"But we took you to stately homes!!!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's December 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
October 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Sorry to hear that sugar That does sound crap. Even when I felt like she was causing some of my distress as a teen I'd have never told her because I wouldn't want her to put that on herself etc.

My DM also does the overly critical thing but you are not allowed to point anything out to her, however nicely or carefully. Because then you are just being nasty and attacking her

I felt wholely and utterly responsible for her mental well-being, knowing that if i went against her in any way she would fall apart - That sounds very familiar actually. Hope you're doing better now

orchard welcome. I read through your thread and you definitely belong in here.

I think you and I probably have a lot in common. You sound very self-aware and strong and assertive. However it all falls apart when it comes to your TM, as if your brain makes an exception loop to say that normal rules don't apply to her and you just have put up with anything she throws at you because "that's just how she is". I do exactly the same thing. I'm very straightforward and assertive with colleagues, friends, partners, I take zero shit off anybody who crosses me... except my TM. She will be rude as hell to me, cross my boundaries, slag off my DS, rewrite history, come out with horrendous bullshit... but up til now I have just let it all wash over me.

Now I feel like the scales have fallen from my eyes at last and I am really beginning to feel the anger I've been smothering for so long.

I also noticed in your thread you said you ended up making her behaviour into amusing anecdotes. I do this as well (between me and my Dsis, and I also did it with my XP.) It's good to laugh and get some perspective on her behaviour but I think for me that I've also been minimising it and putting it in the "Oh look at what mum said now, isn't she a batty old fruitcake, haha" rather than looking at her hurtful behaviour and saying "hey that's not right". Do you know what I mean?

oh yes.. thank you Orchard it was the unspoken secret that I carried all my life till being old enough to just stop it, and not take that responsibility any more, doesn't change that she blamed me for it, her i am used to, its the impression she keeps giving everyone else and the guilt that flies around her towards them if they have anything to do with me. So outcast I am, its just a bit painful at the moment with the latest one.

Perhaps i should slide off her and head to the 'nasty daughters who deserve to be family outcasts' section! As that's where they'd all put me, one family member, having had a couple of drinks one night said 'I wouldn't want to be in your shoes'!!! when we were talking about the situation. She's vile and vindictive.

'here' not 'her' - ...slide off 'here'

My mother isn't right. She's not making normal decisions. I suspect my dad was covering up for her. She's always been a mn awful combination of unpleasant + unrecognized mh issues, but now ...

I had a family :( ruled by a highly un stable abusive and scary woman. Then through denial, ignorance, minimising and neglect, my sister and my dad asked and leave me alone with HER.

I feel cursed but if I say that people will think I'm mad too :(

My parents have a heavy load to bear, as it was a combination of medical neglect, and parental neglect that meant my sister died, two days before her 33rd birthday. After a life of pain, surgery and terror. The week she died there were chances, symptoms, to try and save my darling sister. But it was belittled as usual.

That's how, when I got sick too, it was really easy to diagnose, by the catalogue of my sisters body as it slowly failed her. And after I'd been diagnosed, my parents were so deep in denial, guilt and shame, they never got checked out, never monitored. Refused even usual tests for their age. And then my dad does too. He thought he had been saved, and told me he'd so it properly, have all the monitoring, had been a wake up call. But it was too late.

How will I ever make sense of this? And is there any point, if I'm going to die too? My family is cursed and I spend all my life trying to heal and understand and make a life from the remnents thrown to me... And every time I dare hope to hope, something else awful happens and leaves me even worse than before.

I can't keep fighting and pretending I'll ever be allowed a life with love or hope or happiness.

I've been trying to do some nice things with ds and I'm pretending that we're normal again, and it hurts so much and I don't know how long I can keep the awful reality from him, I feel like I'm keeping him in a pretend bubble giving him false hope.

Sorry what an ironic autocorrect. From 'died' to 'asked' :(

I wished they'd 'asked' they didn't fucking ask, they fucking died.

" had a family sad ruled by a highly un stable abusive and scary woman. Then through denial, ignorance, minimising and neglect, my sister and my dad died and left me alone with HER"

Pocket oh yes, I have/had a serious awareness blind spot until I had DS wrt DM. And yeah my friends often say things like "god your mum is so intense/full on etc" when I joke about the latest thing she's said or done.

Sorry to hear that sugarcoated. My mum sent me this around midnight

Crying myself to sleep coz I've been rejected by my own daughter - the most important first thing in my life .. Heart broken I am . You really have got me all wrong re, implying you're manipulative .. Plus asking if a bad tummy us linked to your MH isn't that bad and came from a good place . I know I pissed u off sticking up for ex but was trying to be supportive . Ok I get it - you don't like me of want me in your life anymore ... You don't need me getting you down as u see it - but can't talk about these things. You have no idea how much that hurts. Guess I have to suffer . Sincerely hope ds doesn't repay you in this way in later life ! Take care. Love you

So she's already talking of cutting me out rather than addressing the issue I broached in the first place that started all this. And it's in text speak. I hate text speak I also didn't sleep because this made me so mad. And do you know what, if it was me and DS and he was so obviously hurt by me I wouldn't throw a pity party, I'd do my damned best to put it right because I love him and care about him, fiercely. If he struggled with guilt and MH issues etc I certainly wouldn't lay that on him.

And that sounds horrific Misc. You sound lovely and she sounds poisenous and vile. It sounds like you're doing your best. That's more than some people ever do

orchard
Heart broken I am
Read this in a Yoda voice
It's amazing how they can just rewrite even the very recent history, isn't it?

misc I'm thinking of you. You are so deep in grieving right now and I can hear the pain coming through your words. Have you been able to chase the MH referral from your doctors? You might also try calling CRUSE and see if they can help with anything? I haven't used them myself but know a couple of people who had support from them after bereavement and said they were very helpful.

Please treat yourself very gently at this time

Yoda voice makes it sound less nasty! I'm trying to ignore the fact I feel awfully guilty.

dear Misc if you feel that you cannot manage this alone and need more than to talk here please know that you can reach out to get more support, and to keep on doing it. Your GP should be heavily involved in supporting you and your DS right now and I'm wondering where they are?

Coping with a parental death is hard enough, but when its so awfully conflicted.

You are protectingg your DS, and thankfully he knows nothing of everything thats gone on. Over time I am sure he will come to realise that things are not right with your family, but he will see that all the more clearly because he's not grown up with that being his normal. How is is getting on at the moment? Is he managing the grief ok?

You are giving him a different life, a much better life without all that going on. Thats good and right, but also you need to have something for you otherwise it impacts what you can give to him. Please take something for you. To be able to reach out in real life.

Sorry to just wander in - NC because one of the principals in this tale is a mumsnetter and a quick search tells me she's still active.

I kind of just want to shout this into the darkness. Pretty sure I don't need advice, I've got friends (one of them the mumsnetter I mentioned) who're rallying round. I just want all of the details in one place where I can find them and down straight in my head and it's going to get buried in this thread and it's kind of on-topic. And I don't want all this written down where someone might find it and know it's me.

Oddly enough, one of the few memories of my childhood I consider quite happy was, indeed, a visit to Blenheim Palace.

For years I've thought had bipolar disorder. Long bouts of depression, periods of being wound up like a clock spring, mad self-distracting enthusiasms. Someone I know who's actually bipolar called me a textbook case.

The medication helped, some, but it was getting in the way of work, and I had a big project that was supposed to be finished by christmas. So I came off the medication. WHich let me get the work done and finished to schedule but after years of mood-flattening I started to feel things with a lot more intensity. DP as then was got, understandably, alarmed at how moody I was getting and suggested the relationship was in trouble. So I dumped her. And then had a HUGE breakdown. Barricaded in my room, closest I've been to successfully killing myself since I was 15 (and that one left me with a scar I've got thirty years later and I'm STILL lying to people who ask about it.)

Anyway, the crisis passes, and there I am, broken down, emotionally spiky, split up from a woman I miss terribly (she's being an absolute brick as a best mate, though, so there's that.) and I start noticing patterns as to when and where the spikes are worst. I'm spending a lot of time around my parents and they're having a bit of a rough go. I get worse when my mother raises her voice. At first I think it's just reacting badly to conflict around me, but after a while, no, it's just her.

I go for a drink and a chat with now-ex DP. Out of absolutely nowhere I start telling her bits and pieces of my childhood, and make the connection.

You see, I got hit a lot when I was a kid, after early years raised by grandparents. I then managed to spend my entire adult life hanging on to two mutually inconsistent ideas: that it was entirely wrong to hit a child, that corporal punishment is a waste of time as it teaches nothing but fear and resentment AND that it made me the tough, resilient character I am. Which I'm demonstrably not, of course, I spent new year's day with furniture piled in front of my bedroom door, weeping, fighting with the urge to find something I could use to do myself in.

And as I'm talking to ex, I start telling her about the worst incidents, and spot the pattern. From about when I was ten - just before I started secondary school - to the Incident With The Scar when i was fifteen - just before I left to get the hell away for nearly ten years, overly-strict corporal punishment parenting, harsh even for its time, became violently abusive. Dad was away a lot, expat engineer things, did a lot of projects that had him away for months at a time, and so he'd only ever come in on the aftermath when he'd be given to understand that I'd misbehaved and needed to be punished. My siblings - a younger brother and two younger sisters - I don't recall getting it as bad, but I've not compared notes, ever.

The first really serious incident - accused of calling her a bitch, I'd not opened my mouth - I got beaten and since I was in the bath at the time, I remember my head being held under the water for a bit. The last, she tried to stop me leaving the house to go to school, but I was big enough to barge past her and get out anyway by that time. When i got home from school I got quite a long flogging with a belt and threatened with care proceedings, because apparently being big enough to stand up to it was a major sin. With hindsight, that one got so bad - it wasn't over in a day, and I think it might have gone the whole weekend because she could see she wasn't going to be at risk of me really fighting back. She wasn't, it took a real rush of courage to just shove past her, but she sold it to Dad as me turning violent on her out of nowhere. These incidents were either end of years of verbal and physical abuse. I'd have to explain away strap marks all up my back in the PE changing room and I got the piss taken for being beaten. Which, looking back, didn't bother me nearly as much as it should have. The end of it was with this incident, though, with me trying to throttle myself (not the soundest plan I ever made) choking mysef unconscious and falling over. Hit my head as I went down, and the scar from the seventeen stitches in my face I have to this day.

Been minimising it for years. Telling exDP this, I'm sat there in the pub weeping, finally got over the too-tough-to-care-it-made-a-man-of-me bullshit.

Thought that was where it ended. Resolved it's best to forgive, revenge profits me nothing. So day before yesterday I spoke to my Dad, who happened to have the day off work. He'd known she was hard work, but hadn't been aware of how much was going on. My littlest sister, who's the other mentalist out of the four of us, has apparently told him we'd all have been safer from mum if he'd not been away so much.. He'd had similar experiences - his father had come back from the war with advanced shell-shock and beat both his children. Put my aunt in the hospital at least once. Dad had therapy a few years back and is the better for it.

And then the bombshell drops. I have, as standard, two grandfathers. The miserable one with the PTSD who was known to beat his children. And the one I really loved, mum's father. Funny, full of the kind of nonsense little boys love, silly songs, daftness. Followed THAT example with my kids, who've turned out to be pleasant, well-adjusted young adults even though their mother is a right pain, and DAMN if I don't now get why I picked someone I was so hugely unsuited to to marry. I thought that was NORMAL. I've kept it up now my siblings are reproducing and I'm Officially Favourite Uncle.

Except that he sexually assaulted at least one of my sisters and would have done both. I've not been given the full details, pretty sure they're not mine to know beyond the bare fact. My sister wouldn't let Dad press any action at the time, and he's gone beyond all punishment now. I carried the bastard's coffin. Cried for the loss.

Dad, to his mild discredit, noted that he was getting far more pious in his old age, so made sure to raise the likely afterlife of Jimmy Saville with him repeatedly in his last months. With supporting scriptural citations about millstones around necks. Cruel, but if I'd known I'm not sure I could've resisted making sure he feared hellfire in his last moments.

And now I know why I got beaten. Because if he was doing it to his granddaughters (he had three, my two sisters and a cousin, who died in a house fire at 21, and had a LOT of behavioural problems that are looking bloody suspicious now) it's no great stretch to imagine he'd done it to his daughters. Both my mother and my aunt are very maladjusted, my aunt to the point that she's only barely functional with regular care and she's been that way for years. Dad says mum denies he ever did it to her, but I don't see how she could have been this angry for this long otherwise. And, after he died, I cared for Grandma for the year or so she outlived him - took some time off on Carers' Allowance to sit with her. And she mentioned him maybe twice in all that time. After nearly seventy years of marriage.

It makes it harder and easier to know about that. Easier because I understand the abuse now. It's hard to take it personally. I mean, the one time I ever got bit by one of my dogs, poor thing had his paw trapped in a fence he'd been trying to jump, and was out of his little doggy mind with pain and fear while I tried to free him. Nothing personal, dress the injury and move on. Or a toddler throwing a tantrum, it's annoying as hell, but nothing personal.

And it's so much harder because I can't hate any more. I know it's going to take a lot to consistently remember where the aggression is coming from, to not take it personally, but I know I can do it.

MiscellaneousAssortment, I know words of sympathy aren't much, but can I offer mine? And don't let her stop you trusting in the help of good friends and all the professionals there are available. It's scary as hell to open up and actually ask for help, but it's more likely to work out than not and even if it doesn't, actually being able to talk about it helps a lot. I'm currently on a bit of a high from having done just that.

Welcome Ezekiel, wow, that's quite a story. I'm so sorry you had such an awful childhood, are you having some therapy? I have to go now but I just wanted to say welcome, this is a safe place, feel free to talk all you want. There's always someone here to listen. WIshing you peace and strength, will try to pop back later.

xx

Sorry I've been a bit awol.

orchard I saw your thread and I think you put your thumb right on it: your mum has a huge amount to do with any MH issues you have. A lot of what you say is the kind of (sometimes unconscious) gameplaying that really messes with peoples' minds and has a terrible effect, more than we realise at the time. Going LC sounds a very sensible thing to do. That text she sent is pure emotional guilt tripping. Low stuff.

Also, Susan Forward (wonderfully helpful writer!) came out recently with a book called "Mothers Who Can't Love" and your mum sounds just like one of them in there - the needy mother who makes her child into a parent ... offloads all her worries on shoulders that are far, far too young. sugarcoated Yours sounds like that too

Hello 123 ... sounds like your dad has her number!

ezekiel, we're listening. that is so so sad. The damage passing down the generations.

I am so glad that your children are healthy well adjusted adults.

It takes a lot of courage to face the shit. Your post will be buried as time goes on but I hope it has helped.

misc thinking of you. I do not believe you are cursed.

Ezekiel also sending understanding and support your way for the backdrop to your life and the daily trauma you faced. Like you say, actually its not personal, and it really does help when you're a kid to finally realise its not because you're a bad person, its because they are. Then you see the next layer, and realise they suffered horrendously too. still, its important though, to take the time to blame your parents for the pain they caused you, as they were the adults in your childhood that should've protected you, and didn't.

Please let us know if you want further comment, or whether you'd prefer your thread to quietly fade. We are all here for you for further support if thats what you are wanting and well done for getting all that out, yes, wow indeed, take care of yourself.

misc (((Hugs))) thinking of you

to all on this lovely sunny day (well it is here anyway!)

I said goodbye to my dear, sweet nan yesterday. That was difficult enough but I also had to see my DM for the first time in several months, having been nc. I was so anxious about it and as to whether she'd 'kick off' coz she's not talking to my grandad, 2 of her siblings etc. I became overwhelmed by sadness at the wake and was sobbing in a corner with my sister comforting me. My DM comes over saying how she hates to see me cry, addressing me as 'sweetheart' (she's never used this term before). She was right in my face, stroking my face, asking me what she could do to put things right and saying 'I've been a rubbish mum' (erm, yes you have!). No apology though. I said this to her and also about the time I told her I was struggling, having therapy etc and her response was 'join the club'! But generally, I just wanted her away from me.

It's laughable that she was asking me what I want her to do to make things better, because she seriously doesn't know! Too little too late. I was so relieved when she then left. Her new 'dp' gave me a couple of dirty looks too- obviously just heard my mums version of events!

I'm just desperate to get home to my own gorgeous little family (funeral was 4 hrs drive away from where I live). I realise more than anything I just want to protect them and she was never interested in my 2 dc's (her gc) despite saying yest how she misses them and me!

Sorry, just wanting to vent!

Sounds as if she had a right enjoyable time being 'nice' to you and putting on a show for her new partner. Well done for maintaining perspective.

Hope you arrived home safely.

Orchard noone can tell you not to feel guilty but don't

All that 'crying myself to sleep.. daughter rejected me.. most important first..hope your DS doesn't repay you..'

What an awful horrible lot ofstuff to say in a text!!! from the outside i would always go for the face 2 face rather than writing, so much opportunity for misinterpretation, esp. texting!

yes, Meerka it was the same it think. the 'emo-child-mother' thing, yes, definitely. shocking. Its understandable on her part, as I've seen the devastation in her own awful upbringing. Torn between two warring families and abandoned by her own DM now departed. She wanted me to help her, when she had none, its all consuming, like a black hole that everyone would get sucked into and very scarey! way way too much.

I don't know now, as I am the daughter that rejected her mother if that makes you feel in good company? Its not an easy thing to do. Not done lightly.

Thanks all, but just let it fade. I've spoken to friends, next time my littlest sister - who's an actual psychiatrist - is in town I'm going to see what specifically she recommends and if she knows who/what's good for what's probably years of ground-in PTSD. She's been gently hinting I should get treatment for years, and I've been obtusely misunderstanding her. This is one of the things that sort of crystallised into clarity when I finally got that last piece of the puzzle. Either that or the girl needs to work on her subtle hinting skills. (Already working up my mockery of said skills. Because, you know, I'm still her big brother. It's obligatory.)

Anyway, I'm quite hopeful of improvement, there are case histories of folks getting better after worse.

And while I'm refusing to go NC, don't any of you that do feel guilty about it - looking at you, TheOrchardKeeper especially. I'm doing it out of sheer fucking spite.

Afternoon all you good folks , Meerka, Misc, Sugar, Worry, Good, Cozie, Ezekiel, Orchard and Pocket. How are you all today???

Misc you can and will get through this and come out the other side. Yes, you may be battered and bruised, but you'll get through it. We're here to talk to you if you need us.

Sugar it takes a lot of thought about the situation, to come to the conclusion that you need to go NC with a family member/members. It's not something that is done on a whim. To go NC, it takes years of toxic behaviour aimed at you. They use you as a target for their nastiness and then expect you to be nice to them.

In some circumstances, the target is ostracised and almost left on the sidelines as opposed to being included, like a loving family would do. Inclusion and civility is only put on in public as a front to make others think that the parent is caring etc. What they don't see, is what goes on behind closed doors, and due to others not knowing and seeing that, they are led to think that you are the bad one. You may be seen as the daughter who rejected her mother, but you have good reason to do so and as long as you know the truth, why care about what others think.

If they ask, you can inform them that you have many good reasons to reject your mother, but just the mere fact she is toxic is enough for lack of contact. It's good that you know to keep her away from your DC for their sake, as dear knows what she may say to them about you. The one thing I have learned from toxic people is that they're cold and calculating, whether they know/realise it or not.

Anyway, got to go for my driving lesson. Will be back later, so take care y'all

Afternoon all you good folks , Meerka, Misc, Sugar, Worry, Good, Cozie, Ezekiel, Orchard and Pocket. How are you all today???

Misc you can and will get through this and come out the other side. Yes, you may be battered and bruised, but you'll get through it. We're here to talk to you if you need us.

Sugar it takes a lot of thought about the situation, to come to the conclusion that you need to go NC with a family member/members. It's not something that is done on a whim. To go NC, it takes years of toxic behaviour aimed at you. They use you as a target for their nastiness and then expect you to be nice to them.

In some circumstances, the target is ostracised and almost left on the sidelines as opposed to being included, like a loving family would do. Inclusion and civility is only put on in public as a front to make others think that the parent is caring etc. What they don't see, is what goes on behind closed doors, and due to others not knowing and seeing that, they are led to think that you are the bad one. You may be seen as the daughter who rejected her mother, but you have good reason to do so and as long as you know the truth, why care about what others think.

If they ask, you can inform them that you have many good reasons to reject your mother, but just the mere fact she is toxic is enough for lack of contact. It's good that you know to keep her away from your DC for their sake, as dear knows what she may say to them about you. The one thing I have learned from toxic people is that they're cold and calculating, whether they know/realise it or not.

Anyway, got to go for my driving lesson. Will be back later, so take care y'all

Apologies for the double post.......I haven't a clue what happened there

ahhh crap I was doing so well barely drinking and last night I blew it.

I REALLY want to cut it down to very low levels but sometimes you manage to reach the end of the week and god a glass tastes so good ... it's a release.

Kind of got the horrors atm; a thread elsewhere reminds me that my biol. mother used to say how like her i was, over and over and over and over ... "You're just like me!"

Since she was a violently engulfing tyrant with the mental stability and destructiveness of a hurricane, this was not encouraging. To put it mildly.