"But we took you to stately homes!!!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's December 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
October 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Its funny in a way, she's wrote this big post "aibu about my daughters wedding?" and everyone has said, yeah you are so then she's posted "well actually theres more to it, she's done this and this in the past" and everyone has still gone, no yabu so she's dragged up even more unrelated crap just so they'll agree how awful I am and how she's justified, cleverly leaving out any bits where she's acted like a dick obviously...
For example, in one bit she's phrased it as "I called to voice some concerns and my awful bitch daughter told me not to come to the wedding" - what she means is "my daughter was up at midnight waiting for the ooh doctor as her 1 year old wouldn't stop screaming, later diagnosed with an inner ear infection, and I called screaming obscenities about why my dog wasn't an invited guest as I class her as my third baby and how I didn't want a hog roast as I love animals and couldn't bear to see one cooked despite the fact I'm not vegetarian and it isn't the only food option so she reasonably asked if we could discuss this at a later date as she was busy right at that minute but I kept goading all night and the next day including saying my daughters wedding was a sham and my grandsons were bastards until she told me if I felt that way then perhaps it would be best if I didn't attend"...bit different isn't it?!

There's another thread I've commented on too, a posters 16 year old had sex and the sister told the poster who's asking if/what she should say to her 16 year old now she knows, all the other posters are saying to say nothing because she's legal, that its not the ops business and its the 16 year olds private life or to gently inquire if she has adequate protection in place
I was amazed that this seems to be the consensus, my own mother on finding out id slept with my boyfriend all consensual and as lovely as those things get, was to tell me I was "damaged goods"/throw me out for a few weeks/insist I never saw the boy again/ still brings it up at every opportunity as an example of my "deceit"...

Sorry I'm spamming, I'll go off this thread now, just my heads so full its nice to get some out especially in company of people I know will understand

That's what the thread's for. I'd be gnashing my teeth and biting the pillow in your shoes.

misc about the doctor. It might be an idea to write out how you are feeling and then, what you think will happen if you don't get help.

Be very honest.

If, well, you're at the end of your tether and afraid you'll do something permanent - say so. If you are afraid that your boy will go off the rails - say so. If you are afraid that you will no longer be able to look after him well - say so and beg for help. You need mroe than antidepressants right now, you need practical help (though maybe anti-depressants will help).

By being specific of what you think might happen, that will give the doctor a fuller picture.

I hope they listen.

birds ... might it be possible that you send yoru ciriticisms to your mother because you think she might listen, and because you have more chance of getting through to her?

Santa step away from Gransnet love - just stop looking for ways to let her hurt you.

You know the real truth, that is enough

Misc
In bereavement it is completely normal to wonder/worry whether you will make it through a phone call! or any face to face contact also. What, to my mind, of concern was the level of anxiety you felt facing the school, but you seemed to have managed that well enough, and its no surprise to them that you would struggle to speak when having to talk about it.
I also wonder whether your DS is actually better off in school? Only because, apart from his initial reaction, you haven't said he is struggling at all (but I might have missed that bit, sorry and ignore if so).

You need time for you to be alone and fall apart a bit, and he needs normality to just carry him through to realise everything will be ok.

Of course you need to know everything will be ok too, and it will, as each day passes and days turn into weeks the shock and upset of this will settle and calm.

misc love, they won't put you in a mental hospital unless you a) request it, or b) are a danger to yourself or your son. I don't think that either are true, so I reckon you can stop worrying about that.
They'd have to be pretty hard hearted and shit to tell you it's not their concern. Realistically, ADs are a possibility, but I take your point about the time lag. Counselling is also likely, but even longer wait on NHS.
I agree with writing down what you want to say, and don't be embarrassed to cry, to stammer, to struggle. Can you open by saying you're finding talking very hard, so could they please be patient? Just to reassure yourself that you'll get through the convo? IME (not of bereavement, but of talking to various docs about depression and PND), GPs are great at understanding. Massive hugs, lovely.

santa she's rewriting history to make herself look good? Quelle surprise. Totally normal, and you have my sympathy, my mother does just that. You know, you really do know that what you experienced and experience is real, so be true to yourself, and try to distance yourself mentally from her. Otherwise she wins. We don't want that, do we?

Sorry, not had Internet for a few days. Many thanks for the kind words about my nan.

My thoughts are with you misc- definitely second what others have said about writing down what you want to say and also getting support for yourself. So important to look after ourselves but think we're good at saying it to others but not taking our own advice.

I spoke to my grandad who was understandably distraught but doing ok. My auntie said he won't go upstairs into bedroom so has been sleepy no on the armchair. I so hope my family can be dignified and respectful at the funeral- worry about that is preventing me from grieving properly for my lovely nan.

worry all you can do is be respectful yourself. If other bastards choose to act differently that's their stupidity choice.
I hope your grandad feels stronger soon.

Tonight is a bad night.

Spoke to my mum on the phone. Finances stuff. Fuck fuck fuck.

I hurt so much.

misc do you want to tell us about it? You poor love. What can you do to take care of yourself? What do you like doing that's possible to do today? Self-care is really important, lovely. I can send a virtual and a hug.

GIVE ME STRENGTH!!!

I know it, I know its hopeless, useless having any kind of contact, I know they hate me, I know they will create massive drama around anything I say, always perceiving it in the same way, someone tell me straight to stay away! please!

I had this horrible overwhelming urge to see them today?! I was having a serious word with myself trying to argue why this was ridiculous and would lead to nowhere but more grief and massive nastiness.

Why the hell!?? after all this time, I am still arguing with myself please tell me how foolhardy a step this would be!!! I can never go back to all that, hwat am I thinking!

Misc ((((Hugs)))) and from me too and a big soft blanket to wrap yourself in and comfort you to shut the world out for a bit.

Is it the longing for comfort and to be nurtured, mothered, sct? Or a place where you can be yourself and just laugh and joke?

if there's something stressful happened or something to make you feel a bit alone, maybe that's why you're feeling such longing now.

But yes, you might long for comfortable belonging and chatter but it's not gonig to happen ... and you do know that.

Ring a friend to chatter, or write down a list of what your family are really like, the thigns they've done. Re-read that list. Remember how you felt when you were in contact. Isn't that what you'd get again, realistically?

failing all that ... < politely slaps sct with a wet fish> don't do it!

sugar I'm new on this thread (although lurked for a while) so I don't know if anything I'm going to say will help but I didn't want you unanswered til someone who knows better checks this thread - is there any reason the feeling to see them is so strong today? Can you go and do something physical to get out those feelings - might be no help but I find going for a walk/swim helps me "thrash it out" a bit iykwim? Or make a list of pros and cons of going? When cons clearly win then you might feel at least you rationd it out properly rather than it being a nagging feeling?
Take care either way, its shitty I know (hug)

hahah!!! thats wonderful Meerka the polite slap with a wet fish is very refreshing thank yous I will have to remember that one.

Its a proximity thing. I was in the area and was a) worried that i would walk round the corner straight into them, b) then intrigued about how that would go and thinking well it would be nice to have some family and seemed to start talking myself into hoping i would bump into them and that things would be different???? Its been very useful writing it down though and having your helpful responses because i think i just had to face the reality again that it actually wouldn't be different, disappointing as that is, they do still hate me (regardless of feigned 'love' and 'oh my darling' type surprise/pleasure?!) its not real, it is the feeling of belonging that I thought i'd let go of a long time since, that i think just snuck up on my from behind and caught me off-guard.

Its not real, its not real, its not real....

Sugar I get that sometimes too . But the rational side of me knows I'll just get a whole raging tirade from her. I try to distract myself and remind myself how peaceful life is without her and remember my therapist's words: "you can NEVER have the relationship you crave with her" and it passes after a bit.

its weird GTB but I don't crave being with her, or him. He's an incessant liar and victim, and she hates me and filters everything I do through that lens, so I know that, and its fine. its what they do, but I had this thin that i could deal with it, or it would be different, oh well [sigh]

having no family from having had such a big family is like losing an arm, and sometime going to grab something forgetting (again) its not there!

Is that a craving.. i dunno, but it takes some mighty changes, like anyone on here who's done it will attest to. BIG!

sugar I get it. But Meerka is right. Stay away. For your own mental health, your own happiness, your own life. They won't change (otherwise they'd have changed by now), and they will hurt you again.

I'm sad that my mother won't be there for DDs first birthday on Sunday - but it's because I'm projecting, that if I were her, I'd be devastated not to be there. She won't be devastated. She won't care, because she's shown that she dislikes DD. And I want DD to have a lovely day, which won't happen if my mother is there. So I have to shake out the sadness and put it to rest as its not helping me. Easier said than done! Where's that wet fish again?

How can you not like a 1 year old ... :(

I know some people are not suited to be parents. And others are just plain screwed up and nasty.

But a 1 year old. So sad if someone cannot truly feel joy for them.

If I were her, I'd be devastated not to be there I totally get that. I did that kind of projecting too when DM fucked off across the world without so much as a by-your-leave - how could she do that? Never see us again? How could she bear that?

oh you lovely lovely ones! wet fish, fecking white shark's! and such strong words to pull me out of it its true.

I think I had a combo double whammy thing going on because I had spoken to my older sister, who I think is the only one that everyone speaks to. She is Narc M's confidante, but has her respect as she was sent to the best education and got accolades and top job. She manages to have some kind of hold over them, and never ever gets into the crap with them,, but i know used to get a beating for being upset when younger by father.

and i had a rare conversation with her last night and she'd hosted christmas day with them all. Then this morning bizarrely i had to travel for work to the town they had moved to! and it didnt hit me till my meeting was over and thats when i found myself walking around with all this stuff. Its the dichotomy of knowing they are all 'having a good time'??? Are they? If they are its just me. I haven't done this rubbish for ages, i haven't wobbled like this for ages over them. I know what theyre like, and they do treat people differently, triangulation is it?

right, thats enough circling

i've thought that Humpty about the not liking them, and i can't get my head round it at all! I mean I remember thinking it over certain issues in the past that it almost seemed that way, but still cant accept that can be possible. its too much the stuff of murderers and psycopaths that are not in our lives but in movies and prisons, not walking and talking around us.