"But we took you to stately homes!!!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's December 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
October 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

being chucked out pocket its very different isn't it, taking a line with your DC when they do unacceptable things, so very different from being told '...piss off...' !!!!

Highly abusive DSF (is that the correct form?) without the D though clearly!

Standard tactic turn the DC against their DM. I have that here, only the abuser is OH! 'D' nothing!

Meerka soothing for tummy wobbles, it sounds hideous that fish thing ... you'll be glad to lay down tonight and wish the day away i would think! to wake up feeling lots better tomorrow .. lets hope.

I have a last night in hospital tonight... come home to grab a comfy sofa sit down, after hot shower, soup and toast, ready for another night! Tonight will be quieter tho. DC is a lot more comfortable now and her breathing much easier. i don't know if i'd cope so well and be in more of a panic in that situation of not being able to breathe!

Meerka Sorry to hear about you and your family feeling so unwell and generally yuck!

You won't be visiting that fishmonger again! shame there's no Chicken Soup symbol, wine doesn't seem appropriate really......[virtual Bovril, coming your way.

BTW, did you say your eldest is displaying "manic" traits? Just was wondering what exactly he's doing? God I hope he doesn't get diagnosed with ADD (attention deficit disorder). It's all a tactic to get our kids hooked on drugs. IMO anyways.

I'm super cynical of psychiatrists and even GPs with anything mental health related. "A pill for every ill" and all that.

Good evening ladies Who's up for a and a natter??? I may disappear for a bit, but that's because I'm doing a bit of my coursework each day. I'll be keeping an eye on the thread. I just wanted to give you all some too as you're all lovely ladies, and if it wasn't for you helping me see my situation with my mum for what it actually was, I'd be in a different world You've all been fab.

Meerka, sorry to hear you're feeling ill, as well as the rest of your family. I sincerely hope you start feeling better soon. Plenty of clear fluids (vodka doesn't count ) and easily digestible foods such as chicken, rice etc, or whatever you feel you can stomach. I'm sure you'll be right as rain soon enough .

Chimi, I do my best to keep fit, but when you have 2 staffords and a rebellious streak, I stand at the bottom of my hill and make a sudden mad dash to my door racing the dogs. I win every time, but only because I have longer legs, even though I'm a 4' 10" shortarse I'm puffed out when I get to the door, but I'll now recover in about 5mins and am then back to feeling like I just dawdled up without a care in the world . The only problem I have is when the GP tries to take my pulse rate in my wrist and can't find it , to which I usually reply "Oh, so I'm dead, am I? I'll just go home then" . He was astonished when he finally took the PR and had to take it again just to be sure he wasn't mistaken the 1st time. I'm on amitriptyline for my back (chronic back pain sufferer here), but I can't face taking it now as I feel so drowsy for days afterwards. I'm feeling better for it though and not foggy, lightheaded and seriously unsteady. I'm off them now and am sore, but feeling better IYSWIM.

Anyway, how are you doing? Any news on your front or is it relatively quiet? I hope you're OK ATM.

Sugar >I hope you're OK and your DC is getting better. It's hard being in hospital with a sick DC, isn't it? So glad they're breathing easier and you've had the chance to go home and freshen up. Nothing quite like sitting in a stuffy hospital waiting to see if your DC will improve or get worse. Having an abusive OH doesn't help matters, but you need to concentrate on your DC and you for the time being.

To everyone else on the thread: I hope you're all OK and able to come on here if you need to talk, or even just to get other angles into your situations. Please don't hesitate to come on here and ask for help as sometimes, when you're in the thick of an undesirable situation WRT toxic relatives/family, you may not see what someone else sees looking in from the outside. Anyway, feel free to grab a cuppa and a biscuit or some cake

Well got to go now for a short while, but will be back either later or tomorrow morning. Have made some tea/coffee for anyone who want one

Sometimes I still get that little guilty twinge for a moment, but then I read stuff like this and it makes me feel better, espcially the end about the only way being to break free and get FAR away and set your boundaries HIGH.
www.narcissisticmother.com/narcissistic-mother-enmeshment-2

For anyone wondering if their mother "is really all that bad" there's a good quiz on the same page as the link I just posted, look at the Piper Abuse Scale.

Thanks for that link G2B. Although my mum doesn't tick all the narc boxes, I think a lot of these are good indicators for generally toxic and abusive parents.

I was wondering today if there is a link between narcissism and sociopathy. For years I have been putting my abusive father in the sociopath box as he seemed to tick so many of those boxes: zero empathy, compulsive and risky behaviours, cruelty to animals, pathological liar, no moral or ethical values. But now I learn more about narcissism, it makes me wonder if there is any crossover, as he also would have fit into a lot of those behaviour patterns as well.

meerka I hope you are feeling better soon!

waves to chiggers I'm more of a cat person than a dog person, but I do like larger dogs like staffies, rotties and german shepherds. Actually looking at that list I wonder if I like those dogs because they make me feel protected? Many years ago I had a boss who bought a new puppy, a shepherd, and he brought him into work when he was a pup as obviously he couldn't be left on his own all day. And we worked all day together in my office, so the puppy grew to knew me very well. I used to take him for walks at lunchtimes too. I had a boyfriend who worked there too who was an abusive dick, and one day he was shouting at me and backed me up against the wall. The dog caught sight and he shot over barking his head off at the dickhead and then got between the two of us and just sat there growling. I was like Damn... someone actually has my back. And I dumped the dickhead on the spot.

chimi I don't get judgemental about weed because I use to smoke it a lot, and I'm actually in favour of legalisation and regulating the market. My son is an adult now and he chooses to smoke; as long as he's not smoking inside my house/flat then I can say no more. He smokes less than he did when he was living at home purely because he has less money. We do still have a close relationship but he is still up north and now I'm down south :( I pay for a coach ticket for him to come visit when I can but I wish like hell I hadn't moved. When he does have mental health wobbles I have to just comfort from afar and it's not the same as saying "come round tonight and I'll cook you tea and we'll watch TV". I want to move back north but realistically that's probably not going to happen for at least 12 months.

My friend has suggested my mother might have paranoid schizophrenia. Ummm maybe. Paranoid delusions are a better name for when she behaves so awfully and irrationally. But mh issues don't explain 30 odd years of terror and emotional abuse - do they?

oh thats hard Pocket hope you get to move back soon then. I fear for the mental health of those that smoke weed, as it can make permanent neural pathway chemical changes that actively stimulate or exaccerbate mental health conditions. Unfortunately I've experienced too many waste their lives away on the stuff, some causing me extreme personal distress and grief in the process, all for their weed each week. I also used to be hooked on the vile stuff, and it inhibits normal sleep too, even like nicotine does, you wake up with a weed hangover. so no... really not a lover of weed here. I think i know one person, who recognises, because of their position in professional psychology that it works differently in their brain to the vast majority of others.

thats so sad that it took a dog to make you feel that someone actually had your back, but a good feeling to have even a dog back you up and defend your position then!

dear Misc i don't think you need worry about MH issues, abuse is abuse and MH issue or not it still no excuse and we need to be careful of calling people with MH issues necessarily abusive. Certainly many use it as an 'excuse' for abusing when there is none.

she's just abusive, and i'm sorry that you had to suffer 30 years of her, I really am. If she treated everyone the same that would be a different story, but she probably was very careful who she showed what to? so she is manipulating and abusive regardless of her mental health condition.

i think we can 'give' them all reasons if we want to? I could say mine suffered terribly herself, and she did, but that doesn't change the way she treated me/us. she's suffering yes, but she's absolutely vile to me. If you can't say something nice don't say anything at all comes to mind, but she can't manage that she cannot stop going on about me to anyone and everyone. I think many are the same?

not conducive to sleep in here, but DC having a better night as much as you can.

"mine suffered terribly herself, and she did, but that doesn't change the way she treated me/us"

So so true.
She created my hell from her hell.

That's why it took me so long to identify it as abuse, as abusers are described as purposefully calculating it. And yes and no, never quite fit.

It's the worst thing in a way, she brought misery and destruction down onto our heads (lives, souls), and yet it was from her own pain and suffering, and caused her more pain, not happiness for anyone. Futile.

And I realised too late really. The rest of my family are dead, so I can't change it, try and heal it, learn from it. Useless insight too late to make a difference.

She has said, three or four times over the years, one of the only genuinely heart felt things she's ever said to me, that 'I'm a good mum' (meaning me, not her, sorry pronouns escaping me). She said it with a total incomprehension or bafflement, like she's utterly surprised, not in a nasty way (for once), but I think, because I show her a whole new way of reacting to a child, that she's never seen before. The way I think of ds before me, naturally, the way I'm always on his side, never take offense at anything he does or says.

Like, if he's having a screaming melt down, I'll be there rubbing his back just being there, with him. Then when he can hear me through the noise in his head, I'm asking him 'are you scared my darling? There's no need to be scared, don't worry darling. It's ok to feel angry, it's ok to feel like this and it will go soon, don't worry my lovely' cos I know he's not being horrible to me on purpose, or wanting me to feel angry back. He's lost in his tantrum and scared of the strength of his feelings, and scared he'll never stop crying, and just a tiny boy trying to cope with big stuff he doesn't know how to. And I know that cos I watch and listen, and I've thought about him, not just about how his actions make me feel.

Here's a small but good example. Once, when ds was 11 months, he had a chest and sinus infection, on top of horrible silent reflux, just diagnosed and trying to get the first doses of penicillin into him, late at night - so the worst bit of being ill for him. And my parents are visiting, taking turns to hold him as he's just miserable and high temperature etc. whilst I'm cooking. My mother suddenly exclaims to my dad 'oh take him! He hates me, he's rejecting me, he hates me!' And thrusts this poorly little baby away from herself! Just sitting there angrily with arms outstretched and poor ds screaming. I was really taken aback and intervened saying 'what are you doing? He's in pain! And less than a year old! It's not about you for fucks sake! He's needs comforting'

And she retorted (actually almost sobbing with self pity) that 'ds hates her, as he was arching his back and pushing his fists against her to get away from her' errr, not because he's struggling to breathe through all the mucus and trying to stand upright as he's hurting so badly then? Nope, obviously it's not the illness, temperature or any of that, he hates his grandma and has chosen this moment to make it clear... My dad took him and did some upright cuddling and back patting, and ds slowly calmed down, which according to my mother was 'proof' ds loved my dad more! I tried to explain that as ds was a baby, he wasn't capable of hate, or rejection, and from an observers point of view, what she'd actually done was reject him when he needed someone to comfort and hold him, but she just whined that 'I was so Hard and mean to her'

Gave me a horrible glimpse to the mind of such a self obsessed woman. No wonder I have such issues, she would have been like that to me from birth, and with my dad away alot, no one to check her or take over or compensate. I know from my very earliest memories, everything I did or said was interpreted as a vile assault on her tender feelings, but to see her do it to a baby, was shocking,

Self indulgent I know but I feel so sorry for me and my sister as tiny babies with her rejecting and punishing us over and over every time we cried or needed her.

Trouble is, I put so much store in being the mother she never was, and having such a close bond with ds, that when I'm struggling with him, I feel utterly failure and like a abusive parent myself :( Like at the moment I can't reach him, and he was crying tonight, and I couldn't make it better, and made me feel awful :(

misc that's a real eye-opening story. It's astonishing the extent to which these people think the world revolves around them. And to think that she must have displayed the same patterns when you were a tiny baby in need of comfort and reassurance.

Are you feeling better physically at all now? I saw where a couple of days ago you said you were having a flare-up.

Misc i don't think its ever too late... ? We only have now don't we? These insights and the self-care that you feel when you feel sorry for the suffering you experienced as a DC yourself is all part of the moving on, the learning and healing.

I think it makes parents feel helpless and hate it when their DC suffer. The only thing you can do is what you do, and do so very well, is just be there however you can... unconditional love. No matter what time of day or night, and how long for, or what they do, we give for nothing in return.

You obviously already used to notice it and having your DC might have given you that new window to recognise it through. Horribly scarey for you as a baby yourself, at times of needing comfort you were pushed out..

I think its an important step for DC to come to us for what they need too. To accept that some times they want to deal with things alone and other times be held.

Its great you can recognise something good she did at least! in acknowledging you as a good mum , its only a very small something tho in the greater scheme of everything else! A remarkably selfless thing for her to say!!! A moment of madness for her, mine was always blaming me to having been wrapped around my baby's little finger, that she had 'control' of me and i was at her beck and call (for whch i was very wrong clearly!), that i shouldn't have had the birth i had, that i should have allowed her to be there (never forgave me that one),shouldn't be breast-feeding as obviously i didn't have enough milk and was just being stubborn (again!), she could have said "You're such a good mum", but she didn't, nor did she help in any way, and as for my 'F', he just didn't come round. Lovely .

So i really wanted to say, that despite my 'existence' with these incompetents and the daily pain it caused, it does stop. The pain stops so its never too late. Death seems to bring it all up again, it did for me, but it was soo many many years ago now. I haven't carried it around for a long time. I don't feel pain when i look back, just unemotional now really. Can see the times i still managed to enjoy in my life despite them, so you will come to that place and move forward. This is just now.

You were blessed with your DF, and again, i am so sorry at his passing.

Morning all

Just having a muse, before I crack on with my extra-long To Do list, while the Titch is at nursery......

I find it interesting how so many people that are victims/survivors of dysfunctional parents are nothing like their awful mam/dad, and bring their own kids up in a healthy and normal, loving fashion. However, the perpetrators often (not always, and it's NEVER an excuse obv) often have been victims themselves of this type of abuse, from their own parents ( our grandparents, that is).

I read about that a lot on this board and it makes me wonder how some victims go on to be abusers ( hopefully a minority only ), while others ( like us lot! ), recognise it for what it is cos it makes us so unhappy and we break the cycle, going on to be the loving, well-balanced parents that we are.

I really can't understand how someone can suffer and be so miserable, at the hands of their parents but then go on to do exactly the same to their own kids......! I especially feel this when the problem is physical or sexual abuse.

If you are abused as a child, are you statistically more likely to go on to become an abuser? Despite having suffered terribly and knowing that this behaviour is wrong? Just wondered how some break the cycle and can form healthy relationships with others ( partners, their kids etc ) while others become carbon copies of their own abusers...I realise, however, that we are all just products of our upbringing. Those darn "formative years" again!

I just feel some people have a greater awareness and strength of character. They get to the point where they think " Feck this! This isn't how my friends' family are. This isn't normal. I'm miserable and so I'm getting the hell out of here!" Or similar.

We might want to try and understand why and how they (parents) got to be so warped and nasty, but there's nothing we can ever do to change them. We gotta just cut our losses and run. Leave them to their own journey and to get on with their own wretched existance, imo. You cannot reason with unreasonable people, and all that....

Good morning Ladies. How is everyone?? Hope you're all doing OK, or as well as can be considering everyone's circumstances.

Waves back to Pocket. My staffy bitch is a complete soppy goofball and my male staff is a big clumsy oaf. He is so soppy too and loves to give lots of slobbery kisses to anyone who walks through the door. You'd walk into my house dry, and leave the house dripping. The lady who rescued my male staff, used to come to my house for a curry, dressed in bin bags with a towel to dry herself They're very much people-loving dogs, so make crap guard dogs unless trained in protection work. Funnily enough, the dogs that have been demonised over the last 40yrs (rotties, dobes, GSD's and staffies) are the only dogs I've been in contact with that I haven't been bitten by. I've been bitten by yorkies, Chihuahuas, westies, collies, spaniels, labs, retrievers etc, and I have friends who have had many different breeds over the years.

When I did my research before getting a dog, I wanted one that was great with kids. I searched the UKKC website and found that Chesapeake Bay Retrievers and SBT's were the only 2 breeds out of 190+ in GB, that were recommended, by the KC, for families with DC. It didn't say that SBT's were buck eejits(silly daft dogs) . They have a very high pain threshold, which is needed for kids and toddlers who don't understand how hard they may be pulling at a dog's skin/ears. So it certainly makes sense to get one with that quality, which generally means that they are less likely to snap at a child/adult. My friend had an SBT when he was younger. He (staffy) was very patient and loving toward DF's baby girl and protected his DD like a mother would with her own DC. He was an amazing dog. TBH I don't think you could ask for a more loving family dog . I'm growing as a person and my staffords have taught me how to really love, although I don't go round licking people . I draw the line at that.

Anyway, how are you this morning? It's a funny old world when you think that you're alone in what you're going through, then you come on a forum like MN and find that there are plenty of people who are going through similar circumstances. It helps to know that there are others who can understand (to an extent) and appreciate what you're feeling about your situation IYSWIM. It's good to really appreciate the understanding and advice given on here and, from that advice you can pick and choose what bits would help you manage your circumstances better.

Sometimes we need to appreciate the things we have and not worry about the things we don't have. By that I mean the good relations we have with our own families (DC, OH's, other decent relatives) and decent friends. The toxic people in our lives, well, we could do with getting rid by going NC, but that's an action that is easier said than done TBH. We all need to look after our MH to be able to effectively look after our wee families, and if that means going NC with toxic relatives, then so be it. It may be better to not think about the process of going NC and just do it, because there may be a point where the more you think about NC the more you become indecisive about it. This may be due to the initial barrage of toxic behaviour from the person you go NC with. I understand that not many people want to go through that, but that is something to get through and it WILL pass eventually. It's a short-term thing and just remember that the calmer waters are on the other side. It's just a matter of waiting the storm out.

Anyway, must go to class, but will be back later. Take care everyone

Chiggers I am fine thanks (re your 2nd last post ). It's my birthday next month and my Granda always sends me a card. So if there's no card this yr, that's how I will know that he did, in fact, get my email re the disastrous Xmas visit, and my true thoughts/feelings on everything. I did say in the email that there would be no more visits.

My friend has suggested the "uncles" that he lives with ( well they live with him cos they never actually moved out! Even though one's retired and the other is mid 50s ) may have intercepted the msg so that Granda didn't get it, but the proof will be in the card or lack of.

I actually find it easy being NC with them, the hard part is the working up to it. With my estranged "mother", it took yrs but I distanced myself physically for yrs prior ( by living in different parts of the country for work/life experience), so that was easy. Plus I never rang her and I would only see her at my Granda's house. But that was her who arranged to be there when I was there as my Granda told her when I would be visiting. I didn't instigate any contact with her.

I wanted it to be a clear message to her that I'm making no effort with her and have no interest in her as a person. I'd checked out, emotionally, for donkey's years, from her. So when I did see her (rarely) at Granda's I would make small talk and give the most minimal amount of politeness that I could get away with. She may as well have been a stranger at a bus stop as far as I was concerned.

When you actually go NC with the main perpetrator, it actually gives you confidence to deal with any other toxic family members, I find. I feel I've done my grieving/coming to terms with it all a LONG time back. It's just such a huge relief. I was that fed up of putting on this facade of politeness and even having to buy Xmas presents etc, just for show, when I absolutely despised the woman! No more pretence....phew!

ChiggersYou are funny How on earth were you bitten by sooo many dogs? Were you a Postie? teehee.......I always thought Staffies were dangerous and on the Dangerous Dogs list I honestly thought they were aggressive as a breed. Maybe, like any breed, it's how the owners train them (or don't bother to!) that results in the temperament of the dog? TBH I'm more of a cat person. Lower maintenance and no need to scoop the poop for the entirety of it's life

I'm feeling a little better but still scared at the whole thing. Me & DS are so fragile and it's terrifying I can't protect him.

I'm going to collect him from school today, as he came home last night utterly devastated over his show & tell. Probably more about all the stuff he's going through rather than the actual thing I think. I haven't even met the new teacher who started in January, and I'm not sure what to do / say... But I can't continue to leave ds without any support or adult engagement with the school :( Nanny's are ok but they are not able to do more than the basics

But am not well enough really and I think am going to do it wrong (& cry). This is exactly what is so awful. I have to choose between letting ds down now and risking my health all the time. God I hate it. And am crying again. Shit:

I'm really struggling at the moment. Had a complete crying breakdown episode when driving home from work yesterday - overwhelmed by sadness and guilt I think but don't know why. Just trying to make sense of it all.

I know I'm feeling sad having only attended my Nan's funeral last week and I miss her but its also having seen my dm after a number of months of nc. She came up to speak to me at the wake when I was crying and I had this sudden overwlheming urge to hug her, say to forget everything. I didn't (which I'm glad about now) but she spoke of saying she realised she's been a crap mum, hates seeing me cry etc etc and have had a text in last few days saying similar (including she misses me and the dc's). This left me seriously doubting my thoughts, opinions of her and perhaps 'it wasn't that bad' and that maybe I need to give her a chance to show me she's changed. But then I recognise that I'm feeling guilty, upset because I'm aware she's upset and that since I was a child Ihave always felt responsible for her feelings/happiness. I'm trying to remind myself of the things she did when I was young - moving ex step dad in literally as my dad's walking out the door, going on holiday abroad with him several times and leaving me and dsis with her friend, moving to another part of country with ex step dad and db and leaving me with my dsis and her bf when I was 15 and about to sit my GCSE's. Plus more recent 'behaviours' by her - accusing other step dad of being a paedophile, threatening to stab him and his new partner, I could go on!. Overall only contacting me when wanted a moan, has something negative to say as as usual current new dp is more important than me and her gc's whom she's not really made a huge amount of effort to see (blames by dh for this - apparently he's 'an unsociable git' - erm no, he's just grown to dislike you over the years having seen how you treated me!).

Having read this I'm feeling less sad and more angry! I've just completed the 'Piper Score' thing someone suggested up-thread and 5 out of 7 areas come back with being significantly affected.

Sorry to go on - has helped to just write it down. Perhaps I need to continue nc with my dm for time being whilst I continue to try to work through things and try not to feel bad about how my mum may be feeling. Not wanting to upset my dh either whom has been a rock to me over past few months.

And the irony being i work in mental health! It's so much easier sorting other people's problems than my own!

Worryworker,

You're only responsible for your own happiness, not hers as well. That is not yours to carry (although she has likely conditioned you over many years to carry her). I doubt if your mother has herself given any real thought to how you feel, these people tend not to worry at all about the effects of their actions on other people.

I would remain no contact with your mother; these people can say all they want but its actions that count and is there any real evidence from her now to truly suggest that she has changed her inherently selfish ways?. I cannot see any evidence to suggest that she has changed, talking to you post wake is not positive proof of any change. It looks to me like she is still wanting to treat you as a confidant and using you also for when she wants a moan.

Such people like your mother are really not worth expending your precious mental energies on; these people are not ready or even able to accept that they are responsible for their actions. She was a toxic parent to you as a child and remains both a toxic parent and grandparent to you and your children respectively.

And well done you also for resisting any urge to hug her at the wake either.
A chat and a text message (text to my mind really is really non communication) does not even begin to start to scratch the top surface of all the rubbish you got put through all those years ago.

I did not hug my MIL at the funeral service or wake and am very glad that I did not do so either. She does not want that for a start, she is a cold fish emotionally speaking.

worry I think you've kind of answered your own question within your post

Actions speak louder than words. And her actions are bloody shouting!

Attila thank you - what you say makes sense as usual. You're right a chat and a text is no positive proof of any change. Actions speak louder than words right?

My dm suggested in her text that she write down all the things she knows I have issue with her with and confront them one by one with me and 'hopefully put them to bed'. She also said she deeply regreted all the upset, uncaring and selfish things she's said or done in the past and wants to make it up to me. I want to believe this and that she'll change/show me she has but then I wonder whether she'll make an effort to do/behave way she thinks she should eg; take interest in my/my dc's lives but will slip back into her old ways again because she won't be able to help herself. I've been honest with my dc's to a certain extent (they're 8 and 6) about why they not seen their nan for a while (not that they saw her much anyway) and the genuinely don't seem bothered!

Cross post pocket- both of us saying actions speak louder than words!

You're right, I probably have answered my own question - seems to be clearer when written down rather than a jumbled mess in my head. I go from one minute feeling sure I know what direction I should go in to then feeling very unsure and terrifie - anyone else feel like this sometimes?.

chimi
If you are abused as a child, are you statistically more likely to go on to become an abuser? Despite having suffered terribly and knowing that this behaviour is wrong? Just wondered how some break the cycle and can form healthy relationships with others ( partners, their kids etc ) while others become carbon copies of their own abusers...I realise, however, that we are all just products of our upbringing. Those darn "formative years" again!

Yes, being abused during childhood is one of the common markers for becoming an abusive adult. However, the individual always has a choice whether to go down that path or to woman/man up and say no I'm bloody well not taking out my crap on other people, fuck that!!

I honestly feel the main component is bravery. It takes guts to look at the past straight on and see it for what it is. It is also very painful to look at your own behaviour and realise how you are affecting others, and decide to stop.

Although not diagnosed, the way I behaved from about age 18 to 27 or so was clearly indicative of borderline personality disorder (BPD) which is extremely common in survivors of sexual abuse, especially when it's been within the family and has been covered up or ignored. I acted like a fucking twat to people and did some terrible things. Shoplifting, nicking car stereos, thefts from work, lots of lots of drink and drugs, sleeping around behind my boyfriend's back (including with some of his so-called mates, OUCH), massive temper tantrums sometimes, etc etc. I was totally out of control.

But I did get it together and I changed for the better and I've apologised to a few people I'm still in contact with (not the guy I cheated on though because I thought that would do more harm than good since he's now happily married with kids and doesn't hang out with the same crowd. I would have been apologising for my benefit rather than his if you get what I mean?)

I CHOSE to change. It takes real strength to actually admit "I'm weak and I need help." Admitting vulnerability and asking for help were TERRIFYING to me (and I still struggle with this now.)