I feel like i'm back in an abusive relationship only this time with my daughter

[18yearstooold]

Dd is 13 (also have dd2 who is 11)

I was with their dad for 13 years, split up when dd1 was 8

It took me years to recognise I was being emotionally and sexually abused and took me years to get out of it -but I remember well being unable to relax in my own home and feeling like i'm walking on eggshells, always putting myself on the bottom of the pile

Well it's all happening again, only this time with dd1
Today we are supposed to be seeing family, she doesn't want to go and I've woken up with a massive knot in my stomach, worrying about what will happen -her dad only visited my parents 4 times in all the time we were together, he would be 'ill' or cause a row to avoid it

Yesterday was a write off, apparently I got her nothing she wanted -I obviously don't even know her her dad used to say this or similar

Food is an ongoing battle, her dad constantly used to criticise my coking, telling anyone that would listen that I was trying to poison him

I'm really struggling to separate normal teenage behaviour and worrying behaviour

I've spoken to school who say she's a model pupil but I finally got a learning mentor to speak to her and she said she's incredibly defensive and has obviously got a lot of issues relating to her dad
Dd has been offered counselling but refused it

People tell me to just get her told, make her get in the car etc etc but that's not even close to being possible

It hurts me to see her so unhappy and that I can't help her but there is this fear that she is so much like her dad and she's not choosing a different path -she says she's who she is, can't help it and it's not her fault if it upsets people, they should just man up

I can't go on like this, i'm so tired of it all, it's got to change but I don't have the option of leaving this relationship -I love her to bits but this hurts

Yes, absolutely, Nettle. It's the running off to a dx that I am uncomfortable with - not least because it is a big step with major implications but also because it can waste crucial time if it is not applicable; the window is a small window, dx or not.

Anyway, it's the bog standard day-to-day OP has to deal with here. I am alarmed that OP has been accused of inviting victimhood, blinded by her own triggers, a hefty dx made about her daughter. Trussed up like Gulliver.

You get used to it, Miscellaneous, after the initial shock. Though let's hope your genes are strongest

sometimes you need to take other people's feelings into account But that only works while you are a child, yes? Because you didn't take hers into account today, did you?

She said she isn't coping..what isn't she coping with? Have you asked her, or do you simply think this is an excuse over & over again? You are teaching that she doesn't know her own mind, isn't that emotional abuse?

And I have been that child not listened to...always made to go out when I didn't want to, made to go to school when sick, dismissed over not being able to accept that my dad & brothers left when I was 6, not being allowed to see him (my mum thought it was better that I didn't see him, yet my sister - 2yrs older) was allowed.

It's hard when you think everyone is against you.

OP I am sorry for what you are going through, it's very difficult and I have watched my sisters struggle...sometimes to the point where it has taken over their life. My own mum was very good at not taking things personally, I remember her frequently saying "I will not throw my wits away arguing with a child" and she never reacted to the "I hate you ...you've ruined my life" rants. She was also a very loving and interested parent, but the dynamic was never friendship. BTW none of that stopped her 6 kids going through awful crap in their own way.... It just didn't play itself out at home as much. My sisters seem to get more sucked in to the minutiae of their kids lives. I know which of those approaches is better for the parent/family life and as an observation I would say it was about the same in terms of the children's outcomes. I don't have kids though, although I was a very challenging teenager. The control thing resonates but in my case it was my poor teachers I picked on to torment.

Differentnameforthis

I take her feelings into account 24/7 365 days a year

She said she can't cope in the same way her dad used to say he couldn't cope due to his depression, depression that he never saw a doctor about, got treatment for or even had diagnosed

She can cope in that situation and coped perfectly well

My family have been nothing but loving and supportive towards her

She knows if we go there and she wants some down time no one has a problem with her putting her headphones on or going into another room

My dd is basically content but she does (like her father) want to control me, so I get it OP.

She will tell me 'i want a hug' when I'm stirrig a sauce and then when I go to hug her she'll push me away. It's like she wants to be able to summons me and then reject me. I know that a lot of people will read that and think I'm parenting all wrong. But I do all the things you're supposed to do. I try to ign9re the criticism. Luckily her father isn't too involved so she's not confliced about his involvement.

I'd be wary of teaching your dd that when she says she can't cope she'll be disbelieved. You may be confident she'll be fine, and her dad may have been manipulative, but that doesn't mean she isn't honestly worried (alongside a dose of teenage contrariness).

Not that you have to give in to her whenever she says it, but I think long-term she'll be more likely to come to you when something's wrong if she trusts you'll take her seriously. Teens take the little things to heart.

But how am I supposed to know when she's being truthful and when she isn't?

I do listen to her concerns which is why she had a number of options regarding music, going to another room etc

She says she can't cope with restaurants -so we don't go

She can't cope with trying clothes on in shops so she doesn't and I end up taking back 90% of clothes because they either don't fit or don't feel right

I do make concessions for her but can't do that for everything surely?

really I would urge you to look closely at PDA. she is sounding more and more like my daughter, and NONE of the real extreme behaviour came out until she hit 12. And she does 'appear' to cope with lots of things, but the sensory overload/anxiety is all under the surface and either shows itself once home and safe, or is internalised as depression and potentially self harm.
And if it IS PDA then yes, concessions for everything, certainly in the short term and allowing her far more control of herself (but not you) is the way forward until she feels safer all round. Her dad leaving and then rejecting her will have seriously affected both her self worth and her feelings of stability/security.

Keep the boundaries up while you're looking into eg PDA (you just will look into it, I exxpect. As we do as parents. Most of us, anyway).

It's tempting that while you're looking into possible reasons for poor behaviour you will slack off with boundaries. Always a good idea to keep boundaries up, though, regardless.

Perhaps encourage dialogue along the lines of 'I' not 'you'. eg 'I feel' not 'you are' (which is attacking). Takes a bit of learning but leaves space for any genuine concerns to be expressed. If she feels she can say 'I can't cope' then she can go on to say why, when you ask.

Hi op! Hope you are doing ok and hanging in there. I dont know where you live, but this charity is fantastic and helps families in exactly your situation. They may have links to others in other areas too. Hope it helps.

www.wishforabrighterfuture.org.uk

Actually we've had a very chilled out weekend of reading, TV and eat what you like

I will look into PDA

I've often wondered about ASD but I've always been poo pooed when I've brought it up

ASD does present very differently in girls, it's only just on the fringe of being understood. Currently girls only tend to get diagnosed if it is very severe and/or they have a typically "male" presentation.

Good luck, I hope you find a way forwards.

And ASD can show very differently when its the PDA traits - so your child can be very chatty, do well in situations where they feel comfortable and in control, they can have lots of friends, especially in younger years, before friendships get more complicated and they can 'internalise' the meltdowns rather than be loud/shouty/violent.

People who know my daughter look at me as if I am completely bonkers when I say that she may be on the autistic spectrum, but when the anxiety kicks in, or she has held it together for too long, then you start to see the behaviours coming to the fore.

This lunchtime we had a stressful lunch with family in a public place. She was life and soul of the table (although alot of the conversation was All About Her) but once we got home she began to feel awful and the behaviour started to spiral out of control - starting with demanding attempts to grab my attention, looking for an argument, moving into picking on her brother - screaming about him speaking, and ending up with her under a blanket under the table growling and kicking her legs. Probably about 3 hours from start to finish. Afterwards she cant explain why she has behaved that way, feels pretty mortified and sorry about it, but pretty much unable to control or prevent it. we are lucky that she doesnt do anything too bad too often, but the control and the tricky/argumentative behaviour is pretty constant, and making direct demands on her can flare it all up and out of control quite rapidly. She is also very similar in the food department - horribly picky, chooses very expensive items and then refuses to eat them ever again, chops and changes what she says she likes and doesnt like, etc. Will also refuse food/drink if it isnt exactly what she fancies, or she thought she might get something else.

www.thepdaresource.com/
www.facebook.com/groups/pdaglobal/
www.pdasociety.org.uk/

Nettle that does sound an awful lot like dd

She will scream at her sister for chewing or even breathing wrong sometimes

When she has a meltdown does she come out of them quickly?

Dd is not remorseful after but very defensive but if she sees someone else behaving like that she will acknowledge it as the wrong way to behave or bad behaviour

She had loads of friends when she was little until playing independently started around 5/6
She would have a friend over to play and plan it to the minute, friend would stray from 'the plan' and that would be it!

18years sounding more and more like her, especially if she did this from young. And yes yes to the 'breathing wrong'!!

sometimes my daughter will come out of them quickly. Its only fairly recently, or if she had really gone OTT that she is expressing remorse, quite often she feels very justified in her behaviour - its always someone elses fault!

One of the 'things' with PDA is knowing all the rules and being very adamant that others should abide by them, whilst at the same time not actually thinking that they apply to themselves! My daughter is constantly monitoring my son to make sure that he doesnt digress from 'the rules' and tries to take over the role of telling him off when he does.

I think the big defining question is the one that asks 'does your child view themselves as a child - do they recognise that older people have authority over them - or do they view themselves as another adult'

The comment you make about straying from 'the plan' is very interesting and again quite typical PDA behaviour.

The daughter on this blog exhibits very similar controlling behaviour with her friends, and we have a friend who's son will dictate where we sit when we go to his house, and try hard to direct the conversation and action.

Christ. Well. I've had a look at those PDA links out of curiosity and they totally describe to a T the exact thing DH and I have been puzzling over with DS because it just doesn't make sense.

It's not a serious life affecting issue because he is six, but for example every time he is asked to have a shower it's the end of the world. It happens every three days and he has a chart on the wall to count down to it, but every single time. As soon as he's in there he sings away perfectly happily. Maybe I should start a new thread - I don't want to hijack OP's one. But absolutely everything in your latest post, Nettle, is DS. Right down to telling people where to sit - he's always done that.

Nettle how did you go about a diagnosis

I've asked for a referral before ref ASD and was told 'there's not enough markers' 'its because she's intelligent' never understood that 'she's doing too well at school' etc etc

I havent had a diagnosis as yet, although GP and psychologist have written to refer her to the ENC in Nottingham for assessment. Just held up waiting and waitng for the funding to come through (possibly) from the local CCG. Or Not. We may yet have to try to go private, but will mean a huge trek up North for us.
Get onto the facebook forum and ask a few people for advice.
The 'not enough markers' thing is bollocks, especially if they are only going for the typical male presentation. The FB support group can help you put together the info as to where those markers DO apply if they have the gumption to look at it properly.