at the time for my DS and his friend. I also think that your sisters new man may be in for a rude awakening when he actually has to live with children full-time.

However I'm afraid that I agree with the others that there is no more than you can or should do now. You need to support her and the children and hope that it all turns out OK. Maybe it will and it will turn out to be the best decision she ever made.

dizietsma · 16/10/2006 13:52

"Not only is he going to be faced with a 6 and 8 year who are not always very easy children to deal with but an uncommunicative, lazy selfish 20 year old"

What a nasty way to characterise your nieces and nephew. You need to butt out and reconsider your judgemental attitudes. Glad you aren't my sister!

alligator · 16/10/2006 14:46

Sounds like you are very concerned about your sister Sirin. But tbh there si very little you can do about except be there should anything happen. I think you sound like a very loving and concerned sister but your sister is an adult and the kids are her responsibility. Hope it all works out for the best.

zubb · 16/10/2006 14:51

My step dad moved in with us after knowing my Mum a couple of months, and a few months after that we moved a couple of hours away. All worked out fine - just trust your sister and be happy for her.

sirin · 16/10/2006 16:52

"What a nasty way to characterise your nieces and nephew. You need to butt out and reconsider your judgemental attitudes. Glad you aren't my sister!"

No dizietsma, not nasty, just a realistic characterisation of the truth. You do not know me, or my family. I have seen both my neice and nephews on an almost daily basis since all of them were born. We are an extremely close family and as I've said, mine and my sister's children have been raised more like siblings than cousisns. I know my sister would not take offence to these comments and I would also describe my own son as not the easiest of children to deal with on occasion, as I'm sure she would too.

For what it's worth I actually find your comment unhelpful, insulting, rude and adding nothing worthwhile to the debate.

OP posts:
KTeepee · 16/10/2006 17:09

I appreciate your concerns for your sister....in this day and age relationships often do not work out and where step-children are concerned, there are probably more issues to deal with and more people to get hurt.....

BUT as others have said, it would appear that nothing you or your mother can say or do will make your sister change her mind. I think your only option is to acept your sister's decision and do your best to maintain contact after she moves (and be there for her if the worst happens...)

My brother married someone he had only known for a few months. My parents did not meet her until the wedding and most of my family have never met her (they live in New Zealand). I was worried that they were rushing into things - not so much for him (felt he could look after himself) but because she had a teenage daughter and was worried how she would be affected if things didn't work out. They have now been married for 4 years and have a 2 yr old son. I'm sure they have had their ups and downs but so far it has worked out.

Hope it works out for your sister too.

Philomena · 16/10/2006 19:14

It's so easy to decide that you know what is best for others. I can't help but feel that your opinion is coloured by what you stand to lose. You mention that you are an extremely close family and see each other every day. If Tim were to buy a 5 bedroom house in your home town, would you have such a problem?

I moved 150 miles to move in with my DH. A few people told me that I couldn't possibly know him well enough because of the geographical distance between us for the majority of our relationship. I knew very early on in our relationship that he was "the one." It takes some commitment to maintain a long distance relationship.

At 44 she is big enough and old enough to know what she wants from life. What she needs is a supportive family who are happy that she has found love and security. If she leaves without the support of her family, you may find that your close family isn't quite so close anymore.

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