"But we took you to stately homes!!!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's December 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
October 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Hi, I just need to talk, If that's ok?
I'm more of a lurker here but I've seen the support given and I'm feeling a bit wobbly now.
I've been nc with my mother since July (she kicked off I wouldn't let her dog come to my wedding and that I was serving hog roast) but this morning my best friend emailed me a message my mother sent her - full of bile and lies a about me
I'm just so upset, why does she do this? I can't imagine ever trying to hurt my dc like this, I was by all standards a 'good kid' but she talks about me like I'm satan himself, I just feel so small and scared and sick again every time, it's like I'm back home under her roof rather than a grown women with a dp, kids, job etc

Ouch.

I hope your best friend knows better than to believe the lies?

Mothers still have a lot of power over us when they grow up, though in healthy relationships it becomes more a influence than a power. It's really easy to snap instantly back into Child mode (usually with a bit of irritatoin at the same time, but it's very hard to stop it happening!)

Why do they do this? Someone summed it up nicely a few weeks ago. Some people aren't very nice, and when they have children those children end up with parents who aren't very nice.

It's a really hard and difficult thing to think that our parents aren't very nice because ... they're our mum and dad. They know us, they brought us up, they had a lot of power over us. But it can be true; sometimes the people who we want to believe are loving and good just aren't.

I personally think that some people MUST have complete control and if they don't have that then anything is justified in their opinion. Somebody who is starting to escape their control - even worse. Everything must be done to bring them back under control and if that fails, then blacken their name. After all, they themselves are right and for anyone to disagree or refuse to do their bidding, they must be wrong and therefore bad.

I hope you can talk with your friend honestly. Also ... the worse news is, you might need to consider that she might be saying the same things to others :/

The good news is that you DID stand up to her. A lot of people are too scared to stand up to their parents. You did.

I would tell your friend not to forward you any more diatribes from your mother. That person's action has only really served to upset you further.

The most common mistake made by people who are initiating no contact is allowing third party communication to leak through to them. Stop people immediately if they begin telling you anything, and let them know you'll no longer hear anything about people with whom you are NC. If the person refuses to respect your wishes, you may opt to limit contact with them as well.

More Here: http:www.lightshouse.org/how-to-go-no-contact.html#ixzz3O86uN0CK

you can't imagine because you are not sick and twisted like she is thankfully. i found myself saying to someone the other day, god IMAGINE picking roles for your children from birth that have nothing to do with who they are but what function you need them to serve for your madness? we can't imagine.

you did the right thing back in july and here she serves more evidence of it. you can ignore it or you can forward the forward onto her with a message saying, never contact me or my family or friends again. up to you.

but yeah, it still hurts doesn't it?

small scared and sick is a part of us. it was very scary being small with people like this in total power in our lives x

i agree ask your friend no more if that is better for you but in this instance i think your friend was showing you loyalty and was probably totally shocked at your mother's audacity and madness at sending that to her, your friend. do you think it likely your mother even would contact her again?

Your mother wants to draw you back into her own web of dysfunction so ANY contact from you will be the green light for her to then bother you even more. Radio silence from you therefore must be maintained.

You must not at all respond to her message along with telling your friend not to forward you any messages at all from your mother. I would want to know why your friend decided to forward you this anyway, its a question I would certainly ask this person. What was the reason/s for doing so?.

Hiya

just wanted to come on and thank everyone for their replies. I'm finding it hard to process everything so can't reply properly for now. I'm still very confused. I told him my 2 main languages of love late last night (acts of service and words of affirmation). This morning I woke to a cup of tea in bed and a seemingly sincere "I love you and I hope you're feeling better today"

I knew I would get back to this place, be reeled back in. Although not totally this time. I'm going to see out my therapy, 5 sessions, and then make my decision. Well that's the plan anyway. At least I'll know I gave it one last shot. I want our relationship to work and I don't believe this man is evil, just not matched emotionally with me. And unaware of stuff.

Maybe I am being naive. And I will probably change my mind again next week. This is what it's been like for years.

To the previous poster who was sent on the email from your mother. Please speak to your friends and family and ask them never to forward on anything like that again. You want NO contact from your mother. I don't really understand your friend's reasoning for forwarding it to you? I hope you're okay xx

Hello all, I am really out of date with this thread I'm afraid, we were away last week. We stayed with my parents but it was a nightmare! My mother was really vile and made us feel very unwelcome and completely refused to acknowledge how ill and disabled I am at the moment (am very heavily pregnant, have been in a wheelchair for months and still being sick). We left a couple of days early in the end, such a relief to be back in London. At least I got to see my sister and her new baby who are visiting from Australia.

Just wanted to say to honeybadger that when I started seeing DH and fell for him I hit a massive massive wall of commitment phobia/attachment issues after about 6-8 weeks. I sort of knew those issues were there and had got as far as I could in therapy on my own but in the end the only way to confront them properly was in trying to forge a serious relationship for the first time. DH was a total rock but it was very hard for several months: to be honest I felt all the time like an out of control baby/toddler, I couldn't bear him even to leave the room but also wanted to push him away all the time; and when he did go away for a few days during that time when he got back I couldn't even look at him or speak to him, was totally paralysed by rage and despair. It was AWFUL! The only good thing was that I did sort of know what was going on, I read lots and lots about attachment and I found a new therapist (I had only recently moved to London) as soon as I could and I also swam a kilometre every day for weeks as intense exercise was the only thing that took the edge off the anxiety a bit. I had amazing stomach muscles! And we got through it and I am so proud of myself that we did. I still have anxious times but essentially I am securely attached to DH and I think that's the first time I have managed that. So even if starting a relationship unleashes very intense anxiety you can come through it.

I had similar issues after DS was born, I assume for similar reasons, but once again came through it (yet more therapy!) and was able to bond well with him eventually. He is a very secure little boy and we are expecting DS2 this month.

kali sorry to hear it's been so awful with his mother. Amazing how a vile mtoher can really sometimes produce a wondeful son!

How are you now? It can only be 2-3 weeks to go now? (You're getting an ELCS? sorry, my memory is erratic)

Misc so sorry to hear how bad things are. I wish I could say something helpful. What about the friend who had DS for you one day last week, could you call on her again at all? I know it's hideous to always be the one asking, and I know she might not be available, so I realise that's not necessarily a viable option.

I don't follow any religion but I do pray after a fashion, and you're in my prayers - hope that's not offensive to you.

thank you so much Honey for your thoughts.

I never ever thought I would feel so crap that I would be prepared to flee it all, sell up home and leave everything behind.

my DC are older and the law changed I think in '03. so although he's on the BC, as the NRP he doesn't have automatic PR, from what I recall.

All family have been told by NarcM to stay away from me, she will not tolerate anyone coming to see me, and makes it very clear with guilt trips and horrendous talk of me to them about how absolutely appalling I am being to her and father.

Only this one member of family, despite her best attempts to keep him locked up with all trips and visits of others being carefully scheduled. has managed to break out, literally barging past her saying, thats it, I'm going to see SCT get out of my way!

he had no idea where he was and i went to collect him when he called to say what his surroundings were so that I could find him!

After this there was an absolutely massive ripple effect and I had others ringing me to query why i was turning up there and being so awful to them! So there is only this one person who actually seems to really 'get it'

He stood up to her and says she seems to do what their mother used to do aswell, which was to effectively 'gate-keep' them so they couldn't do anything apart from what was arranged by her, with the people she'd arranged it with.

a SIL doubted their 'story' as she'd actually seen through a bit of stuff that drove her and her husband apart because of all the interfering she'd done.

So now, I have this opportunity. I have noone here, to be honest I've felt like stringing myself up trying to cope with NC with them and the realisations of everything I've had to struggle through, plus recent separation from abusive ex and his manipulations and threats.

To leave I would have to leave my DC behind perhaps, but to stay and be the worst mother, under such circumstances, might be a lot worse?!?!?

Why IS it so hard all the fecking time

Thanks meerka. It's my mother actually! His mother is slightly hard work but basically very supportive. I am due three weeks today but DS was a bit early so I am hopeful. I have felt different the last day or so so I think I am definitely entering the final phase hormonally, but with DS I had a good 10-14 days of feeling sure labour was on its way before it actually started. No ELCS - I think they might offer to induce when I see the consultant next week but labour and birth with DS was by far the best bit of the whole pregnancy/post-natal period so if possible I'd rather wait and go naturally in the hope that it'll be fairly straightforward again.

Sorry you are having such an awful time misc. I don't know what to say but I am thinking of you. You sound like a wonderful mother to your DS.

Just thought I'd pop in and say hello. I'm off sick from work with a stomach upset. I don't feel too bad actually, just really tired and a bit achey, but called in sick as I can't guarantee I'll be alright through 6 hours of classes, need to stay close to the loo! :(
The DC have finally gone back to school (loooong holidays here) so I'm just vegging in front of the heater with the telly on.

Apart from this stomach upset we've had a nice Christmas. I still feel good for sending DM my letter. It feels like I've turned a corner, like a weight has lifted. I'm so glad she left though, it would have been impossible with her round the corner. And I know her, she won't ever speak to me again. It won't be like others on here with the toxic trying to worm their way back in. I am effectively dead to her now, in fact she's probably said that to someone somewhere.

She'll have disinherited me (I think she may put the GC in as co-inheritors with Dbro) and apart from birthday presents for the DC (to maintain the victimhood and keep up appearances to family) I will never hear from her again. Which is a bit WTAF but makes life easier in many ways, or more peaceful.

I still occasionally have a moment when I hear news or something and think "oh I must tell DM that" and then remember, but on the whole it doesn't upset me and even if it gives me a pang I remember what the therapist says about not being able to have the relationship I want with her, ever and to accept that, and that helps in a funny way. I feel calm, at peace.

I have another session but not for another 2 weeks. The therapy helped so much, especially writing and sending the letter. I understand that for a lot of people it wouldn't, as it would invite more contact, but in my case, that's not her MO and it helped me to say it and know it was heard (although not accepted).

Once I get over this stomach upset I need to get my head sorted for my professional exams in 2 weeks. I'm nervous, but not feeling like such a fraud as I used to, that's also thanks to therapy.

Going to have a little nap, hope everyone is OK.

xx

Hi, thanks for replies, it helped reading them yesterday

I think my friend told me because she wanted me to know what she's up to now and tbh whilst she knows some of the ins&outs, it's hard to convey exactly how bad things are sometimes you know? She was there when we were growing up and my mum would throw me out for some imagined misdemeanour or through the really twisted things (I can't talk about that yet tbh) but it's hard to convey the atmosphere or tone of voice all the time you know?
She's replied to say to never involve her, she's my friend and will always believe me etc and then blocked my mother so she shouldn't hear anymore from her.

I got another email from her this morning,saying she's moved house, changing her number/email so I can never contact her- I replied to say i asked her not to contact me and she was breaking that and not to send my kids presents as I will return them
I probably shouldn't have done though right?

Great that your friend is so totally on your side.

Regarding your mother, seems to me that your mail was fair enough but don't engage any further. She was playing ner-ner-ner-ner-ner, wasn't she? (I'd have been tempted to send an email back laughing).

About the presents though, just charity shop them. She might very well try anything she can to keep rubbing it in that She Is Not Talking To You, like with this mail. Returning them is playing that game.

Santas

Your friend's judgment to actually send you that e-mail from your mother was way off beam and her reasons for doing so are really poor ones. There was no reason for you to know about your mother's life now because of your no contact.

Your friend needs to be told by you if you have not already done so that this must not ever happen again. You do not want to know anything about your mother's life now. If your friend still acts as messenger then she needs to be let go of frankly because she really is no friend of yours. The best thing your friend has done here is to now seemingly block her e-mail address; this should have happened before now however.

Re your comment:-
"I got another email from her this morning, saying she's moved house, changing her number/email so I can never contact her- I replied to say i asked her not to contact me and she was breaking that and not to send my kids presents as I will return them. I probably shouldn't have done though right?."

No you should not have responded at all because you by replying at all have given her what she wanted; an "in" and a response from you.

Presents from such people should always be forwarded to the nearest charity shop; again if these are returned to her that is a response from you. You certainly do not want your children to be further exposed to her toxic manipulation in terms of presents (such gifts from these people are rarely if ever sent without condition attached). Radio silence must always be maintained no matter what the provocation from the toxic person.

She will keep breaking any boundaries and actually I daresay has no concept of them.

Toxic people always want a) a fight and b) the last word. The other issue here is that your mother's e-mail address to your e-mail account should have been blocked at the time you decided to go no contact with your mother. That further message to you may well have been sent in response to your friend's communication. NC is precisely that, no contact of any sort.

goodtobetter lovely to hear that overall it's going really well and that you feel so freed and so clear.

sugar ... I am glad that at least one person sees through what is going on. That must really help you keep faith in yourself, when everyone else is being blinded by your mother.

Is there no chance at all you could take your children? It is a terribly difficult situatoin .. how old are they?

and sorry, I'm not being very helpful to others right now, I feel a bit too caught up with this and have to try to find a way out somehow, and I think writing it down really helps going through the processing of it. Normally you'd have a decent person in your life to talk through such big decisions with, and most outside the door don't seem to understand so readily how it is when your family is this way, or your partner abusive and the effect it has on trying to be a mother whilst terrified with noone to turn to.

sugar its absolutely fine, we help each other. Everyone has their good times and bad!

It kinda feels very invalidating indeed that only one person sees through her, because if everyone could see it I'm sure none of us would feel as lost with it as we do. I really couldn't care less now what she does or says about me, but it doesn't mean I didn't struggle desperately with it in the past and take massive steps to get myself out of there and live with the grief that comes as part of that.

It really does yes, it is huge that there is one person in the family that has had his eyes opened to it Meeka.

I think it relies on me having sole PR? which isn't the case for DC born post 03, but mine are all pre 03, so it shouldn't affect anything and i can take them anywhere i would have thought, or hoping?

I know being an adult is based on making decisions and taking responsibility, but, as someone wrote recently, "it doesn't seem fair having to spend your life catching up to the line that many others were at to start with"... .. and then the situations you have to face after that are all the more devastating as a result of this family (like having to go NC and live alone).

I know that many do then go on to build happy family homes in the aftermath by meeting someone decent and kind, who won't take the piss and derange you because they want to, but i wasn't that fortunate and having with great difficulty left all that nc with family stuff well in the past, now having to deal with a FW of an ex who tries to completely derail the DC continually, along with not missing any thinnest of opportunities to obliterate me. fucking crap life is shit sometimes

And I've just found my mother is on Gransnet! Slagging me off to all and sundry online and changing the course of history - for example she's saying she bought all the baby equipment, she bought a bouncy chair (about £50 I think at most) and the pram but my grandmother gave her the money back for that
Shes saying all I do is plonk both kids in front of cbeebies all day (I wish some days!) I do have it on when she's here but thats cos the kids don't really know her and it gives them an "out"
I'm fuming, she's painted it so different to reality - is that how she really thinks or does she know its not true but actively twists it round so she comes out "better"?

Yes, this is how she really thinks.

Your best bet here going forward is to stay no contact with your mother.

sct at least one person sees through it. It really does help doesn't it.

I remember being told that my father and stepmother were lovely people, top parents. By quite a lot of people. It was only about ten years later that I realised that several people saw much more of their characters, though not what was actually going on, than they said at the time.

I'm glad that became clear later on, it meant something even much later. But it left me very alone and isolated, being told by the unperceptive people how nice they were.

grrrr santas that must make you so mad!

Must be very hard to resist setting the record straight!

But as atilla says ... it would be better to stay no contact, definitely.

It is, I've fantasised about joining and correcting her on every post but what would be the point, she'd still think I was an evil bastard child out to scam her for every penny.
Do you ever have moments where you "believe" it? You know, if you're feeling a bit low, does anyone else have times where you think if you're own mother can think/talk like that about you then it must be true?
And how do I make sure I'm not that kind of parent to my boys? Will it be different because its boys? Id absolutely love a third but tbh the thought if a girl really scares me for this reason