"But we took you to stately homes!!!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's December 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
October 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

HI

haven't had a chance to catch up with all the travelling and stuff so apologies if i'm crashing into something sensitive but i really wanted to share this read:

here

doesn't matter if you're not into the yoga path and have no meditation or mindfulness practice, just read the four functions of motherhood as they are incredibly perceptive imo - i found myself recognising posters on here and the dynamics of their relationships with their mothers and their wounds as i read.

Sorry, not caught up with the thread again, feel too ill (chest, throat and sinus infection) and also fuming that a proper mother would want to help (like I said I'm too ill to do barely anything, dp got a serious joint problem atm so can barely move and we have two preschoolers, even tidying up or doing dinner is a mammoth task right now but no fucking help, sorry)

Just a question, does anyone know of any material about narc mothers and children's privacy/relationships? My mother is unhealthily interested in my relationships, in particular my sex life and always has been, only just beginning to realise how weird this is and wanted to read a bit more about it

could start with reading the function of 'empowerment' from my link above your post santas. sorry you're feeling ill x

sorry should have said that article isn't specifically about narc mothers but i think the function of mothering of 'empowerment' covers a lot of ground appropriate to narc mums and especially those of the engulfing kind who don't allow normal boundaries and independence and separation to occur.

santas my biol. mother was unfuckingbelievably interested in that kind of stuff. Fortunately having being brought up by someone else, I realised very quickly just how weird and intrusive and cringemaking it was and went for Bland, Bland, Bland and Distraction Distraction Distraction. It was bloody creepy how she'd go on about my half-sister's bodies and suchlike.

She also overshared to the point of creating grey faces and ears that curled up in self-defence about her own sexual practises and other things I won't type here.

No boundaries.

In haste.

Honey Badger Finding that mother infornmation very useful/interesting :)

good mumfun - i found it very precise in terms of what we/our children need and what is missing/we need to give to ourselves if it can't be given at that point.

Hi everyone. Santa I don't have any material as such but I have read about the narc trait of being waaaaay too interested in children's sex lives. I'm going to have a look at Honey's article in a minute. Got some translation work in but will try to drop in later.

xx

www.daughtersofnarcissisticmothers.com/narcissistic-mothers-strange-sexuality.html

Hi Pocket, your right it's not normal to be so obsessed that it interferes with your day to day living. My mother did/does have similar behaviours and in the past it has tipped over into severe mental health issues.

Think I will take an earlier posters advice and start turning my phone off in the evenings.

I have been telling her for about 15 years that she has OCD. She will never admit it but it's very clear if I look at just a handful of incidents from our childhood. The time she screamed hysterically and picked me up under her arm (I was about 7) from where I'd been drawing a hopscotch grid outside and thrust my hands under a red hot tap, scrubbing and scrubbing, because she's "suddenly realised that the box I keep the chalks in, I think there might have been some batteries in there at some point and they might have leaked acid on the chalks, and then you'd be horribly burned." Because, you know, scalding my hands under the hot tap is way better

There was also the time I signed up to do a bungee jump for charity at my local pub when I was about 20. I only told her because I wanted her to sponsor me. She refused to give me any money, and then on the evening, she suddenly turned up, thrust her way through the crowd as I was being hooked into the harness, grabbing onto my arms and screaming "You don't have to do this!!!" (clearly meaning, "I don't want you to do this!") I seem to remember security escorted her out of the enclosure, I can't remember as I was concentrating on getting in the zone. She ran off again before I went up in the cage as she "couldn't bear to see my baby die"

Essex I never answer my landline at all unless I've made an arrangement with her to ring. I don't have caller ID, but nobody else has got the number about from 4000 telemarketing companies, so I don't have to worry I'm missing calls.

With my mobile, obviously that has caller ID but she won't ring it as she's too stingy with the phone bill. In the evenings I set it to automatically go on silent from 10pm to 6am, but I have my DS and my Dsis in the exceptions list so if they call, it will still ring. If you have an Android phone or a iPhone it should be quite easy to set up and could be the first step in setting firm boundaries with her.

Pocket she does sound really rather ill! and completely boundaryless.

On news here, I think my last remaining member of family has knocked me off his Christmas list now.

However, he is making plans to take family to stay with other family. I don't know if i'm just opening my eyes a bit wider and time to accept that they are all part of their own clique and it works in their way. One thing I do know is that she couldn't be happier. I don't need to see her to know that.

but it hurts, and for some reason i feel like it shouldn't upset me, and i should just get over it and move on

sugar I think it's just human nature to feel hurt when we're rejected, even when we know logically that the other person is making those decisions for all the wrong reasons. I think it's especially hard when the perception is that "most" people have strong, loving relationships with their families, and that if we don't then there must be something wrong with us.

I am not very good at feeling my feelings and I tend to immediately turn hurt into anger which I then radiate either inwards or outwards. I am trying to get to grips with feeling sadness when appropriate, but I'm very scared of it. I can't bear feeling vulnerable.

Sorry to hear so many people are affected by this. I was directed here from a thread I started but not sure I should be here. Looong story short DM has always been very intense, used me as a sounding board very young and seems to think my MH issues (just depression and anxiety) make me a manipulative bitch, out to ruin her life and worry her to death...which I apparantly get a kick out of too.

I finally told her she was really upsetting me a few days ago and she flew off the handlebars and was vile. Thinking of going low-contact because I'm starting to think she's got a lot more to do with my MH than I ever used to think. Still stuck in that "but it wasn't that bad and she fed/clothed/said she just cared" phase.

I think you'll find very good support on this thread Orchard keep posting it really helped me in the past with my narc mother to know others have survived such strange subtle behaviour from someone who is 'supposed' to unconditionally love you.

I've just had a text from my DM telling me to get in touch with my sister (overseas) then another message about someone who has died and 'it's more sad because he didn't speak to his brother for years' I KNOW she was implying that it was similar to my relationship with my sister. I've phoned to tell her I will block all communication if she keeps texting me with dramatic messages to try and upset me. My father took my call & said he'd pass on my message 'up to her old nonsense again is she' he said

They just always need to create unnecessary drama these narcs. So tired of it.

Thanks 123

That sounds irritating as hell. I wish you could actually block people out of life. Just poof.

My DM has told my brother it's nothing big and we'll be fine. She's got no intention of saying sorry for everything she said. According to her not much happened anyway, just a small tiff and I refused to let her have DS this weekend. I'll get over it soon.

I'm to be honest. I was sad before but that's just her, again, telling people I'm being OTT and just having a moment. I'm resisting the urge to resend her what she sent me. Just in case she's forgotten how bad the messages were. We all have our breaking points.

Let her 'minimising' now commence Orchard! They are very very good at that. Oh no I didn't! No no no it was you all along! (that's kind of at the other end of the FOG fear obligation guilt part - the minimising which creates dreadful confusion)

....Still stuck in that "but it wasn't that bad and she fed/clothed/said she just cared" phase.....

You'll get there. Just because you weren't actually whipped every night doesn't make things OK.

Thanks I think if that's what she believes I might just leave it. It'll take her ages to realize it's even something I won't drop anyway, because that goes against what she's expected me to react like for years. And it's not like we live together. She'll want to see DS once she realizes I'm in no rush to see her/speak to her anytime soon. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. Just have to try not to cave. This thread is very helpful, so thanks for suggesting it on my other one I hope everyone else is ok this evening.

Must try not to dwell over it and have pointless imaginary arguments

Have them here! I'm sure we've all done it from time to time.

We all do it, I know

It's annoying though because I find it hard not to until I feel I've really nailed what I would say to her if I got the chance to have my say uninterrupted that'd be the day.

I just wish she knew how hard it was as an 8 year old kid, to be worried about money, my brother, my mum, because of things she'd offloaded onto me. I always excused it as "well she struggled, being a single mum is hard etc" but actually, I'm a parent now and as long as I had one other person to talk to, even if it was just on MN, I wouldm if it spared DS that sort of burden. Im sure she didn't quite realize how much I'd internalize that and worry about her worries but it's still crap. And she had good friends to talk to. And yet when I need to talk to her, about anything she'll briefly listen before turning it back on her issues. She often tells me to just get over things/ignore it/grow thicker skin if I do tell her something's happened etc. So it's not like it's even a two way street. And then she wonders why I bottled things up so badly growing up and why I don't confide in her as an adult??

Ok, self indulgent rant over

I feel like her reaction to that tiny stand I took for myself has suddenly had me retracing my entire life, looking at it all differently and making a lot of connections. Like I've noticed the elephant in the room/relationship. It's quite a shock actually.

"In the evenings I set it to automatically go on silent from 10pm to 6am"

That's genius - i had no idea that was possible, going to investigate my phone now.

Oo that's a thing? Is it dependant on the handset?

I often forget to turn the volume back on in the morning then miss calls/texts...

Orchard i have a lot of relationships like that, well i did because I put up with them i think.

the worst was with a FW who would simply say 'you're boring'.

the narc bioM would say that i would make her ill if i told her things that i was worrying about and i believe she was. She had the highest of standards for us all, but couldn't cope with any emotional fallout of anything and would blame me for being 'over-sensitive' or worrying her. I felt wholely and utterly responsible for her mental well-being, knowing that if i went against her in any way she would fall apart.

When i finally decided i couldn't take any more, she did have a nervous breakdown (whatever that is), and I was blamed by the rest of the family for being so awful to my own mother? Never ever ever has she been anything but adoring and lovely and supportive to me of course surprising anyone at all talks to me really.