"But we took you to stately homes!!!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's December 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
October 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

misc Im sorry - did not see your post.

Is there any chance of getting more help from Social Services? You're in an awful situation :((

I hope you are feeling a bit better now

Haha chimi yes a psychologist in the pocket would come in very handy sometimes, not to mention a pocket reference of abbreviations! I very often write my post out then end up going back to change the words to "MNSpeak". I am very quick at picking up abbreviations and acronyms - years of working in newspaper advertising on the lonely hearts column will do that to you... "SWF WLTM WM w/GSOH, N/S, N/K, for LTR" or "BBW seeks BBD 4 NSA fun"... But at least there you knew why they did it: because you paid by the word! I can understand that it's quicker to write "PTSD" than "post traumatic stress disorder" but it actually takes me longer to find the shift key and type "DS" than it does "son". Then you've got to remember that DD means dear daughter and not dear dad, that's DF... and you have to say DSis because DS is son and if you need to say niece or nephew you're out of luck cos they start the same!

ACOA (adult children of alcoholics to introduce you to another acronym ) have generally experienced a very chaotic upbringing due to the alcoholic parent being completely unpredictable. Some of the common problems are feeling responsible for everyone else's well-being; being either excruciatingly truthful or likely to lie at the drop of a hat; constantly seeking reassurance that the person they're with isn't becoming irritated or angry (ironically, this can make the person in question irritated!); tend to get into relationships with addicts and/or abusers; seek out other people to parent them, often their children; having no ability to set their own boundaries, and/or to respect others' boundaries; low self-esteem and constant negative self-talk; don't bother tending to normal household tasks or work requirements, since there were never any consequences as a child for failing to perform (alternately, becoming a perfectionist); inability to express own needs and wants; becoming attached to "victim" or "martyr" label; tendency to try to rescue other people... There's a big list of problems, from my casual investigations, and a lot of them apply to my mum. Unfortunately, she has never womaned up and tried to tackle any of them, preferring to stick her head in the sand instead and damn the damage to her kids .

Misc I'm sorry for your pain. I have never lost anybody close to me so I can't even begin to imagine how you must be feeling. I hope you are able to get some support in this current crisis.

Meerka " a phrase someone coined" eh?? LOL. I'm not really a fan of dialect that excludes others. Unless you mean it's the author of a book? God knows, but I'm a very plain speaking person so I think I will just remain so Do we really need a list to refer to, in order to "crack the code"? What a poor show and more than a bit unnecessary, me thinks.......

Exercise; well I'm thinking 3Xwk. I go to Healthcity, so I've gotta get my money's worth! teehee......

Btwn you and me ( cos I haven't told my OH ) That's "other half" for those not in the know, or if English is not your 1st language ( there are lots on here btw), Im gonna buy a juicer and do a stint of Jason Vale. After the carnival, obv

My OH has an irrational hatred of kitchen appliances so I'm just gonna sort of put it there and tell him it's my early Xmas pressie! He was over-joyed when my salad-spinner kicked the bucket (died). Totally out of proportion if you ask me......

And off to bed I go....cripes, don't the weekends fly by way too quickly? nite all xx

P.S Did I send you cake instead of wine?? OK low-carb, gluten-free, sugar-free cakes can be eaten. I think a goal of 1wk without alcohol? That's gotta be do-able?!

oh Chimi thats sad, noone here would mean it to be excluding, but i guess its just the stuff thats regularly typed here is all. i do remember thinking the same, as yes, it is like learning another language in a way, but certainly not a secret one.

it is the way with mn., especially the DD/DM/DF and so on. Flying monkey i don't know, thats a new one on me since i was last here too. i imagine this to be people like my mother who continually runs off to others to tell their tales and recruit to their gang.. thats my interpretation of it, someone with better knowledge will be along to put me right i'm sure soon.

LTB is something used on the relationship threads where abuse is not concerned generally. We don't tend to say that in any kind of abusive relationships because women have mostly had all their rights of decision-making taken from them and so its important not to place judgements or try to tell them what to do, but come to their own realisations when they have the strength to face it. LTB doesn't work for abusive relationships (normally).

Hello Misc sorry to hear you have been unwell. I am in hospital at the moment with my youngest, admitted earlier this evening in ambulance having had a nasty viral infection thats required she be put on oxygen tonight. Just sitting here while nurse doing her obs, and noticing how many many poorly people there are around here, and some very little DC making shocking breathing /hacking/raspy throat noises. Its a bad time of year for it isn't it.

I think it really brings the loneliness home doesn't it, when you're ill and need some tlc for yourself and there's noone there. Very hard. We're here offering holding hands, lending some support for you to not feel alone and to help get you back to strength. it will take time, and care from you for yourself too, lots of it, and whatever spare you have for your DStoo...

LMAO Chiggers at your post You must be able to txt/tweet at lightening speed lol! Maximum wordage with minimum characters indeed......

So the D is always for "Dear"? So all these heart-wrenching stories about horribly abusive parents/partners and the poster calls them "Dear"???

Surely the irony of that is not lost on me alone?

Sugar I've only been on the Relationship board since late Dec last yr so I'm just giving a newbie perspective really. How it's not clear or easy to read others' posts when it's a load of shorthand but I guess that will come in time...

Sorry to hear about your current situation. I hope your little one gets better soon and hopefully back home today? It's such a worry when it's the kids that aren't well to this degree

thanks Chimi i feel flat on my face now after busy night, DC doing a lot better than last night and still having the oxygen... managingto sleep sat upright, but i haven't managed much. She even slept through some of the obs, ate breakfast then backto sleep, why DO tey turn lights on a 6o/c. i was just nodding.

I can't bear to write 'D' father or Mother, as they really are not 'dahling' which is what i imagine MN stylee for D is. Does come across as excluding; from my experience it really is the commonly used phrases to make it quicker. i will often use 'narcM' or bfc (biological female creator). A new one since i was last here is TM as explained above toxic mother, which again avoids the 'DM' whch ha yes!!! completely bloody ironic and very uncomfortable for many/all?

stc I hope your daughter is better now. glad to hear she's improving.

much lesser, but husband and I ate a bad fish last night. Between many trips to the loo, our oldest son being manic (we're getting tests for it in 8 days' time) and the Pipsqueak teething + cold ... we're a rather glum household atm!

sugar glad your DC is doing better.

I have never been able to bear using DM or DF. I even used to have a hard time in real life saying "my dad". TM still never calls him that - she either uses his full name or sometimes used to say your father in a very pointed tone, which I found hugely upsetting. Like she was accusing me of somehow being responsible for him? I don't know, there was just a weird edge to it. As if she was saying "He's nothing to do with me!" Well you married him love

I used to be very active on sexual abuse survivors forums and a common abbreviation where was BSD which stood for biological sperm donor.

I feel really anxious this morning. Cat woke me up about 5am and as soon as I came awake was just aware of this fluttering in my stomach. Tried to get back to sleep but kept jerking awake in a sort of panic. I probably should have just bit the bullet and got up at 5 and had a coffee and distracted myself with Facebook games.

Turns out the church next door is only open 10.30-12.00 so I won't be able to go today as my lunch doesn't start til 12.00. But I have found out there is a church a little walk away from my home so I might pop up there on my way home from work and check what times they are open.

I know where this urge to go to church has come from, it's obvious really: the need for a belief that there's somebody out there looking out for me.

yes 'my dad', and 'my mum' very hard expressions to use.

thank you lovelies for the wishes, lovely to hear after tiring night, and yours sounds pretty hellish! well just hellish! all the vomit andpoo and no sleep and mania and little one teething and cold. What a night you've had! yuk! I hope you can all recover today. has the mania calmed down? thats a lot to live with day on day. yes your father.. what a thing to say, he's yours, is all it says isn't it. he's your father so you sort him out.. what a load of bollocks frankly! its meaningless.

maybe it means a forgiving community to you also? a refuge? I hope you find solace from your anxiety there

Reading the thread and waving hello, BPD narc mother in a RAGE of epic proportions at the mo, usual 'Stately Homes' type childhood with a vile stepfather in the mix.

Hello everyone, my first time posting on this thread.

It' dawned on my the last couple of months that my family is not the normal family I thought.

My dad doesn't bother really.
My sister is a cow to me and just seems to enjoy making me feel bad.
My mum is constantly being selfish and then wondering why I don't go along with everything she wants.

Fed up of the drama's, the constantly feeling guilty when I speak up.. I identify with the F.O.G. theory a lot.

Always thought I got on great with mum, but realised that's because I've always done it her way. As soon as I start saying no she doesn't like it one bit.

How do I go forward? She wants to ring me to talk about it all and I've just had enough and don't want to get upset on the phone.. I'm self employed and have so much work on a Monday, but after a shitty text from my sister telling me how upset mum is about me saying it wasn't convenient for her to stay, I'm so angry about it all.

I know this doesn't make sense without a backstory sorry.

outaid I feel for you. Biological mother had terrifying rages.

I hope you are not living with her now ... ?

roland as a general rule when you are fed up and decide Enough is Enough, there's a few general principles.

• keep calm
• plan what you will accept and won't - what level of contact is ok, an how they speak to you
• KEEP CALM. Really. You are taking the power here, the ok kind of power where you decide what you will put up with and what you won't. That sense of power can give you the ability to be calm in dealing with them. Getting emotional actually hands them the power back.
• expect a backlash. People don't like the status quo changing specially when it means someone standing up to them and expecting to be treated with respect. The backlash usually passes; it does happen that it's bad enough that you have to go NC but mostly people do adjust.
• get support from husband / close friends in the know
• expect the person you're standing up to, to send in other people like your sister. "this is somethign that needs sorting out and it's time to do it" is one answer; so is "this is something I need to sort out with Mum and it's between her and me".
• if people get abusive enough its -ok- to say 'I don't have to lsiten to this, we will speak when you are prepared to talk calmly".

sorry cantr write more atm, that fish is certainly taking its revenge

about her ringing - YOU set a time when it is convenient for this conversation. Not her. Small but important that; it's making it clear that your wishes have weight too.

IN fact if you dont'want to talk to her you can just say "i don't wish to discuss it" actually.

Hi Roland

I think your story makes a lot of sense even without a lot of backstory to it. Father is a weak man/bystander figure who acts out of self preservation and want of a quiet life and sister seems to have become a carbon copy of self centred mother.

I also think that no is a complete sentence. Start saying no and reaffirming/reinforcing your too low boundaries. You do not have to speak to any of them. There is no law to say that you have to keep in contact with family members who use their chosen victim as a scapegoat for all their inherent ills.

I would not be available to her on Monday (or any other day for that matter) when she rings to have her rant without any right of reply on your part. That conversation I tell you now is not going to go at all well. Infact I would now block sister's and mother's numbers from your landline and mobile phone lines.

Toxic people like nothing more than a) a fight and b) the last word. I note too your sister has been assigned the further role here of flying monkey i.e. sent in by mother dearest to do her dirty work for her.

"if people get abusive enough its -ok- to say 'I don't have to lsiten to this, we will speak when you are prepared to talk calmly".

The first part of that sentence is fine, but the second part is more problematic. The problem is that toxic people are never ever prepared to talk at all calmly. These people do not play and have never played by the "normal" rules of familial interaction. Its their way or no way as far as they are concerned; "dissent" is not tolerated.

Thank you for the support.. I really needed it today.

Everything has been fine for years, or so I thought, but now that my life is very busy and I genuinely don't have time for visits for a few days every couple of months I'm being made to feel bad!

My sister and mum live in a different country now, but that seems to be making my mum worse.. wanting to speak on the phone all the time, planning her next visit just after she's just gone.

Me and my boyfriend are quite introvert and we like our space and routine, and I keep feeling like I'm in the wrong for expressing what I want.

I can't do everything, and please everyone and I've just completely lost it today when my sister text, I was so angry that I was yet again being made out to be in the wrong.. maybe my sister was only told one side of the story, but still we're both in our 30's and I'd like to think she would ring me and ask if everything is okay, rather than just sending a snotty text about how I've broken mum's heart.

I'm not going to be answering the phone all the time anymore, it's been a big cause of stress as I don't have an hour every other day to talk when I'm working, who does?!

Still feel like I'm in the wrong, my partner and my best friend know the story and are telling me I'm right and it's not fair on me, but I still feel bad.

I've also ranted back at mum today with a couple of home truths, bordering on rude I fear, but I still think she has no idea all the crap that I have had to put up with from her poor/selfish decisions.

Thank you once again, it means a lot to feel heard and understood x

"but still we're both in our 30's and I'd like to think she would ring me and ask if everything is okay, rather than just sending a snotty text about how I've broken mum's heart".

She is not a nice sister and never will be nice or play nicely. The roots of all this dysfunction go back years and perhaps even before you were both both as well. Your parents caused this rotten dynamic and your mother has perhaps had a golden child/scapegoat dynamic going on as well. Sister wants to keep siding with mother so she remains favoured.

Again sister is playing role here of winged monkey; ignore sister and her text message. Text messages are really non communication.

I've also ranted back at mum today with a couple of home truths, bordering on rude I fear, but I still think she has no idea all the crap that I have had to put up with from her poor/selfish decisions.

I don't think your mother has even given a moments thought to the fact that her own ill treatment of you has caused this rotten dynamic to arise in the first place. I would not worry unduly about thinking that you have been rude to her either; these people as I say do not and never play by the "normal" rules governing familial relations. Infact they pretty much do what they want without any consideration of others (yes I am referring to you my MIL and late FIL).

As an aside, has anyone else noticed that narcissistic people really do not have or express any opinions of their own?. They take others opinions or ideas however, and then pass it off as their own ideas. My MIL being a case in point; in ALL the funeral arrangements like flowers, his obituary (awful, just awful. Perfunctory is the word) catering for the wake,(another thread entirely but I will just say she is certainly mean with money), even his coffin she expressed no definite opinion on what she would have liked. It probably just shows how little she really thought of him.

Attila, thank you, you are very wise about this, I fear I have a lot to learn and take in with this family dynamic that I'm only just realising. It's very sad in a way as I guess ignorance is bliss and I always thought mum was okay.. now I see clearer than anything how selfish she is. The times I've thought myself to be "sensitive" or "unreasonable" are actually times that I was expressing myself and being made to feel bad for that.

I don't deserve all this, and after a visit from mum and sister at Christmas where mum said a few things about my weight and my sister was just plain rude at time.. I suddenly thought "I'm not enjoying this visiting lark at all"...

As for your 2nd post, I guess narcissistic people don't think like normal people and maybe try to emulate a "normal" persona, hence the parroting of thoughts etc. I think sometimes it's only obvious to those who know them maybe?

Pocket sorry Ii was referring to you on my previous post, not Chiggers

Can you tell I'm new to this game? I had a brain once........ lol

I was having a snigger at you working at the Lonely Hearts column. You would understandably be a dab hand at the abbreviations by now!

Pocket I too say "I don't have a father I have a sperm donar!" Never set eyes on the bloke, nor him me, there was just the horrid mam's OH from when I was 3yrs.

I call him Dickhead but he always reminded me of a cuckoo. He moved in on her and they had a son when I was 3.5yrs, then I was always left out of this little family triangle, got all the punishments, totally disproportionate to the "crime", and gradually he turned her against me.

It all ended where ( at age 18yrs, when I found out he wasn't my real dad and I went in search of my natural father) he gave her an ultimatum. Either he or I would need to leave. And she chose me. So I came back from my YTS/Slave Labour and found 3 carrier bags of my stuff outside the front door.

It took over an hr of losing it (me), banging on door, then reasoning, for me to get back in. Well I had nowhere to go and wanted the rest of my stuff! All the while she's nowhere to be seen or heard.

So I bought myself 1wk and I got somewhere to squat and then a place in a women's hostel for the homeless. What a steep learning curve that all was!

My only crime? Retaliating and not wanting to end up some brow-beaten loser, bullied into submissiveness by Dickhead, like my "mam". But I will never forgive her for being complicit in letting me be slung out, like the rubbish on Bin Day. I find this total disregard for a daughter's safety and wellbeing totally alien. Esp as I have a daughter myself.

I never acknowledge her as my mother. I now just tell people I have no parents or that me and her are estranged. I remember her screaming into my face, at age 16yrs "I wish you would just PISS OFF!" So I did.

I ran away from home and lasted 8mnth. Not bad really......before having to eat humble pie and ask to come back cos me and my 1st boyfriend split up! God the shame......

Ah memories...we should all write our memoirs collectively and we would end up with a Yellow Pages-type munter of a book! lol

chimi that must have been so hard for your mum to sling you out like that. As you say, literally like rubbish. I cannot fathom how anyone could be so cold.

I did evict my DS when he was 17... I caught him dealing weed from our house It was a very final straw. But I didn't just sling him out, I gave him a chance to make things right first (he didn't), then I gave him a timeframe, and I helped him access alternate housing.

He has actually said to me now that if I hadn't made him move out that things would have got worse and he'd have ended up probably getting arrested. He thought this dealer he was working for was a great guy, he was bragging about how much money he was going to make. Then the dealer asked my DS to stab someone for him [shocked] Bit of a wake up call!

Pocket Don't be giving her no sympathies now! "Hard" my arse LOL......
Well I've written before about weed on here, and I can totally relate to that.

Dickhead has always been a pot head and dealt all the time when I was a kid. Grew that shit in the greenhouse, loft....most kids come home from school to the smell of tea being cooked, I came home to the smell of grass being dried in the oven! And my school uniform always stank of hash cos it used to get dried in the dining room above the heater, and that's where he'd sit getting stoned strumming his guitar that he never actually learned to play!

Yes we had some rather colourful characters visiting our house back then...Interestingly, my half-bro still lives at home ( he's mid 30s) and he's a pot head (probably other stuff now too) and has a drink issue. Given his dad and his mam, with her drink prob, is it any wonder?? No shit Sherlock! That's why I'm glad I got kicked out. I escaped quite a fate, I think...

That must've been so hard for you, putting your son out of the family home! And to be requested to stab someone??!! WTF??

How is your relationship now and how's he doing? Drink and drugs can monumentally fcuk up the family dynamics, and must've destroyed SO many people's childhoods and relationships with family members. Beyond tragic really.