Email from DHs friend

[MillyMollyMandy78]

Ok my husband was recently telling me with much amusement about an email his best friend sent him about an affair he had. His wife knew and was apparently ok with it, and the email was very braggy and quite graphic in places. However, the tone of some parts have really pissed me off, and i want some other views. I feel that he almost seems to be encouraging my husband to give it a go, and i feel like DH is being disloyal by not challenging some of these views. We have argued a few times over this, and his lack of response. He says it would not influence him, and he disapproves of his affair but i still feel he should say something to him.

Here are a few quotes from the email: 'compatible people are out there everywhere... You could pick up something new with anyone... It is not necessary to settle for really stupid stuff in a relationship cos u could just move on... Having closeness (and sex) with someone who isnt your wife can be perfectly fine if handled right... I suspect you're a lot like me, and don't get praise in your day to day life... Mostly people bitching to me .... What i didn't realise is how much meaning having just one extra person tell you they think you're wonderful, how much that means'.

The general tone of the email is one about how fab it was, comparing woman to his wife (who's just had a baby) etc by referencing her 'droopy boobs' etc and just so disrespectful. He did have an emotional affair about a year before this, but they didn't have sex cos the other woman felt to guilty - he was very keen to do so! In the email he thanks DH for his support re the previous woman (DH says he didn't really support him as such, but did a bit cos his friend was sad). I know my judgement is partially flawed cos he comes across as such a jerk in the email, i used to like him. Am i being crazy over this? I genuinely feel very upset and betrayed, tho can't exactly explain why, and i feel he owes DH/ me an apology as feels like he is trying to suggest an affair wud be good for DH too. They rarely see each other but r due to meet up next week, and it brought it all to a head again this weekend. I wud never say they cant be friends etc, but deep down i wish they wouldn't. Do i need to get a grip, and if so, how?

Thanks across however I struggle with your comparison - what you describe is a criminal act, the other is a moral judgement. The two cannot be compared. And thank you for the correction, however one person's "reason" is another person's "excuse". Semantics maybe and depends on your POV!

millymolly - why are you judging DH?? He hasn't done anything apart from perhaps engaging in a bit of locker room banter! Sorry, blokes do this. We talk about who we fancy and who we'd like to shag but it absolutely doesn't mean we would ever do anything about it (I don't think such conversations are restricted to guys anyway!). It sounds like you are insecure about your own marriage, despite DH's reassurances, and this is what you need to address. Why do you assume your marriage is the same as his mate's and that DH "needs" to have an affair? By making a joke about it suggests that DH is actually dismissing it and not taking it seriously. Why are you arguing about something that doesn't directly affect either of you?! May I suggest that you save your energy and emotions for something that does matter...

His wife can get an amendment to her l2 visa which will entitle her to work. It costs around a thousand dollars.
Hope you have a way of passing this information on.

intiman I regard both theft and infidelity as moral failures, although only one is a crime, so in that way they are comparable. And it wasn't all that long ago that BOTH were punishable by law. I'm not suggesting that infidelity should go back to being a crime, just that at one time society regarded both theft and infidelity as incompatible with a moral/law-abiding society. Goodness, I sound like someone's stiff-necked Maiden Auntie!!

I've never been cheated on (at least as far as I know!) but I've seen close at hand the effects that cheating can have on the wronged spouse and the children. It's by far more devastating than having your house broken into, yet 99% of the time the cheater just goes on his/her merry way.

I think it really isn't semantics. To me there is never a reason to cheat. If someone isn't happy in their marriage, no longer loves their spouse, or is being treated badly by their spouse, then the right thing to do is leave. Not to use it as an excuse to stray. If my cousin's husband had just been honest, had told her up-front that he no longer loved her, and ended the marriage for that reason it would have hurt her deeply but not caused the devastation she felt upon finding he'd been cheating on her for at least a year. She felt she had been living a lie for no idea how long, rather than just having to face an honest truth up front.

Across society, and what is socially acceptable, has moved on and continues to evolve at a rapid pace. Some of it I like, some of it I don't. I fully respect your "Maiden Auntie" POV (!!) but there are always two sides to the argument. I am aware that adultery is technically still illegal in many US states but hasn't been in Europe for many, many years and the balance between morality and legality varies around the world. You may be right that honesty is the best way however I also know of people where the "extracurricular" activities are what keep the marriage together (and its not just the guys who are active). So horses for courses I guess. I'm sorry your cousin was so badly hurt. We will never know if her reaction would have been different if told upfront...

Mmm, feel we are drifting off topic.

Jesus christ.

Firstly, can we establish that adultery is not exactly the big ticket item here, as much of a knob as it makes him.

The fact is that this guy has not only cheated on his wife, but utterly HUMILIATED her in an e-mail to his "buddy". It's about the fact that he is actively encouraging the OP's husband to develop a roving eye. It's about the blatant disrespect to the OP with comments like "yeah I'm sure you're totally fucking hen pecked". It's about totally trivialising what he is putting his wife through by humble bragging about shit he treats her.

It's one thing to send an e-mail saying "I'm having an affair. It's wonderful, but I know it's a shitty thing to do. Oh my god, what am I going to do". And an e-mail like this.

This isn't about approving or disapproving of infidelity (although I don't see how anyone can ever approve of a spouse cheating on their partner. Especially when the partner is...oh I don't know....stuck in a different continent, with a baby, completely isolated from family and utterly dependent on her shit of a husband...). This is about disapproving of someone who is behaving like absolute SCUM.

If you got an e-mail from someone full of totally vile racist comments about colleagues, then the NORMAL reaction would be to call them out on it. That's the comparison with this. You don't just chuckle merrily away and think "Oh he's so bad". Or, at least, you don't if you have any shred of human decency.

And to the OP

I am liking your husband less and less. So it's okay for his friend to disrespect you in e-mails. It's okay for him to insinuate that he couldn't possible be happy in the marriage.

And even worse, it's okay that this guy treats his wife like absolute SHIT, because "...she a bit annoying".

You're husband is a dick. No wonder he gets on with this e-mail festering cockshit.

Intiman - my reaction is definately partially stemming from my own insecurities, but not sure how i actually deal with this. Unfortunately a lot of it isnt even to do with my DH and more to do with the abusive relationship before him, which lasted 8 years. Sometimes i feel i will never trust anyone completely and know i need to sort myself out. And the point you make about my husband finding it amusing because he can't take it seriously himself, is a good one, and reassuring - thank you. I know we should not be arguing about this which is why i have said to DH i want to just go back to being us and he should do whatever he wants re his friend... He seems keen to move on too.

I do fear I am in the wrong in being so upset with DH as i know it isn't him that has had an affair, but i do judge him for his response to all this.

Uh, no.

If DP was in this position I'd be furious if he didn't tell his friend that he's a fucking disgrace.

Has the email been deleted? If not, may I suggest that you keep it as evidence for when you friend finally divorces this utter bastard.

Sorry, blokes do this. We talk about who we fancy and who we'd like to shag but it absolutely doesn't mean we would ever do anything about it (I don't think such conversations are restricted to guys anyway!).

Some 'blokes' do this. Others have grown up.

Something - i hardly know the wife. Only met her twice: once at her wedding and the other at ours. And i agree that not all men behave in this way. It is not something typical of my DH at all and this is part of what shocked me that he doesnt even seem to have noticed how disrespectful and vile the email was. We have been together for over 10 years and i have never seen him in this sort of light before - i just do not see why DH would want to be around someone like this. Part of me thinks it is just immaturity: they have been friends for all this time and doesn't seem to consider how it may be otherwise. I think part of it is going along with things in a bid to be one of the crowd

Ugh. Most men outgrow that kind of peer pressure when they get out of their teens.

I've spent years hanging out with blokes, who honestly don't hold back on the "banter" on my account. I've never heard any of my friends talk about women or their partners in this manner. There's one bloke I know who does, but it's always been my opinion, and that of my husband's, that he's a twat so I don't consider him a friend.

Not having words with the friend is one thing; quite another not even to feel a shocked by witnessing somebody treat another person with such disrespect. I totally understand why that gives you pause wrt your DH's character.

I still think you should ask him keep the email to help her build a case if/when it comes to divorce.

I don't think it's worth too much navel gazing. Your husband finds it funny and doesn't think it's a big deal as he doesn't like the wife. He's told you clearly what his views are on infidelity.

My ex h was a cheating arsehole as were his friend's. He would love to retell these affair stories and I could literally see the excitement and awe on his face as he retold them. I really agree that you can tell a lot about people by the company they keep.

You haven't mentioned what your husbands reply was to this email.

You can tell a lot about people by who they choose as friends."

This. So true. My exH used to tell me about the cheating, lies and general awfulness of his best friend all the time. All the while assuring me he was not like that. But then I discovered he was in fact just like that….

Telling your DH not to see his friend, who he hardly sees is controlling. It's a slippery slop because virtual all abusive behaviour stems from insecurity.

I have one or two friends who behave the same; they are my friends because they are good friends but I know full well they are shit partners.
With this friend we meet up for drinks once in a while but he is my very good friend because he would go to the end of the earth for me.

If you think peer pressure will make your DH cheat then either you have trust issues or something is not right in your relationship.

You have every right to not allow him inside your home but have no right to dictate who he speaks to.
Isn't the email testimony your DH doesn't cheat.

It sounds like he wants your DH as a wing man and I imagine his brilliant lifestyle is really not as good as he's making out.

A driver at DPs work was telling him about his gf, been with her for 4 months and she's expecting twins - he's shagging the woman on the burger van around the corner. It's all very Jeremy Kyle. DP told him to sort himself out.

Regarding friend's wife - She is pretty vulnerable - obv new mum, but they emigrated to america for his job a few years ago, and visa says she can't work, she doesnt really have any friends, not much money, all family over here etc, and if she left him she would have to come back to uk or be deported.

I don't think anything your DH says will change this man, he's an abusive shit. I think he's only talking to your DH about it so that he can say to his wife "well, Milly's husband knows about it and seems to think I've done nothing wrong...". If she is vulnerable she will believe him, think it's normal or think she's making a fuss if she objects.

I think a copy of friend's email through the post would give her the evidence she needs for a swift divorce. Otherwise this man will continue to emotionally undermine this woman and their child will suffer.

This man doesn't deserve this woman and he certainly doesn't deserve to be a father.

Millymolly - that sounds a sensible course of action IMHO. Its not your problem so don't get involved, focus on DH and your relationship. Sorry that you've had a rough time in the past but I hope DH is aware of this and can thus provide the reassurances that you need. This mate does not sound like a nice guy but I'd ignore him as it really doesn't affect you. You have made your point to DH and he has listened. Good luck.

Badbalding - DH didnt reply to the email but he says next time he spoke that he just asked a couple of questions about how his friend met woman and went on to take things further. Sounds to me he just got more details re juicy gossip, in his mind.

Arsenal - i completely agree that choosing who DH is friends with is very controlling which is why i have let it go now and focused on us again. Tbh i struggle with knowing how to behave appropriately when i am hurt and insecure. I know i overreact to a lot of things but i find it impossible to justlet things wash over be and am very oversensitive to many things. I have had counselling in the past which has improved my confidence and helped me understand where these feelings come from (abusive childhood and previous relationship) but i still wish i could detach more. Not sure how to just care less about these things, and still shout and rant when hurt, just nowhere near as often. I think i just never felt like anyone's number 1, and i know DH loves me but still just not convinced i am his no 1 as such. I seem to spend too much time 'looking for evidence' to prove/ disprove this. Why can't i just enjoy being with the man i love?

When a man loves a woman ......
.........
She can do no wrong .....
..........
Turn his back on his best friend if he puts her down

Tbh i struggle with knowing how to behave appropriately when i am hurt and insecure. I know i overreact to a lot of things but i find it impossible to justlet things wash over be and am very oversensitive to many things.

I disagree.

In this instance I think you know exactly how to behave appropriately, you're NOT insecure, just reasonable and you're ALLOWED to be hurt. You're NOT overreacting, just read what others are saying and you're NOT being oversensitive here at all. This man's behaviour is abusive and misogynistic - of course you don't want it to touch your life in any way.

And it's NOT controlling to veto your DH's friends. You are protecting your own family from idiots. That's just normal adult behaviour.

Thank you Willkommen for the reassurance. I doubt myself a lot as i can be all those things i previously mentioned. I gained a lot of confidence in my opinions from some of the replies and then doubted myself again. I just want to leave it be now cos i know DH will not take any action. He will nod and say the right things to me, then still meet up anyway with his friend (Saturday) regardless. All that will happen in the meantime if i stand my ground is we will spend the week arguing. We have just stopped mentioning it now. He is a mostly good person but is very weak and never acts on things or stands up to people (except me sometimes). He is not one to fight for what he believes in, which i find hard to respect sometimes - life shouldnt always be about taking the easy way out. He is mid-thirties so don't think he will grow a backbone any time soon, and as much as i love him, he can be very cold and selfish at times, and tends to do his own thing regardless... So, either way i end up unhappy, so what is the point of trying to talk to him when it will just end up in more rows. I made my feelings clear, and read out most of the replies on here the other day (at his request) so he knows it's not just me, and tbh i have enough shit in my life this close to Christmas to be dealing with his issues on top

Oh and Wilkommen, we have no family / kids, in case that's relevent... Just the two of us