"But we took you to stately homes!!!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's December 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
October 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Needgloves, don't apologise for the length. Or ever think you have to treat your kids the way you were treated. A few posters have made that point upthread with considerable eloquence, and reading back up to them will do you good.

One of the friends who've been helping me asked how I'd treat someone who did to my kids what was done to me. Considering it like that helped a lot. You don't have to be bloodthirsty about it, even. Probably shouldn't, in fact (my rant included phrases like 'castiron alibi' and 'remains found over an area big enough to contain twelve spoken languages', I was feeling a bit giddy with the insight). But it certainly helped me put it into perspective.

Chiggers, I have to admit being disappointed to learn your name wasn't a Space, Above and Beyond reference. I'd been kind of hoping you were one of the three other fans of that show...

Since my mother turned up uninvited a month ago ish there has been only one text exchanged talking about the weather. Today I received a parcel with a couple of things gkr the children , no note ?! Very strange. I'm not going to contact her. Why would she send something like this ? To prove what a great person she is ?

something Is your mum the type who likes to say to people "Oh my GC are my world, I love being a Grandma, I spoil them"? If so, then yes she'll have sent it to keep up her self-image of being a doting grandparent. If not, then it's probably an attempt at hoovering, with the aim being you contact her.

Ezekiel my rant included phrases like 'castiron alibi' and 'remains found over an area big enough to contain twelve spoken languages' Yes I had a similar little moment of my own. It's an eye-opener, isn't it?

Hello all,

Not been on here for a little while, been caught up with work. Having one of those mornings, DD ( nearly 4 yo) was sick all over her bed in the night and now has the runs, been doing loads of washing all morning. Then my period started out of nowhere (I usually get a bit of warning) and ended up having to change my clothes and put my jeans in the wash.
Luckily DH is off work today, so he's taken DS out to do the supermarket shop and I'm here with DD.
Been pondering a bit about my mum. No contact since she sent the DCs presents at Christmas (but refused to reveal her address "in case G2B sends them back ). Knowing how she is a fucking psychopath I don't expect to hear from her ever again, except maybe birthday presents for the DCs, agian with no return address. All that is easier for me day to day, but obviously is weird as hell. It doesn't hurt too much these days, it just is how it is, but so many people with toxic parents seem to be fighting them off in a way, having to ignore contact. Is there anyone else out there whose parents basically have cut them off in revenge for standing up to them?
it sometimes feels really weird to think of her out there in the world somewhere but ignoring me. Does she think about me/us? it's like she's dead, except she's not. I see things that remind me of her, i.e a tennis tournament I know she likes being televised and I know she'll be watching it. I can't explain. Like I say, it doesn't hurt really, it just feels so SURREAL. Does anyone know what I mean?

:o ezekiel you've just reminded me of that series. Loved it but it was cancelled :( 4 fans now ... Am asking husband to dl it again.

Interesting idea about what you'd do if someone treated your children the way you were treated. Yep, I'd be having an interesting talk with someone in blue in the cells too.

good, i think toxic people come in two varieties. The ones who refuse to accept that you want NC and hoover endlessly, and the ones who go NC themselves because they can't bear it that they can't have things entirely their own way to the tiniest degree. Over the months there've been quite a few people who have said their parents cut them off dead. Flat. No contact ever again. Either overtly "you do what we say or we'll never speak to you again" or more subtly like your mum, you let me contact you whenever I want or I'll have nothing to do with you. There are more Hooverers than NC types, I think, but what's in common is that they all demand complete control.

i got a long way through preparing a post then realised i hadn't seen there was another page now! so stopped myself from x-posting, but have copied the rest here so i didn't lose the thread of what i was saying!

So sorry to hear about the gift gifting without return address ! Is that deliberate... if so very fucked up to actually be able to preempt and effectively remove that option from you.. FFs.. the depths of it, unfathomable, really!

I think is a phase, that surreal thing. I know that mine are out there, and i just know that they will be doing whatever they want to do, ensuring their best efforts to keep everyone else from me too, isolate me completely, but not surreal. Its a long time ago for me, but i can remember it might have felt that way for a while, another phase that passes ...happily.

So.. here's my previous copied post:
hi needgloves sorry to hear of your abusive ex. So good to hear that he is an 'ex' tho!

You mustn't attribute your background to your now relationship. Please leave the blame where it lies, there is no link between being brought up the way you were and landing in another abusive one. There are vast numbers of abuusers out there, and many abused as children find themselves in healthier healing relationships as adults, do we 'blame' their time being abused as the reason they landed up in healthier ones?

The main thing you are out. There is a thread you could find very supportive for coping with having an abusive ex, and the recovery from that. Its often the case that the abusive ex will use the DC as a way of maintaining obsessive and unhealthy contact with you, just to haveheopportunity to keep a link between you, to continue to abuse. Being separate of course doesn't stop him being abusive, thats a fallacy. Many also fall into the trap, like me, that an abusive man can be a good father. he can't... its what people like to see, so thats how his actions are interpreted.

Welcome to the thread here on being the child of abusive parents, separate from your current situation and something you might be finding surfaces as a result of your recent separation, that you are seeing ill treatment more clearly as a result of your distance now.

Being only so recently out and now also feeling the effects of your mother treatng you this way is such a lot to deal with. Do you have other supports in real life? Friends that understand, or other siblings/family that understand?

Now mypost is v v long!..

just wanted to reply to Chiggers too.. sounds bloody awful! yuk! glad they are not here! dangerous little burrowing things.. nightmarish... yes, there are other names .. i had heard of that.. but hadn't quite realised the extent!!

and & for everyone else hopefully enjoying Valentine's day in whichever ways .

My mother won't use the title Grandma. She never has , she used to say , see what dc1 calls me. Dc1 is disabled and non verbal . Dc2 is disabled too but has amazingly learned to speak , still behind peers bit v positive . I asked my mothe to choose a grandma title a month or so ago as that would help dc2 identify her but she still refuses. It was that , that actually was the last straw. Dc2 needs clear names to understabd , how can your ego be more important than helping a 2 year old understand your role in the family.

why on earth would she refuse to have a grandmother-name? Not because they are disabled surely -?

Hi pocket, yes it was deliberate. I asked my brother to tell me her address as she'd emigrated without telling that she had gone or where she was going and she told him not to reveal her address to me "so that G2B can't send the children's presents back".
Because I'm SUCH a bitch obviously. . It's all more ways to have a dig at me and paint herself as the victim (favourite role).
It's good to know the surreal phase eases off. I have to say, that complete NC in general has been very good for my mental health.

good good G2B

but horrified at the extent of her 'workings' I shouldn't be really should I.. we know what they're like! and still its a surprise - thats a good thing. I hope i'm always surprised by the low-down tactics of the low life!

Sorry, sugar, got confused and called you pocket. :)

no worries

Well I feel like crap :(

I've been trying so hard to just 'get on with stuff' and it hasn't worked.

It's my birthday. Time slowly trickling away on nothingness.

And I'm going back to work tomorrow.

misc, you're getting through the days, somehow. You are getting there.

How is your boy?

hoping you can enjoy your birthday x

Hello, I've lurked for a long, long time.

Not sure why I finally feel the need to say something, my sister treats her children exactly like our mother treated us. It breaks my heart to see it, for that reason I've been NC with her for over a year now. I do hope I can develop a relationship with my nephews and niece when they are older.

I look at my children sometimes and see the child I was, and cannot comprehend how a parent could ever say or do the things that were done to me to their own child. I probably spend far too much time trying to understand my mother and my sister, I feel like in some way I've failed because I don't get it, isn't that stupid.

Anyway, I now have weekly-ish contact with my mother, it's crept up again over the last couple of years but things are changing. I've recently stood up to her, this was the first time ever. She was talking about getting old and needing help and she said something like I know you'd never put me in a nursing home. Me caring for her has always been a family expectation - I took a deep breath and said out loud (not just in my head!) that I would never be her carer, not ever, and yes if she needed it I would expect her to live in a nursing home. I couldn't look at her when I said it I just looked at the floor, I felt like such an evil person - what kind of daughter refuses to look after her own mother - but I said it. The whole world went silent as she looked at me, thankfully my daughter then distracted me and I changed the subject. She had a quiet weep on the sofa, this was where I was supposed to comfort her and tell her I didn't mean it. For the first time in my life I looked at her and saw the manipulation like a neon sign flashing above her head - I just pretended I hadn't seen her cry.

Things have changed between us since I said this, I feel like the balance of power has shifted, she still tries to manipulate a lot but I feel detached from it, I can see it clearer now.

Just typing that out makes my stomach tremble with anxiety, I still can't believe I said it. It's thanks to this thread that I was able to, I guess that's the reason I'm posting, I wanted to say thank you to all of you who have shared your stories, you have given me such strength knowing I am not alone, as although my DH tries to understand and fully sees my mother for what she is, he finds it hard to really get it, his mum loved him very much.

captainofmysoul, good on you. Said it out loud. Lot of folks on here know how hard it is, but I've never heard of it having bad results.

Actual example: I started talking a few weeks ago. Not likely to stop. Other survivors come and talk to you. The sense of not being alone is a heady one.

Hello captain and welcome. Well done for saying what you felt to your mother and for not falling into the guilt trap.

misc wishing you a peaceful and calm evening for your birthday, and a smooth return to work tomorrow.

Not been on for a long while. Mother has been diagnosed with something that I cannot remember the name of right now that is life long, and limiting for her (sympathy in the dictionary somewhere) and I have had to look after my Nan on top of sort my lot out. My husband is depressed, and I, well I am just plodding along miserably right now.

captainofmysoul ~well done~. It must have taken SO much to say that.

Keep strong!

Hallo financial .. it sounds pretty tough at the moment. I hope you can draw pleasure from the small things in life and take some time just for yoruself, sometimes.

And lo, it's my birthday so the perfect time for Her to call to say her pensions not been sorted out though my dads cancelled and it's due end of this week and she has no money.
Today was already shit enough.

Did you tell her to fuck off? Can you block the old bitch or change your number. You don't need that shit. You're doing great, even though it feels FAR from it, honestly you are.

Just reading that thread about the woman's mother who lives with her and wears her clothes (the OP's clothes)..I see Meerka's read it too. Giving me horrible chills of a couple of years ago. Had a dream about my toxic old nut bag mother last night. Been wondering about her lately, what's she doing? things I think of and wonder about. Don't worry, not going to get in touch, just still amazes me sometimes the way she stormed off and emigrated in 3 months flat. All that "I can't manage" crap and look, she sold a house and cr in a foreign lanaguage, organised an international move with 2 cats and bought another house in Britain. Blows me away sometimes!
I expect we'll get a PA present for DS at the end of March. A present for the child she says is "the light of her life" and yet she hasn't seen since 21st August 2014. Really still blows me away, I can't begin to fathom her. And then she's offered an olive branch and she just basically says (in narc speak) "you're insane and made it all up".

Think I'll do my diary for therapy on Wednesday and write all this down ;)

Sadly with someone like your mother it's either All or Nothing, from the look of it. Total inability to genuinely communicate. So sad for everyone.

btw, your mother obviously hadn't thought that you might just bin any presents from her! all that 'in case they are returned' stuff is just plain crap isn't it. Passive aggressive or what

Well, exactly. I mean, why would I go to the lengths of posting something back? I'd just bin them and pretend they'd never arrived if I were so minded. I think it says more about her, what she'd do out of spite and to make a point.
No point even thinking about people like that, they make no sense, or sucha warped sense you can't begin to unravel it.
Cup of tea and a chocolate biscuit and crap daytime tv time. I have a tidy house and no work in and kids not back from school til 2pm. Bliss.

Hi everyone, I have lurked here for a while.
I've decided to write something because the situation with my parents and PIL is less straightforward now.
My basic question is, when you want to have very limited contact with your parents, is it best to formally tell them this, or just drop out of their life and be evasive about seeing them?
Since my teenage years I have had very little contact with my F (not D). He was abusive when I was a child. I don't think he understands that he was very cruel, because his own father was also cruel, and he has grown up as a strange, isolated, selfish man. When I see him at family events I usually exchange pleasantries then move on. This suits me. I kind of thought he was aware that I dislike him. However I now have DC and he kept trying to talk to me at family events over Christmas, asking questions about them, hanging around trying to engage me in conversation. It really threw me. I have a really strong negative reaction to him, it makes my skin crawl. I was horrified that he seems to not realise that anything is wrong. The thing is, I don't want to actually tell him that I am NC/ limited contact with him. I would find that conversation excruciating. I only show my strong, independent side to my family, and to me that conversation would return me to the weak child that I was, and the thought of it makes me feel physically repulsed, it is a really strong negative reaction. Also he would have zero insight, I can't stress that enough. I would rather just avoid him as much as possible. But is that a cop out? My previous therapist said that people who had difficult relationships with their parents were often really thrown by their deaths. Would I cope better when he eventually dies if I told him how angry I am that he was such a shit parent?