"But we took you to stately homes!!!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's December 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
October 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Hi, it's moved in a lot here and warm thoughts to everyone.

In answer to qs.

No I didn't get his dressing gown for ds :( I wish I had.

I can't be her carer, I'm on a knife edge myself. I need help.

Gp said she'd ask psychological services to ring. But nothing. That was my call for help :(

Hello Misc its good to hear from you.

You could possibly still get his dressing gown do you think ?

You will find that services are extremely thin on the ground and need a followup.. Its no reflection of your need to have them. This is the one thing you need to keep doing. Call your doctors, they will do all the chasing for you.

In answer to the how do we get over it theme here. It was many years ago for me, and psychologically the moving away from hit me like a death. I grieved, badly at first then obviously it calmed, and got less frequent. I found that i wouldstruggle if i had anything to drink at all it would worsen so i kept away from alcohol. During that time I got angry at her also, especially when things were extremely tough for me through all this with critically ill DC. but it was ultimately very healing and soothing as grieving is, just being with the sadness and letting go.

My issue is how does one ever actually have a convo or deal with bumping into them? and i do still every now and then have moments that sneak up and bite me, if there is potential for contact, as i simply don't know how to be around them at all, but i know it won't ever be like it was, but always 'messy'! definitely

chiggers Totally agree about learning how not to be a parent. Just do the polar opposite! Apart from the Rocky tune, your other song choices are lost on me I'm afraid And I consider myself a Rock bird LOL......

sugar sorry can't offer any suggestions here as I never bump into them as I live abroad.

Just a quick sign on and Good Morning from this end, anyhow. My round,

misc agreed, chase them up. You really should be a high-priority case but as others have said, you do need to chase and chase :(

stc I used to drink an unhealthy amount. Cutting it back so that it's 1 small glass (or one beer) every 3 - 4 nights has really helped overall, somehow. Now I look back and realise how unhealthy it was.

ha! Chimi my plan exactly i think its the way to go...

Used to enjoy a drink, quite a lot sometimes when i fancied it, as i dont always, but i would feel a bit overwhelmed with the emotion drinking at all around that time. Now... just nice to have a glass here and there. Still enjoy a few, but there's none of the emo's going on any more (not for years). I think alcohol very best avoided when such heavy stuff going on, mixes things a lot! I found. my nerves around social situations used to make it very easy for me to drink hard and fast (very young and very unhealthy i'm sure!) but DC put paid to that!

yeas same here, it took a while to cut down but it definitely started when getting preg. Plus husband's nagging because he's boringly abstemious hehe and he wasn't happy with it. But it ain't good for the children and now I'm realising how bad it was for me too! reading the Dry Jan thread sometimes and nodding in recognition =)

it used to numb the hurt (god, why the hell can't I just shed it like chiggers and chimi said, even after all this therapy!). But overall, feel so much better with only a small bit now and then. Odd how it works. Not giving it up compeltely though, it's one of life's lovely little civilized touches.

Good Morning Ladies.

Misc , If you can't bring yourself to do much, please come on here and talk. Many of us are happy to listen to you pour your heart out.

When we lose someone we love and cherish, every heartbeat hurts like nothing else. Initially, it's so painful, both emotionally and physically. Sometimes we may wonder how we'll be able to carry on and may just want to end it all to escape the physical and emotional pain. Time may not dampen the pain, but it can give us space to figure out how to deal with it.

You're dealing with your loss slowly, but you may not realise it. Two things show that you're dealing with it. You're looking after your DS, and you're also coming on here to talk. If you weren't dealing with your loss in any way/shape/form, then you'd not be doing any of this. It'll take time to build yourself back up again, and it will be hard at first, but you CAN do it. You just gotta have faith in your ability to do it. You have it there in you, but because of your circumstances, you probably don't realise it. I'm sure the rest of us on here will help you through this as and when you need someone to chat to.

Absolutely Chiggers to Misc (((tight hugs))) from me too.

I think its the difference Meerka between knowing if its healthy, as we know alcohol has good heart effects too, and really actually does help with the stress like you said ...'numb the hurt' and if it counters the stress its benefitting the heart in that sense, only in the right quantities tho.

Its good if we can use 'it', rather than 'it' use us. A couple of people reasonably close to home have recently had life threatening heart probs, both big drinkers, but it is all the other stuff too. I think knowing whats alright to do rather than guessing at it, eases the stress of managing drink moderation too.

I just found out about the holiday heart syndrome. That our body builds tolerances of course, to alchohol, to anything, so its more dangerous to our system to abstain and suddenly celebrate with a binge at the end of Jnauary for instance! Many heart attacks from holiday drinking. It would have bee far better to just have a glass a few evenings a week, as that can be beneficial.. oh yes, and so can chocolate, so instead of alchohol, have some dark chocolate (no not milk, or all the other fatty stuffs put into chocolate, as thats fat) instead.

oh interesting, I hadn't heard of holiday drinking. You can see it can't you .... have nothing, go mad, bang, problems. MMmmm I do like the idea of dark choc being a substitute tho =) (used to be completely indifferent to choc, post preg I like it a lot!)

misc thinking of you too. And wishing you luck. You are very brave especially with grasping the nettle of separating formally.

They disinherited me. Not even an executor of their wills. She said it was because h could try and get their money as still married, but she'd have been gagging for an excuse to hurt me and even better, push me even further away from my dad, all with the veneer of respectability.

It's stupid cos money isn't the issue (there won't be any anyway, squandered opportunities even before the care she will need), but fuck, it hurts.

My friend thinks my mother has paranoid schizophrenia. The paranoid delusions definitely.

Meerka I think we may have a bit more in common than we though. I was a borderline alcoholic. Got through at least 2 bottles of wine a day to cope with the stress of everyday life. Then it hit me that I could drink as much as I wanted, to escape the stress, but my problems would still be there at the end of the day. I realised that I had a choice: either I ran away and drank myself into oblivion or I quit/cut down drinking, faced my problems head on and resolved them. Trying to resolve issues while under the influence just meant that there wasn't just the issues to contend with, but possible hangovers as well.

I went cold turkey with the booze and fags (I'm an ex-smoker of 6yrs and running) at the same time, and TBH it was the 2 best decisions I made at the time. It was hard getting off the drink and I wasn't in the right frame of mind to stop, but I imagined myself lying in hospital looking incredibly jaundiced and like an extra from the Simpsons It was the 2 best decisions I ever made. If I was born with incredible stubbornness and am very head-strong, so I guess that helped a lot. I'm now able to have the odd glass of wine without needing to pile the whole lot down me. I tend to have one glass out of a bottle and the left over wine sits in the fridge for months. In the last 3yrs, I've had 2 glasses of booze, so I think I'm doing alright so far.

Sugar After I cut right down on the booze, I came across an article that said about abstaining from booze for long periods then going on a major binge could be potentially lethal for the heart. I think (IIRC) it could be a shock to the heart to go from normal to flooded with alcohol. I can't be totally sure, but I think the point of it was along those lines or something. I read it years ago and have been revising hard, so obviously I'm not overly confident on remembering that particular article. It's pretty much common sense, if you think about it. If an alcoholic was to stop drinking suddenly, their body would go into shock and they could either suffer major adverse effects or even die, so it stands to reason that the same could possibly happen in reverse.

I've got a song here called 'Letting Go' by Belfast composer Roy Todd. He seems to be able to capture moods and translate them into music.

Here it is Hopefully the link will work. Enjoy

chiggers ! I was on a bottle of wine a day. It really was too much for me, since my physical health isn't particularly good. I do really like the taste of reasonable wine or beer a lot and somehow the quantity crept up. Much better off with one unit or so every 3-4 days.

Seriously impressed you managed to give up both booze and fags stone-dead. Must have been hard!

Nice music =)

sounds a lot doesn't it Meerka a bottle a day, but i know quite a few who get through a bottle every evening. I've always been a lightweight when it comes to drink, would always feel too ill to manage doing that every night! not that i ever tried, but such an easy habit to get into i would imagine.

I think i have in built wiring that protects me a bit from anythig too stimulating, as i think i'm as about stimulated as i can handle without any extras! Read a very interesting article and research into that with significant findings.

sending you peaceful sleep vibes misc and calm now after everything.

It's unnervingly easy to get through that much and I was fairly strict about not starting before 6pm! It was a bad idea just anyway, but with ME/chrnic Fatigue it was really stupid. With moving ot the NL I gained a whole new perspective on the English drinking culture too, which helped.

Hope everyone is doing okay this morning. misc, thinking of you

I'm going out today. First time since my wonderful dad died. Going to a play date with ds, we invited his new best friend at school, and his mummy. So not only out but to meet someone I don't know. Brave or stupid?

I have just realised that ds best friend from nursery will be at the same place, so that could be awkward - how should I navigate that, given the new best friend from school is super keen to go to this place so can't change venue?

Arghhh, I know it shouldn't be a big deal but am so worried and so proud ds has managed to make a new friend. I couldn't make friends growing up, I offen didn't have clothes that fit, except school uniform. And she wouldn't let anyone come to our house, even the next door neighbors child my age :( I wasn't able to accept play dates as my mother refused to learn to drive and my dad was often abroad or working late. And I was painfully shy. Would cry at the drop of a hat as I was so scared and anxious all the time.

I was the outcast, the bullied and the laughed at. I feel out of my depth trying to make sure ds is not that child. And it's so hard for me to join in and pretend to be normal with the other parents, as that's how this school seems to work - invites only happen if you're on the approved list. My dad helped with that though. When I was in hosp in oct/ November, my dad did all the school gates stuff, schmoozed with the best of them. And he's so lovely, such a gentlemanly gentleman, warm and gentle and funny... Everyone loved him and combined with the story of 'wonderful grandpa takes over whilst mum is in hosp', he got loads of play dates and phone numbers. So I'm trying to pick up what he started.

Oh god it hurts, I'm crying again. How the hell am I going to be able to do this?

Hello all,

Didn't get on here yesterday. I woke up incredibly anxious, not really focussed on anything in particular but just with that churning feeling in my belly IYKWIM? It took me ages to get to sleep on Tuesday night as well. Really struggled at work yesterday and felt constantly near tears, which is really unlike me.

Spoke to my DS in the evening on the phone (he still lives in the city where he grew up) and he is having some MH problems at the moment, it sounds weird but it actually made me feel better focussing on his problems and supporting him instead of worrying about my own!!

In the past I have got myself wound up when he is having problems with something and I've ended up telling him what to do to solve his problems, which he then usually doesn't take my advice, which winds me up even more But over the last few months I've tried to step back and just listen to him and validate his feelings and ask him what he thinks he should do, and if he asks me what I think then I'll come up with several options.

I also make sure now I tell him that it's okay to feel sad, or angry, or depressed. I wish I had done this more when he was little. I didn't realise how much I was parenting like my mum did to me. I was always told "Don't be silly!" whenever I said I felt down about something. Negative feelings were not allowed. (Dsis was always told, "You're so over-sensitive!" when she expressed any sadness or anger.)

misc I am sorry I don't know your full situation beyond your recent loss, but I am thinking of you and your DS. Please do hassle the doctors about the referral - unfortunately it seems to be the case with the NHS these days that unless you keep chasing, nothing gets done.

You mentioned you have carers come in to help you - do you get any funding from local authority for this or are you paying everything privately? If there are things you are struggling with such as shopping or domestic, it can be possible to get funding for this from the PCT even if you are paying privately for your personal care. Also I'm not sure how old your DS is but if he helps at all with your care - even if it's just helping you put your shoes on, fetching you drinks or popping to the corner shop on his own to fetch some milk - he may qualify for support from your local Young Carers project. (Apologies if you already know all this - last year I worked in a Care company and I found that quite often people were left totally unaware of the help they could get - Social Services seem to operate on a basis of "If people really need help, they'll ask" whereas the reality is that if you don't know you can get help, you won't know to ask for it!!)

misc I crossposted with you (that's what happens when I sit and dither over posting!)

I am glad you have made a date to go out - I think that's good for you and for your DS. I know how hard it is to keep going after such a tremendous loss, but it IS good for you to have something else to think about, and it is okay for you to feel some happiness and enjoyment for a few hours, in the midst of your grieving.

Does your DS not see his nursery friend any more? was there a falling out?

I hope your playdate goes well and don't be afraid of saying to the mum "I lost my dad two weeks ago so I am sorry if I'm a bit wobbly" - I am sure she will understand.

Thanks. I'm stupidly anxious about it. Counting the hours til I have to get ready.

The problem with the nursery best friend is that ds ADORES him, we still see him though I've stopped arranging proper playdates at the mo, they go to this same place a lot and arrange so they can meet there with their nannies taking them. He played with him on Tuesday actually.

But ds is rather binary in his friendships, and I'm worried he will leave either new best friend or nursery best friend out. Or say something upsetting like 'you're not my best friend anymore' or 'you're only my best friend at school' or 'I like you but I LOVE x'... He talks about that kind of stuff lots at home.

And the other thing is I don't think they play in the same way, so what do I do if they don't all play together nicely? In that situation, should I tell ds he must look after his guest and play things he likes?

Nursery friend and ds play a lot of imaginary make believe stuff together, or put on shows. And school friend doesn't enjoy that at all as far as I can gather. They play variations of games like 'what's the time mr wolf' except they make up their own rules and games, and just run around making faces at each other. My feeling is DS is more comfortable playing in the way him & nursery friend do, but he is willing to play whatever school friend likes as he's so pleased to be friends with him - maybe I'm wrong though, this is one reason I wanted to go today, to see what they get up to! Ds is rubbish at telling me what he does, so unless I get to observe, I don't have a clue!

chiggers Listened to the track you linked. Very relaxing, like the sort of thing you hear on a relaxation CD, or meditation even

Misc I hope it goes well at the play date. I'm sure it will and your son will enjoy it too, hopefully. I know what it's like to feel low on confidence and having to get out of my comfort zone, for the sake of my daughter so she can socialize.
I would just, sort of, walk into these play groups, or whatever, and just smile and say Hello to as many people as I could. That was actually my first goal, then I would just take things from there. If conversations started by chance, I would just go with the flow and didn't put pressure on myself to be this great conversationalist or highly entertaining individual! lol

Having moved from the UK to Holland nearly 2yrs ago, not knowing a soul, I've just had to keep putting myself into situations where adult contact will happen and that does entail stepping out of my comfort zone but Ii keep plugging away as it's a never ending process really. The expat circle can be quite transient so people come and go. Not that I'm avoiding making contact with Dutch people but, as I don't work and we live in a flat at the mo, it's a bit harder with the Dutchies! Plus I don't speak the language.....yet.

My God the drinking culture is sooo different here. It's the carnival coming up, which is awesomely good fun, and basically a 4 day piss up! But, just like King's Day ( formerly Queen's Day ), everybody drinks lager on the streets and you never see a spot of bother. That would NEVER happen back home. It'd be carnage!

just wanted to quickly send a cheery to Misc

You are allowed to be quiet! You don't have to schmoooz, that was your DF, its not you, try not to put pressure on yourself.. hard I know! easier said an'all that, but she might be someone that will enjoying chitter chatterig away without much input from you!!

There's nnothign to be done with the other BF situation, except be friendly to show theres nothing weird going on, they can draw their own conclusions, people usually do! nothing we can do about that.

Are you prepared for questions and how you will manage them, in brief if necessary. I reallly hope you can enjoy watching your DS being out with a BF, there will probably be many, and as hard as is it to not angst, you will probably anyway, its keeping it in check really? Make the most of being out and having a break .

chimi! whereabouts in the NL are you? Must be south-ish? yay, fellow expat! Though we're of the other variety and tend to hunker down during carnival heh

Hope you survived today, misc

ahem sorry, maybe you'd rather not say, that was a bit rude of me

Hey Meerka, We live in Eindhoven. How come you guessed South? Do they not have carnivals elsewhere? Actually I even luv the music and the whole thing really, teehee. We're very central so the atmosphere's terrific....

No not rude at all LOL!! I'm really not paranoid about leaving smatterings of details about me, wherever I post on here. It's not like I'm on the run from anyone

Are you here cos you married a Dutchie? See, you gave me the power of the Emoticons and I'm not afraid to use it.........X

Well I did it and survived. I thought it would Help ds feel happier and more confident at school with friends, as well as just having a really nice time... But this morning was awful.

He cried himself into a right state saying 'I don't want to go to school' and wouldn't say anything else :( I don't understand what happened? He didn't say 'I want mummy' which would have been more normal as he says that a lot. But just 'I don't want to go to school' repeated a hundred times :(

The only thing that was from yesterday was that him & school friend didn't play very well together, as the friend just wanted to play on his own with all the fun stuff he hadn't played with before, and ds tried to be ok with it but was grumpy underneath. The mum & me fixed up another play date and agreed they just need more time to work out how to play together outside the school environment. So, no biggie, I thought. Doesn't equate to this hysteria this morning... Never done it before. Didn't help that I have a weaker helped today, so she didn't handle it well and had to end up carrying him out of the house still screaming :(

Ps until that just happened, I was feeling very pleased it went so well. Ds nursery friend wasn't there which helped make it simple, sonog navigating a tricky dynamic or having to intervene lots. The other mum was really nice and chatted lots so it was easier for me than trying to keep conversation going. I did shed a tear or two when she mentioned my dad, but she seemed ok about that. Glad I didn't wear mascara though. Didn't break down completely but kept forgetting what I was saying for a while after, though I did drink too much coffee so that didn't help either! I hope I didn't seem like a loon. And big triumph that she wanted to do it again next week! He has Two play dates next week, I'll just do one though, as the other one is a nanny coming so it makes sense ds nanny would do it. Not feeling so guilty about ds and supporting him making friends as at least hes had play dates for two weeks, this and next... I remember how awful my childhood was and its hard to get a sense of how much better ds life is, considering mine was awful yet had both parents together, lived in a big house, had all the foundations right in theory. But the emotional abuse destroyed my childhood, and left me struggling to get over the damage caused the rest of my life. I remember in my early 20s, I got high (ahem), and realised that the cold knot in my stomach disappeared for the first time I could remember, and I realised that feeling was fear. I had never named it as I understood fear is what people feel occasionally, in response to specific events... And that feeling I had grown up with and never went away so I thought it was just how everyone felt all the time. Abject terror every day. It was one of those defining moments when I began to realise how wrong my childhood had been.

I grew up determined I would never ever be the same, but with my illness and disability, ds father absent at best, and now this grief of losing the only other family he had... he's had a really tough childhood so far and I hate that no matter how much I try I can't be the mother I want to be, or give ds the life he deserves :( I was so content when ds was little as I had been so scared is somehow turn into Her when ds was born, and I felt like it came so easy to me, loving ds. Reading attachment theory stuff made a lot of sense, and I felt like I kind of 'got ahead' from the first time I met ds, as I felt this overwhelmed rush of love, and knew that my mother was always detached and cold since I was born. So just by loving him and cuddling him and adoring every moment with him I had stopped history repeating itself.

But I feel like I failed anyway, even though I tried so hard to be worlds apart from my mother, I am not creating the safety and security ds needs so badly.