"But we took you to stately homes!!!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's December 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
October 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

sunflower what your mum is saying is so mean. I hope people have the sense to see through it.

Thanks everyone for the good wishes, we're much better now. The Pipsqueak is having bad nights though, but hopefully that will imrpove soon :)

worry i wanted to say something about your mum and the funeral but I'll say it tomorrow, don't wnat to triple post!

My head is in a scramble today, I will come back tomorrow and try to post properly. I also worry about anything being 'out there. If i post on here, maybe a member of my family will read it and recognise any of the details. Nowhere feels safe.

So, thankyou for kind replies, will be back tomorrow when I'm thinking clearly and trust my own judgement on how much to say. Listening to myself it does sound like I'm in serious FOG today!

Oh, and yes chimichanga always been the scapegoat. Feeling stronger and clearer for writing even these few words. I was the only one who stood up to my stepdad, although my mum already disliked me well before then. Everything I hear about her is through other people, but it's them.coming to me. I wish they'd stop, I want nothing to do with her.

oh gawd yes always

just put it in a box and throw it away

just stop it is another one i love

yes Meerkaonly very occasionally do people change. Abusers are the rarest breed of 'changers' on earth

sunflower you can write whatever you like here, mix up anything you need to hide your real identity. Whatever you feel comfortable with.

isn't it so sad my mum already disliked me.. yes, feeling that too.

Been thinking more about what's the reason some parents are markedly different from their own abusive upbringing, and some people end up repeating the cycle...

I've been thinking about this all last night and come up with not one answer, but a few qualities which are necessary to do this.

I am aware I was distracting myself by focusing on this, but hoping there's something in it beyond a way to take a break from grieving for a while?

I wrote lots but here's my short list of thoughts... It is just my stream of consciousness and no idea if there's a proper thought in here somewhere, but here goes...

We are breaking the cycle because we have both a drive to change AND the ability to change.

Qualities I've noticed through reading the posts on here from really inspirational people , and observations in rl life etc.

1. Capacity for truly Unconditional Love
2. Capacity for Honest Self Reflection (to gain insight)
3. Capacity and Desire to Change (act on insight to grow)
4. Strength, resilience (a thread of self belief)
5. Hope (that things can be better - gives purpose and meaning)

Other qualities that I kind of folded into the others or haven't thought through yet:

Perspective - looking beyond the 'right now in the moment stuff' that feels important now, to see beyond that to see the bigger picture

Empathy - I sort of think it's part of healthy love but actually it's different isn't it? And very very necessary. Understanding the effect of your own actions on others, seeing how your child feels is vital to not being an abuser. But then maybe part of abusers is empathy, the thrill of knowing how you've made someone feel (ugh)?

Purpose not sure if this one is just me really, given my life at the moment, ds is really the only positive, so ignore this thought if it's coming from that ? But to some extent I've always felt a sense of purpose/ a call to Do Something with the experiences and 'learning through seeing someone doing it so so wrong... A weird kind of 'triumph through adversity' type thing. I have hope and self belief that I Must be a better parent as by doing this, striving for this, I am making sense of the senseless misery of my upbringing. I guess it could have manifested itself by a calling to help children in other ways too, not just do it right for my own. Btw, don't worry, obviously I won't be laying that on my child, as he should never feel he's my purpose in life, poor kid! But maybe it might be part of the healing process???

Bravery -I know this one isn't just a personal quirk - I don't think we should under estimate our bravery :)

misc there's so much gold in that post there. Mind if I take a copy to mull over, before the thread moves on and it gets lost?

Misc There are usually 2 ways of seeing the bigger picture AFAIK. You can look beyond the present and see where you want to be, or you can just take a step back and see your situation as an observer would see it. It may help to imagine your good friend is in the same situation and needs your advice on what to do. A calm, measured response can make the difference between a person being stuck in a dire situation and moving on to a better life.

I think your thoughts of seeing beyond the present and into the future is probably the best way of thinking of a measured response to a specific set of circumstances. Self-belief is something we all need to build on, then self-esteem and our confidence will follow and rise. I've found that building up my self belief has also kept me grounded and humble. I've worked hard to get where I am now, but I'd do it all again if I had the chance. I don't see my mistakes as mistakes or regrets, just experiences, skill building and learning curves in the wonderful journey of life. I find it so much easier to accept that I will not be able to control many things in life, so I figure out how to deal with the aftermath IYSWIM.

If I was to recommend anything, I'd recommend that people do a bit of self reflection every day and appreciate everything they do have. Appreciating that I am alive has helped me to love life and people even more than I though I was capable of, and I feel able to relish the fact that I can't control everything that happens in life. Every knock-down has seen me gather the strength to get up, dust myself off and move on to the next bit.

If I could give just one piece of advice to anyone, I'd tell you to never miss an opportunity to build up your confidence, self-esteem, strength (physical, mental and emotional) and resilience. Appreciate the knock-downs you have because it all helps. The more you do that, the more you can asses each situation and take the opportunity to make amends and/or let it go as an experience to be learned from. This is why I wake up every morning and can't wait to get the day started .

Well, I have to go now, but I'll be back later. Take care all you lovely ladies

chiggers
If I was to recommend anything, I'd recommend that people do a bit of self reflection every day and appreciate everything they do have.

This is something I've been doing since new year. Every night before getting into bed I think about something I've been pleased for during the day and say out loud that I'm grateful for it.
"I'm glad that I achieved target today at work"
"I'm glad that my pain levels were low and I managed 5000 steps"
"I'm grateful to have a lovely purring pussycat on my bed"
"I'm happy that I stood up for myself at work and told someone their attitude was unacceptable"
"I'm glad I pushed myself to sit on the top deck of the bus" (I'm frightened of the stairs!)

I think it's so easy to get into a constant negative attitude and focus on the things making us unhappy. By refocusing on something positive it makes me feel happy and calm.

chimi
I have had no contact with my dad since 1988. He wrote a couple of letters when I still lived at home which I burned without replying (I wish now I had kept them as evidence, I can't remember what they said but I suspect it was quite damning.) In 1999 his new wife got in contact with my mum and gave her a big sob story about how sad he was that he didn't have any contact with us. For some reason my idiot mum thought it would be a great idea to tell me this, which sent me into a huge depressive and anxious spiral that did not lift until I moved away in 2001. Also idiot mum did not say to new wife "they don't want any contact with him because he's a fucking scumbag child molester" she just said "oh well it's up to the girls, I'll pass on the message".

5th day of no contact with mum and counting... and all quiet so far

misc
I have hope and self belief that I Must be a better parent as by doing this, striving for this, I am making sense of the senseless misery of my upbringing.

Yes, this. Over the last few years of my son's MH troubles I have taken comfort in the thought that all the years of shit I have been through have been slowly making me stronger so that I can be the rock for him that he needs, in the way that my mum never was for me.

Just stealing this from another thread:

littleunderdog Thu 12-Feb-15 10:58:48. The very best way to get over having a toxic mum is to be as kind and loving as possible to your own kids. When I wasn't sure how i ought to behave - because what my mother had done was so crap - I'd think; What would an instinctive animal mother do? So, for instance, I was very protective to my kids when they were tiny and as a result they've grown up confident and brave.

Some wise words posted in these last posts.....sorry no time to respond individually just now.

Just found this quote and I think they should print it on T-shirts ( rather than the mindless claptrap-drivel that you see in shops) tbh! It's pertinant to everyone, but not least, to victims of abuse from toxic family members and partners......

“Your value does not decrease based on someone’s inability to see your worth.”

I think I will engrave this on my brain and use it as my personal mantra, esp if I hit a low point

I'm glad this thread is still running, it's helpful.

Both my parents are dead now (have been for ages) but I was wondering about the difference in parents being willfully neglectful and willfully abusive. I think my father was un-willfully neglectful but he had special needs (low IQ) but my mother was willfully abusive and neglectful and had no remorse and also had Aspie traits but very high IQ. I still think about this a lot even thought they've both been dead for years. Neither one ever said sorry apart from my dad who, on his deathbed said "I never hurt you did I?" and I simply said "No" but felt I couldn't have said more as it wasn't the time. the one thing that still hurts the most is that my mother never once rang me or visited me once I left home at eighteen. She seemed to be glad that I'd gone.

Meerka, what you said, Oh So Very MUCH what you quoted. I've raised three, healthy, happy, ambitious youngsters - university and careers ahead of them - and a source of considerable pride and the one sure subject on which I can get all misty-eyed and happy.

So all that cycle-of-abuse-continues stuff? It can FUCK RIGHT OFF.

Even before I started in on recovering, I grasped that one. Making a bit of a mockery of all my minimising of it and reflecting on what good it did me. If I really believed that, I'd have inflicted it on my own kids.

oh fabulous how sad.

I think the one thing that we can all draw from these hideously sad and painful situations is that they really aren't personal, and the more I look at others stories here and the legacies of their parenting, the more i realise that people generally aren't really 'personal', but far more projecting of their own circumstance than that of others. Its all their own reaction.

I look at my family and glad i know the bits i do about how difficult life is made for any famly that try to contact me, the guilt laden upsets and probing questions, or blocking and shutting down.

We can all surely take solace from this?

You are so cool ezekiel cycle of abuse fuck off, here here!
I think its the minimising and normalising of behaviours thats scarily easy to continue to others/kids, but yes actually, too... having not done the same didn't matter that it was normalised at the time!?

The normalising of it though, and the minimising is the thing that as kids makes you turn the neglect/harm/hurts in on yourself, because if thats normal then it must be the child thats bad, because mum and dad cant possibly be bad, we idolise them, they are our everything!

but the difference is dealing with ourselves, despite the pain, and still giving to others and not taking it out on others?

this:
oh fabulous how sad

i've just realised how wrong that sounds, but youkwim?!

Normalisation... yes, it's horrible because I don't think a lot of the time that we even realise we're doing it.

My dad hit us a LOT, generally around the head. But I knew so many other kids whose dads and mums did the same that it didn't really register.

I remember recounting to someone once when I was older, we were having a conversation about swearing. I said "Oh I've always been a devil for swearing. When I was about 14 my mum decided that I was too sweary so she told my dad to "pick me up on it" if he heard me swearing. One morning at breakfast I had a bit of a cold, I blew my nose and went to put the tissue on my plate but it kind of bounced off and on to my dad's plate. I immediately said "Shit" because I knew he would hit me for the tissue. He leaned across the table and smacked me on the left side. My head knocked into the corner of the cupboard above the table, and I went "Bollocks!" so he then hit me on the right side and smacked me back the other way. Hilarious!"

And I really did think it was funny. Even now as I describe it, I know it was unacceptable but I still laugh.

And of course the person I was telling this was horrified. And I was like, "What?" I genuinely didn't understand why anyone would think it was bad. Because it was so normal.

(I also think because of the sexual abuse that he committed against me, everything else looked small in comparison.)

i never visited a stately home until i was 27

They're generally an interesting day out, but with a few exceptions kind of boring for a kid.

they're all the same

Where does your name come from chiggers ?? been bugging me where i've heard it before.

Sugar there are bugs called Chiggers/Jiggers in and around the southern states of the USA. Seasick Steve wrote a song about them. You may possibly have come across a few YouTube videos of people digging them out of their feet/legs etc. Nasty wee buggers, which is a bit contradictory as I'm far from nasty by nature. I've had the name for a while now so am thinking of changing it to something crazy daft. Now that's more my nature (daft, enthusiastic, cheerful, fun-loving etc).

Hello everyone, I am new here. I love the name of this thread, I think I must have been taken to every stately home in the UK when I was a kid. I remember feeling very bored and that it had to be endured.

I have a really difficult relationship with my parents. I was very depressed when I was a child (wanted to kill myself between the ages of 9-13), usually because of things that they said to me. I felt hopeless and wanted to escape. But the self blame was huge because I was often told that I was responsible for making THEM unhappy. I let them down, I didn't pull myself together etc.
I have recently separated from my abusive partner and my parents were not happy about it, implicating that it was all my fault.
But today on the phone they are all gushy about their love for me and say they are proud of me.
But then another day I am 'f**ing self absorbed' or 'hysterical', 'bitch' etc etc.
But then they get away with saying those things because they have proved that they are 'nice people' because of the nice stuff they have said the day before. So, they are nice people, and I am driving them to be harsh because I take things too far.

But I am sure that I am not shouting at them, merely disagreeing. I am told that I am aggressive, but I do not even raise my voice. I am sure I don't. My xp told me I was aggressive today because I said I am not happy about him getting drunk and standing me up and being hangover and stinking of booze on the weekends with ds.

Sorry, this was longer post than I intended x

Also, my mother and I could be getting on quite well for say, a week, and then if I don't answer one of her texts within 24 hours I get a very curt, business like deadpan phone message eg. Hello, this is mum calling you on Friday 13th February at 8.51 if you could respond to my call I would be grateful, thank you' and it really hurts! Like she is all nice and caring one minute but then I am aware that if I put a 'foot wrong' (eg. not replying straight away) she will not stay nice and caring
So basically I am constantly walking on eggshells and trying not to offend

Welcome needgloves

It's very common for those of us abused in childhood, brought up without self-worth, to end up in relationships with abusers. The reason being: we don't know any different or that we're worth more!

Well done on you for getting out of that abusive relationship.

Your parents sound like very cold and controlling people. It's all okay as long as you're doing as you're told... but put a foot wrong and you bring their hate and anger down on your head.

How old is your DS? Do you have a formal contact agreement in place with your ex?

Hi pocketsaviour, thank you
Yes, controlling is definitely the right description.
They value image and appearances very highly.
I almost felt as if I was an ornament that should not have emotions and just do all the right things all the time, otherwise I am a severe problem. What the neighbours thought was the priority. Unfortunately I came to be seen as a severe problem which is what I grew to believe about myself.
My ds is 15 months and my xp still comes over quite often to see him. We don't have any formal agreements in place, yet, it is still early days since the split.
He is emotionally abusive and a bit physical sometimes too.

Tonight when I mentioned to my mum about ds not settling down at night, she said I should just leave him in his cot shut the nursery door and let him scream until he falls asleep. I am not against controlled crying in times of trouble in fact I tried unsuccessfully tonight (peppa pig on iPhone was more effective!), but it just sounded so cold the way she said it. Like basically, just completely ignore him...