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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

First time poster (male) looking for any advice...!

80 replies

RememberTheAlamo · 28/12/2014 04:27

This is my first post here and I'm not sure men even post on Mumsnet, but I figured I need some advice from a female perspective.

My long-term partner suddenly left me about a year ago which was a very upsetting and shocking experience for me. All this happened while I was working abroad on a secondment for work, and when I was later posted back to my home office my best friend at work took me out for leaving drinks with two women who were both moving on (one moving abroad, the other leaving the industry). I had met both women before but didn’t really know either of them. As these things go, we all ended up going home together. I spent the night with one of the ladies, and he with the other.

Here’s where it gets complicated. My friend was a line manager for both of these women (although they were leaving, so I’m not sure how big a deal this is) and is also married (while the woman he slept with has a boyfriend). He has never cheated on his wife before or since. It was a moment of madness for him. I’ve known him for well over a decade and this was wildly out of character. In some respects it was probably a mid-life crisis of some kind. The lady he slept with has also never cheated on her boyfriend before.

Since all this happened he and the woman he slept with have not been in touch. It’s amicable between them, and they’ve both understood it was a big mistake. Similarly, I’m not in touch with the lady I spent the night with. We weren’t romantically compatible, she’s abroad, and has a boyfriend now. Things are completely fine there.

So where’s all the mess? Well, the other woman and I have grown very close since this whole episode.

At first it started out as just a bit of fun, she lived nearby and so we’d sometimes meet for a drink and joke about “that” night. Things were frivolous. Since then we’ve discovered we’re very similar in terms of personality. We’re carbon copies of each other in terms of outlook, life philosophy, ambition, and humour. We’ve spent a lot of time together (including at my house) and text each other constantly, often late into the night.

We make each other laugh, we give each other advice, and we encourage each other. We talk about what’s on our mind and whatever is getting us down. We’ve both had a series of stressful events recently and have chatted to each other about these things. So it’s safe to say we’ve grown close.

Behind it all, if I were to walk into a laboratory and create my ideal woman, she wouldn’t be far off. She has a beautiful mind with a piercing intellect. She’s clever and driven, self-assured and confident, and she can engage me mentally when we’re together. She also knows her own mind and values the same things as me: experiences. I find all this incredibly attractive and wish I’d gotten to know her sooner. In no time at all she has rapidly become very important to me. She’s been away for the holidays, but I’m already looking forward to seeing her when she gets back. She’s told me she’s also excited to see me.

Nothing romantic has happened between us, although I think she knows I’d escalate things if the opportunity presented itself. She's said her relationship with her boyfriend is effectively over and she’s waiting for the right time to end it. That’s a formality and I don’t regard it as a big deal.

I recently asked her to come away with me for a weekend but she says it’s 'weird' because of what happened with my friend at work. Even though they have no ongoing connection and they’ve both moved on from what happened that night, I think my friend would be upset to learn about just how close we’ve become. He’s a very good friend of mine. I’d never sacrifice our friendship and I’ve never hidden anything from him before. While he doesn’t have any real grounds to be upset, I can understand why he might be.

Because of this, none of our friends know we're close, or even that we're friends (because we're worried word would get back). So everything about us is currently hidden and secretive. I know this hurts her.

So what should I do? Pursue this woman and convince her to come away with me for a short break (it needn't be extravagant)? Keep things as they are (which means being hidden but remaining close)? Or break things off with her entirely (which I wouldn't like to do)?

OP posts:
Dowser · 28/12/2014 11:20

Oh and you are more worried about wat your married friend would think when you rock up for your portion than the hapless cuckolded boyfriend.

I think you need to leave the dating arena till you've grown up sonny !

YouAreMyRain · 28/12/2014 11:35

Im sorry but this woman has no intention of leaving her boyfriend and getting together with you.

She is using you to boost her ego.

Do not contact her until she becomes single (which will probably never happen btw) even then how will you trust her? I know people who have been married ten years who still don't trust each other because they both know that they cheated on previous partners, so they know they are both capable of cheating on each other. You would have serious trust issues if you ever got into a relationship with her.

She sounds very manipulative and she has probably tweaked her interests and outlook to magically match yours because this is just about flattery and escapism for her. Do not waste any more of your life or energy on her.

The fact that she slept with your friend is irrelevant. I know of at least two long term couples where one partner was initially going out with their current OHs sibling (one had children with them!)
It caused a stir for both of them when they got together, as you can imagine, but they were in love, took the risk and it was worth it. She is making excuses to not get involved with you because she is really enjoying watching you fawning and drooling over her. She sounds horrible actually.

JaceyBee · 28/12/2014 11:46

Don't you think asking someone you're not in a relationship with and have never even slept with to go away with you is rushing things a bit? Seems too full on to me, I'd think it was weird too.

I have been in a similar situation and my advice would unequivocally be to not get any more involved with her until she has left her boyfriend and is single. Any other way, madness lies sorry!

Deserttrek · 28/12/2014 11:49

UpTheAnty
The OP's long term partner left WHILE OP was abroad. THEN when he came back to the UK he had that night with the other woman. And she was THEN single (implied), moved abroad, NOW has a boyfriend. I don't get that OP cheated.

But I do get that the subject matter lady in question finds OP convenient and an escape and probably has a cosy life that she may not want to upset.

UptheAnty · 28/12/2014 11:55

Op isin a relationship with a woman who has a boyfriend -

She is not available and he is justifying his bad behaviour.

Deserttrek · 28/12/2014 11:59

Better explained this time round.

Deserttrek · 28/12/2014 12:01

My theory (and everything I ever say or think could be wrong).
Is that men (generally) make themselves available and women make choices.

Lweji · 28/12/2014 12:03

Desert, his friend slept with this woman, who then had a boyfriend. The woman the OP slept with at the time is the one who moved away and he is not interested in her.

This woman he is pinning for slept with his friend, had a boyfriend then and is still with said boyfriend.

Deserttrek · 28/12/2014 12:05

Lweji, I don't disagree. That's what I said.

AskBasil4StuffingRecipe · 28/12/2014 12:06

You sound like you need a bit of counselling to move on from the break up of your last relationship.

Having an emotional affair with someone who is in a relationship with someone else, is not a good way to move on.

Deserttrek · 28/12/2014 12:10

Unless 'the desired woman' makes a conscious choice to finish with current boyfriend, then nothing is going to happen in this 'relationship'.
And I would be very worried about the circumstances surrounding that choice, were it to happen.
I think the counselling sounds a good idea.

A wedge of personal time, a year or two, to get straight emotionally is a good investment.

MrSheen · 28/12/2014 12:15

There are so many things wrong with this I don't know where to start.

The lady he slept with has also never cheated on her boyfriend before

Not massively relevant because you have no idea if it's true, you know she cheated that one night (with her 1st choice, even though you were there) and she is currently sneaking around with you.

At first it started out as just a bit of fun, she lived nearby and so we’d sometimes meet for a drink and joke about “that” night. Things were frivolous. Since then we’ve discovered we’re very similar in terms of personality. We’re carbon copies of each other in terms of outlook, life philosophy, ambition, and humour. We’ve spent a lot of time together (including at my house) and text each other constantly, often late into the night

We make each other laugh, we give each other advice, and we encourage each other. We talk about what’s on our mind and whatever is getting us down. We’ve both had a series of stressful events recently and have chatted to each other about these things. So it’s safe to say we’ve grown close.

This is an emotional affair. You are having an affair. So is she, so 'never cheated on her bf before has become 'is cheating on her bf again'

Behind it all, if I were to walk into a laboratory and create my ideal woman, she wouldn’t be far off. She has a beautiful mind with a piercing intellect. She’s clever and driven, self-assured and confident, and she can engage me mentally when we’re together. She also knows her own mind and values the same things as me: experiences. I find all this incredibly attractive and wish I’d gotten to know her sooner

People are much more interesting when they aren't asking if you've put the bins out or if you've bought worm medicine for the cat. I'm positively sparkling if I drop over to a pals house with a bottle of wine. Less so when I'm attempting to follow the plot of Homeland in my pyjamas and do an online shop.

Nothing romantic has happened between us, although I think she knows I’d escalate things if the opportunity presented itself

The opportunity has presented itself. She has been to your house alone, several times. If she wanted to shag you, she would have.

She's said her relationship with her boyfriend is effectively over and she’s waiting for the right time to end it. That’s a formality and I don’t regard it as a big deal

I recently asked her to come away with me for a weekend but she says it’s 'weird' because of what happened with my friend at work

Would also be weird going away for a weekend with a man you are in a secret relationship with and having to explain that to the bf.

Because of this, none of our friends know we're close, or even that we're friends (because we're worried word would get back). So everything about us is currently hidden and secretive

So because of some random she shagged a year ago, not because of her long term bf? Are you sure?

I know this hurts her

Not that much though, or she'd tell people.

So what should I do?

Run fast and run far.

Turns out I did know where to start after all.

Annarose2014 · 28/12/2014 12:31

RUN FOR THE HILLS!

This chick is a genius. She has men falling at her feet left right and centre. You witnessed her cheating on her boyfriend, and instead of being a bit "eeewwwww..." about her, she's actually turned it around so that you're plainly gagging for her.

I'll do bet she's sparkling company - when you want someone to fancy you, thats what you do. Twinkly eyes over the rim of a glass, the too-intimate giggle, avidly agreeing with the guys opinions/tastes. He thinks "OMG she's my carbon copy!" and she gets all the time in the world to enjoy deep and meaningful chats with a guy who thinks she's the bees knees.

Flattery is a heady drug, and you're both off your tits on it.

But underneath it all she's cheated on her boyfriend at least once, and is weighing up doing it again. She doesn't need to leave him or their cosy life. He would have seen her other side - the narky side - and hasn't got rose tinted glasses on. Thats where you come in, ya big eejit.

Annarose2014 · 28/12/2014 12:36

Oh and by the way, this is truer than you realise:

She also knows her own mind and values the same things as me: experiences.

The "experiences" she gets off on is the experience she's getting from you now, and she got from your friend. Its a rush, an adventure. She's exploring the brochure. And sooner or later, she's going to return home, nicely satisfied.

Deserttrek · 28/12/2014 12:37

Love it....AnnaRose.
Xmas Grin

Perhaps OP, Desirable Woman and Boyfriend get together and have a grown up chat about it all. It would be interesting to see Boyfriend's take on the relationship and if he agrees it is 'effectively over'. Not that I think Desirable Woman would agree to said chat...........

springydaffs · 28/12/2014 12:45

She's not looking like a safe bet is she? While in a relationship she shagged 1. someone else who 2. was married.

Now she's having a full-on emotional affair with you.

You say it's out of character but it looks a bit too in character to me. Your heart is broken - it's takes longer than a year to get over that kind of break up - and you need to go easy with yourself, you will be vulnerable.

I really would back right off. Her 'perfectness' is too suspicious tbh - it's easy for her to do that when she's playing a part.

The bottom line is she's a cheat. She has form. How relaxed would you be if you ended up in a relationship, knowing what she did to her former boyf? You seem to view him as a cardboard cutout, a fly in the ointment, but they're in a relationship. Relationships don't become established accidentally.

springydaffs · 28/12/2014 13:19

So are you a cheat btw, just for the record. You know she's in a relationship. How would you like it if someone did the same to you? You wouldn't like it is my guess. Nobody does. He's a real, live human being. You turned a blind eye when she shagged your friend, now you're busy pursuing her, the boyf can just vanish for all you care. What if that was you? It could be is the important point.

AnyFucker · 28/12/2014 14:18

OP, you come across as a tad naive Smile

Ormally · 28/12/2014 14:44

How much of a dealbreaker would her (lack of) fidelity or trustworthiness be? You could of course go for it, take it more slowly and attempt to form a relationship. You could be honest with her about the way you feel about her and see how she reacts - on the understanding that turning you down is one option on the spectrum (as it has been since you were 13). Why should your friend be bothered about this? Is he still holding a torch for her too? Are you more bothered about wounding him?

But don't expect her to think you are the only one if this does develop ...as the evidence stands, you're not. By not seeing her, not fuelling your own emotional flame, and moving on (not even to new people necessarily, new horizons work quite well too), you'll put these circumstances into 'crush' territory rather than a rose tinted one and take them less seriously.

DeePancrisPandevenistaken · 28/12/2014 14:59

C'mon OP, what do you think of the cool advice so far? Is it a bit of bucket of cold water?
fwiw male here, and chime with all so far. She has a medium-sized lead and you are on the end of it. Sorry.

DeePancrisPandevenistaken · 28/12/2014 15:08

But to answer your question re 'wammagonado?'

It'll be much better for you to have a bit of a think as to why you are even contemplating a 'relationship' with this person, with her history and no clear plan to do anything to end her current relationship and turning down your request to spend time with you.

TonyThePony · 28/12/2014 16:34

So she cheated on her boyfriend but 'liked' him enough to stay with him?

And she is ow emotionally intimate with you, discussing her 'soon-to-be-ending) relationship with you? But not actually ending it.

I predict you're headed straight into an affair.

And if not, if she does end it with him and decides to be with you, genuinely, honestly, will you trust her?

Too much drama, too little reward.

AnyFucker · 28/12/2014 16:35

any thoughts, OP ?

TonyThePony · 28/12/2014 16:35

I use too many commas Blush and my keyboard doesn't really work so apologies for errors.

HelenaDove · 28/12/2014 16:46

"Behind it all, if I were to walk into a laboratory and create my ideal woman"

OP the perfect woman does not exist. There is no such thing as a perfect person.

That one sentence says a lot about you tbh.

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