"But we took you to stately homes!!!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's December 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
October 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

misc ... well done.

Expect him to be very clingy. then suddenly remote. Children react differently. All you can do is be there to let him talk to you and for you to talk sometimes about him.

You have been through a storm. whatever you do to look after yourself and be kind to yourself, do it tonight when he is alseep.

keep going, keep going and keep remembering that love is what pulls the little ones through. They sense it. .

Writing it down so I don't forget it. Already I'm paraphrasing :( crap.

Dear God,
Thank you very much for our Christmas presents and thank you for bringing Father Christmas.

Please, I don't know if you know Gaga but he's in heaven now where you are. Please take care of Gaga because he's dead now. And thank you for all our presents, Amen.

I don't really know how to react to that really. We don't do prayers much at all, probably twice ever before.

I'm numb again.

I think it's just his little way of dealing with things. I think you're doing great, even if it feels anything but. Be there for him and, like Meerka says, expect different reactions. But you love him and he knows that, ultimately it'll be OK.
Can this maybe start to be a catalyst for change? Once the funeral is done, can you keep away from your mother for good. I think the suggestion of building a mental wall around yourself might help for the funeral.

My lovely, sweet nan died yesterday. Although she had been diagnosed with dementia in the past yr and physically was quite frail, it was a real shock. I'm already dreading the funeral though- it's my mums mum who isn't apeaking to my grandad or her sister or brother at the moment. i just know my mum will 'kick off' at the funeral, blame my grandad for making my nans life miserable etc, telling him she wished he'd died first.

Also I'm NC with my mum at the moment and don't know how to play it at the funeral- I feel for her, how so very sad she must be so that makes me want to go up and give her a hug but then I worry that she'll see that as sign that things are better between us. But I think not approaching her will seem so very cold and heartless. Not sure what to do really and dreading the atmosphere between all the family members who aren't talking to each other. I so hope they can put that aside for 1 day out of respect for my nan but knowing my family (esp my mum) I don't think they can.

Worryworker

My sincere condolences to you and your own family re your Nan .

If in doubt do nothing at the moment. Her funeral may not take place for a couple of weeks yet and today anyway your main preoccupation should be you. You need time and space to grieve. Be kind to yourself, grief is a marathon and not a sprint. Have you spoken to your Grandad to date?.

It may be that your mother will remain quiet at the funeral. I hope so because if she does not she will look extremely stupid. Perhaps a discrete word with the funeral directors may help here if your mother does attend, they have likely seen not too dissimilar before now.

You are not alone. I also dread my FILs soon to take place funeral for not too dissimilar reasons. Narcissistic BIL has not talked to us for some years and DH and I will have to sit in the funeral car with him!. I sincerely hope he behaves himself, I will spend a lot of time staring out of the window. The whole thing really is a complete exercise in hypocrisy (and no MIL he was not a wonderful man) and if I did not have to attend (am only going solely because of DH), I certainly would not do so.

Funny Atilla, your H doesn't 'have' to sit anywhere he doesn't want to.

If he wants to travel separately, he can. Seriously.

Give it some thought.

hi - i'm in sinai and have only just got my wifi at home working so have tried to read and catch up and have sent a few pms because my poor little mind (new anti migraine meds make it even more foggy than usual) wouldn't remember if i tried to read everything then respond. just saying hello really and sending peace.

hope everyone is coping ok. i must admit distance always helps me with the family shit. the further away the better.

hope january isn't being too harsh, if it's any consolation it is unusually bloody cold here.

Hi

misc and worryworker - I am really so sorry for your father and nan passing away and my thoughts are with all of you on this board.

I have been really stupid. About 6 weeks ago I posted a letter to my NM outlining some of the abuses etc. Anyway , I am glad that I did do that.
What I feel an absolute fool about is that I then messaged her and my enabling SF about a month afterwards to see if she had got it!
This, after being very, very LC for over 6 years!
Why did I do this? I feel so bloody stupid and weak.

I don't know why I sent the messages to ask if she had got it. I was feeling low and angry again about everything. It always seems to happen around Christmas time.

They did not reply to my message. Now this makes me feel like such an idiot. Why oh why did I message them to ask them if she got the letter?

I am still glad that I did send the letter originally though but I just should never have followed it up asking if she had got it.

What I have now done , so I am never tempted again to message in anger , is that I have taken them completely off my contacts list so I will not be able to message again. I really , really should have done this long ago.

My NM is the ignoring kind. Has not tried to make amends in anyway and dropped me like a hot potato 6 years ago when I went very , very LC.

I have also been watching Narcissm survivor on YouTube which has helped a bit as well as this board.

Thank you for listening

Sympathies insul. Mine is the engulfing kind but once you stand up to her she drops you like hot coals in revenge and will now ignore me pointedly until the day she dies. Quite a headfuck.

worry huge condolences, I'm sorry for your loss. How sad.

misc I'm so sorry for your loss, sounds like you are being amazing for your DS.

Stupid ipad posted too soon.

insul don't beat yourself up. It's done now, focus on caring for you.

Attila agree with Hissy - travel separately if it helps you cope. You are allowed to do what you and DH need to do. Hugs.

Felt really really awful today. The strength I was using to hide it from DS was all that was keeping me going.

Sorry to keep posting. It's a lifeline at the moment.

misc post away. I'm here to listen, as often as you need. You're doing so very very well in awful circumstances, and you are going to get through this. One minute at a time, lovely. Will prob be up with DD in the night, so will check in then.

Do you have any RL support?

I think its now 'downtime' for you Misc . like yousay, the energy it took to hold it all together for your DS was holding it all together for you.

Its such a very tough time to go through, but he will be fine, absolutely fine, he really will. Do hang onto that fact.

He asked you loads, so you don't have to worry about the opposite, i.e. imparting information like this and silence! He's been clear about what he wants to know from you, obviously had a shock, but then still asks you. He trusts you, and doesn't care what he asks, thats the best you can ask for from your DC. He's hiding nothing and just blarts it out.

Please don't feel sorry for posting, although I feel like that a lot too, but it doesn't seem right when I hear someone else saying it, I don't think you have to be sorry for anything.

You will get through this too. The moment that you were terrified has happened and you and he have survived and been very close. Its ok to be down, grieve, and also to have time for yourself so he can go off and do some things away from reminders of his loss so that he can see, and you both can see actually, that life bizarrely just carries on around you as normal.

Take care. did you feel CRUSE might be a useful support at the moment?

Thank you.

Can't really do speaking or telephones right now. Feels too much, all consuming, not in control of voice.

Still hoping someone from cruse will email me, but it's been over a week so I should give up I suppose.

Thought I would talk to my gp, but honestly, what can they do? And actually the process of getting to speak to a GP would defeat me.

DS not going to school tomorrow so I've got to phone the school. Not done it before as Ds only started in sept. Will the office tell the teacher exactly why? Or just that he's absent? Will they harass me and call it an unauthorized absence or something? Read some awful things in here about schools. Don't even know why time to phone? Before 9? Before 830? God it feels like a massive thing to do.

Misc

Clearly you are in a really bad way here and desperately need help. It is no shame to ask for help. You sound completely overwhelmed by everything and given what has happened recently that is not surprising. You are really in control of your own voice but you are running away with yourself here. I am wondering if you are now really struggling with post traumatic stress disorder and you really do need to talk to your GP urgently.

All of this feels like a massive thing to do but it really is not. One task at a time; baby steps. Nothing here is really insurmountable.

Do not give up on CRUSE; e-mail them again or even better phone them instead. If you do this, you will be able to speak to someone.

Misc - my son is at secondary school now so as you can imagine, I've had to call them re bouts of sickness quite a lot over the years. Re the school, the person that you speak to will make a note of his absence and that will be that. They will not harass you further. It will not be marked as an unauthorised absence particularly if you call them but you do need to talk to his school today. If he starts at 9am I would call around 8.30 and if no-one is there you can leave a message to say that he will be off today due to illness. Not all schools are bad by any means.

Keep posting here too.

I do think you need to ask for help too misc. You need that help for your own sake but also for your son's. Anything to support you is good, because then you can support your son too.

Thinking of you xx

misc massive hugs. You can do this. You can. It's bloody awful and hard, but you can.

It's not an unauthorised absence if you let the school know in advance. If you can't face ringing them, can you email the school, or text another parent and ask them to?

We're all here for you. I totally get not being ready to talk verbally, and that's fine, that's your choice. Can you email CRUSE again asking for a reply by email?

Thinking of you.

I am sorry to hear you are struggling this way Misc

I have cptsd, and i totally understand where you are coming from. I often need to have someone with me for the things I struggle with the most so that they can take the phone if needs be.

Left alone with it will probably cause you to struggle more, as when you have someone with you to help you will be able to realise what things are needing your attention/concern/worry and what not.

I am guessing that because school is new to you, its a big worry and fear-making for you. Its a simple one to notify call of absence, but to reassure yourself go on to their website where you will see what their procedure is.

My experience of schools has been taht they have fairly similar procedures but timings/method of notification have been different. Unauthorised absence would be child not arriving without any given reason, or application for child to be absent that has been refused authorisation (such as holiday requests out of term holiday time). Some require a phone call by certain time, or email during the day. One school needed notification before half 8 or they would call to ask where the child was, but that was because of age.

Phoning any of the helplines like CRUSE, or MIND will be familiar with trauma and bereavement and very used to their customers phoning in and struggling to control their voices, but i understand thats a scarey step to take when you are not familiar with it yet.

the teacher will not know the reason, but the office have to collate the attendance figures and account for them, this is not the teachers concern at all.

It might be worth speaking to the teacher/emailing the school to pass on this information, so that your DS can get understanding and support in school during this grieving time for him too, this will also give some context for absences and potential outbursts that might need supporting.

.. and its a lot easier for us to all give advice that to do the acting on it of course, especially with everything you have going on right now.

I did write a letter to my mother, I didn't send it, but it felt good to write everything down. I was surprised how long the list of unhappy things about my childhood was :(

Really the problem was my father, my mother's main fault was staying with him, but he is so far removed from normality that the idea of saying anything to him- even in an unsent letter- is laughable. So all criticisms go to her instead, as they always have done. I feel sorry for her, but then she chose to be with him, and occupy this role, so don't know how to feel really.

this is the trouble with staying in abusive relationships, that DC always blame the mother for staying and keeping them there. Its a particularly paradoxical situation for those of us who've experienced it both ways.

... but despite giving my mother sympathies for it in the early days [living with him], it didn't last, because she didn't sufffer it, we did, it was just futher grist to her mill to blame us for him. oh deep joy

I did phone the school this morning. Their website is rubbish and you're supposed to glean procedures and rules by osmosis I think. I was worried they'd have a stupid policy which would leave me trying to deal with nasty letters or phone calls, and clearly I'm not exactly coping or could shrug off general rubbishness. However I pressed redial from 8 til 845 and just got an answering machine or engaged tone, then finally a human who was a bit stiff but unbent when my voice cracked when I explained it wasn't illness was a death in the family, and didn't seem horrified when I couldn't say anything else, after trying and failing I gave up and sort of got out 'thanks' before ringing off.

Am keeping him off tomorrow too so will have to do it all again in the morning,

Then back to school wed, more time off next week as he'll be coming with me up north for the funeral (although he won't be going to the funeral itself). At this point I can't imagine getting through next week at all.

I also got someone to book me a phone appointment with my gp which is on Thursday. I don't know what to say or what they can do though. Very little I suspect... Can you help me get the most out of the time on the phone to her?

I guess I'm expecting:
A. Tell me grief isn't an illness & come back when i have a medical problem (that's what happened when I went after my sister died)

B. Anti-depressants as The Solution. Which will be like sticking an Elastoplast on an amputated limb, & also isn't it 10days after you start taking them when you can feel a lot worse, which will be just after the funeral. Not good timing. And not sure that's the answer, even if they

C. Sticking me in a mental hospital and Ds in foster care. Yes that's my fear, obviously. I know even on a budgetary level this wouldn't make sense, but am still scared. Why wouldn't something else cataclysmic happen? I know, I know...

So, whilst I'm on this tangent into mental health, someone mentioned PTSD? How does it fit with my situation and what's happening? Am interested to know more

Talked more w Ds tonight to explain about funerals and why we'll be going to stay up north end of next week.

Answering questions in the thoughtful matter of fact way he needs is harrowing. Endless games of playing dead are not exactly helping either.

Misc I'm sorry things are so difficult for you right now, good that you managed to let the school know as that seemed to be something causing you some anxiety

I've ordered some books, the ones recommend in.the op, I'm hoping there'll be here soon as right now I can't sleep - I keep having imaginary conversations/arguments where I really let rip and tell her how I really feel about everything (ending in a massive "fuck you and fuck off!") as usually its best to go quiet when she starts, not engage and wait til she's calmed down a bit but I'm sick if that now...she's giving it all the "woe is me" on the other site and yet I'm run into the ground atm, trying to look after 2 preschoolers, dp housebound with a possible dvt, run the house, plan a wedding and work. And try and lose weight. She's a fucker.
And she's talking all kinds of rubbish about Dps mum and dad (both now deceased) claiming that his dad was so ashamed that he'd said he wouldn't come to the wedding either when he was alive - no the guy needed oxygen to go upstairs, was doubly incontinent and hated crowds/new people but you make up whatever you want about dead people you had never even met if ignore fits your story better.

Sorry, I'm knackered and angry this morning

*it not ignore

Sorry