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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Single life

59 replies

vienna1981 · 11/12/2014 11:49

Good morning everyone. Could I please ask your opinions on my situation.

I am nearly 44 years old, a single
man living alone. Throughout my teenage years and all my adult life I
have had no intimate contact with
any woman. That really sums it up.

Things began to go wrong for me just before my 18th birthday. A girl in my class at school had, on reflection,
been paying me a lot of attention. I
got on well with her and found her
very attractive but I didn't reciprocate
because I knew she had a steady
boyfriend and I was wary of treading
on someone else's toes. What I didn't
know was that the relationship was
waning. Anyway said girl decided to
hook up with my brother on New
Year's Eve which was the start of a
nearly four-year relationship for
them. Brother was either unaware of
the boyfriend or had been told that he
was all but out of the picture, thus
leaving the way clear, so to speak.

Rightly or wrongly I couldn't help but feel used, humiliated and very
jealous. Without me, girl and brother
would never have met and I could
well have enjoyed embarking on my
first personal relationship.

I don't think I have ever got over this. I am a shy, quiet and sensitive person at the best of times and this episode gave my modest self-confidence a kicking it didn't need. Since then there has been about half a dozen women (keeping count sounds terrible) I have taken an interest in but nothing has happened. I have asked for dates and drinks a few times but have been turned down on every occasion. I have lost contact (my doing) with the few schoolfriends I had. They are all now either married with children or in long-term relationships and I can't bear the comparison. I have six older brothers and sisters who are similarly settled in life. BTW the brother I mentioned earlier met and married someone else sixteen years ago. Ironically when he broke up with 'my' girl after nearly four years it was ME he came running to for support and company. Beats me why I didn't tell him to get knotted. We're fine these days but I shall never forgive him and her for screwing me around all those years ago.

The older I get the more I feel how disappointing my life is. I work full time in a manual job. No shame there but it's poorly paid and I'm punching under my weight. I work with people much younger than me who find meeting boyfriends and girlfriends as easy as falling off a log. I am very much aware of my personal shortcomings which makes me defensive and aloof, to the point of arrogance according to some folk. I hate socialising, even in the most informal circumstances, and spend most of my time outside work alone. I find it very hard seeing others of all ages getting along and enjoying themselves in carefree fashion, especially in pubs and restaurants and wishing I could do the same.

I would dearly love to be the polar opposite of the man I am. I have spent thirty-odd years having low self-esteem, little confidence and a good deal of introversion and pride. I am fed up of being a shrinking violet in his mid-forties with little to show for it. My only significant achievement is buying and owning my home. It's only a one bedroom flat but it's not rented. It's mine and I am grateful for that every day.

Needless to say I am still a virgin. One or two of my closer workmates know this and are fine with it. Goodness knows what less charitable folk would make of it at my age. Even telling folk I have always been single brings surprised or downright unhelpful responses. How come ? What's wrong with you ? Are you gay or something ? And so on. BTW I am definitely heterosexual.

Have I just been very unlucky ? I shall welcome all your opinions, comments and advice, no matter what.

Thankyou for your indulgence ladies and gents. I appreciate this is a lengthy post. Wink

OP posts:
LoisPuddingLane · 11/12/2014 19:51

You're very welcome, Vienna. I don't think "middle aged" dating/singlehood is particularly easy for anyone, even if you quite like your own company. I love being on my own but it scares me that this is it, forever.

All we can do is keep trying.

MadeMan · 11/12/2014 20:09

"I love being on my own but it scares me that this is might be it, forever. "

Fixed.

Muckymoo71 · 11/12/2014 20:32

There's a lot you can do if you want to change your life. You need to shake off that if only thought though about that girl. Get online, sort yourself out some decent threads and actively make yourself more social so you have something to talk about. There will be someone out there who will be looking for someone, lots of 40 something divorcees but they won't want someone who hankers after how their life might have been. What interests do you have? If there is anyone you like ask them out! The advantage is that there will be women out there to show you the ropes re sex ( no pun intended) maybe have a few NSA meets if you can get them.. When you have some confidence I'm pretty sure someone will happen along. Get yourself on meet up too and just try anything. I have another idea too but not going to broadcast it on here, pm me if you want..

Just please dont sit and fester at home, too many people do that, we get one life after all.

HumblePieMonster · 11/12/2014 23:06

Referring to the opening post:

Get counselling, go to the gp tomorrow, pay for some counselling if you can. Talking through it really helps.

You need to drop the resentment of the brother/girl/others. Just cut it out of your mind. You can do that.

Take online tests eg www.aspergerstestsite.com/aq-test/#.VIoiH7lyYdU and find out about Asperger's Syndrome in adult males and see if you recognise yourself. You might not. And people on MN are keen to ascribe all known ills to Asperger. But I'm Aspie and it sounds to me as if you have some of the classic indicators.

Don't worry about virginity. What you find out when you lose it is that it never really mattered at all. What does matter is that you get yourself into a positive mental state where you can meet people and find someone you like. 44 isn't old. You've time to have a wonderful life.

You're working, solvent, own your own place. You haven't shagged half the world so you're not full of disease. You are a catch. You're awkward socially but so are a lot of women. They are out there, waiting for you to sort yourself out so they can have the pleasure of a man in their lives.

Go to it.

superstarheartbreaker · 12/12/2014 07:17

Tbh the girl from the past dosn't sound that great. So she had a boyfriend whilst flirting with you then hooked up with your brother? Honestly... Not worth falling out with your brother or loosing your self esteem for.

Celestria · 12/12/2014 07:30

"A comfort zone is a beautiful place but nothing ever grows there"

"If you want something you've never had, you have to do something you've never done. "

Chucking quotes at you OP but they are totally correct.

You can't carry your grudge against this girl and your brother like a shield. That's got you nowhere in the last twenty years. One girl hurt you. Not all women.

Sorry to say it but if you want changes to your life, you are going to have to create them. Work out what those changes are and how you can achieve them then get on and do it.

And look into some counselling. Your reaction to your brother and this girl is not healthy. It makes me wonder what else has happened to hold onto this so strongly. Good childhood?

CheersMedea · 12/12/2014 12:53

oh come on, with that story of the girl not sleeping with her crush on date one - if he was right for her (rather than after a lustful drunken one night stand) of course HE would give her a second chance. Some people just don't jump to bed on the first date, no matter what the chemistry - they could have (and did, as I understand) kiss with passion! If he couldn't wait ill at least next day he's no Mr.Right

beaglesaresweet

You are missing the point of the story!!! It is not about whether he was Mr Right, it is about the fact that failing to seize the moment as regards relationships means that you will miss out. The future is uncertain.

There is no such thing as "Mr Right". All there is is people who are compatible and mutually attracted. To end up in a long term happy relationship, you have to take the first step. How that first step happens is different for everyone. It doesn't follow he would have asked her out again even if they were perfectly suited. He may have felt totally rejected after plucking up courage to make that first move. She was too shy to ask him again herself.

Who knows what might have happened? They may have had terrible sex and never wanted to see each other. Equally, it could have been amazing and that first step on a lifelong journey. The whole story reminded me of that sub-plot in Love Actually with Laura Linney (Sarah) and Karl the hot foreign guy - where she ends up alone.

It really made me think though how relationships, getting into relationships and missing opportunities are so fragile.

Seize the moment always.

beaglesaresweet · 12/12/2014 15:09

CheersM, I 've only used that term 'mr right' because the girl in question thought he was one, according to the story. Maybe I misunderstood but I thought they had 'got together' in some way after drinks at the party, i.e. talked, kissed. That would have been more than ebough to start something for many people, while having sex straight away after years of pining can feel like just too much of a shock and she wasn't mentally prepared - totally excusable I think. Having said that, if she never asked him out since (if there was no kissing and he just invited her to his house or something) that was a mistake and I agree that could be called a missed opportunity. Personally I would always feel something's off if a guy I really liked for a long time asked me to have sex straight away - too much pressure, I need some build-up and so do many women when they are emotional/romantic about a man, not just after a bit of fun.

MadeMan · 12/12/2014 15:12

"The whole story reminded me of that sub-plot in Love Actually with Laura Linney (Sarah) and Karl the hot foreign guy - where she ends up alone."

I thought this sub-plot was one of the best things about that film; apart from Bill Nighy.

Fairylea · 12/12/2014 15:20

The one thing that stood out to me reading your post was that it reads like someone who is 74, not 44.

44 is quite young by today's standards. Sure it's not exactly 18 but it's young enough to change your life and start over. I'm 34 and been married several times, have 2 children and have done everything from very senior marketing management to working in a hotel for minimum wage. The main thing I've done with my life is grab it with both hands and live it. You won't be on your death bed regretting all the things you tried to do. Just the things you didn't. I'm now embarking on a completely different venture. Life is ever changing.

Rework your cv. Go for a new job, go online dating, even relocate. It's great you own your own home - it gives you some freedom when it comes to where you live. Go travelling maybe. .anything. Just give yourself a task and something to wake up for. I think once you start opening your horizons you might meet someone suitable.

My mum is 65 and started dating again after 3 divorces and 20 years alone when she was 63. She moved in with her new partner 6 months ago and they are really happy (met online). It's never too late.

MadeMan · 12/12/2014 15:21

"He may have felt totally rejected after plucking up courage to make that first move. She was too shy to ask him again herself."

If I ask a woman out and she turns me down, then I am unlikely to bother asking again. If it turns out that it was because she panicked/got all flustered/is too shy then that's just how it is, but the ball is in her court to do something; don't just assume, "Oh well if he's really interested in me then he'll ask me out again". No I won't be asking again.

Why would anyone keep on harrassing asking someone just to probably get turned down again? Just move on.

MadeMan · 12/12/2014 15:25

Oops, I meant to mention that I was agreeing with your quote there CheersMedea; just in case you think I was having a pop at you. Smile

vienna1981 · 12/12/2014 21:43

Thankyou again everyone for all your generous responses. I've had some time to read through them now.

Mamato3luvleys. The dating agency idea is a natural and frequent suggestion. I confess I find the idea of a computer having a hand in my private life quite unsettling and something of an admission of failure. I am nevertheless grateful for your input. Letting the past be the past. Might be easier had all this not happened at such a delicate age.

Arsenaltilidie. Why is it important for a man to be proactive as opposed to a woman ? I certainly don't put women on a pedestal.

Lois. I do still feel resentment but not anger. In fact anger is one emotion I don't often feel.

Cogit. I agree about the insecurity but I'm not convinced it is possible or even sustainable to try to be more confident and outgoing when it isn't me. Furthermore, the mask would be bound to slip sooner or later. Interesting thoughts all the same.

Tizer85. I find it hard to socialise because I feel uncomfortable in a group of more than two or three, perhaps to the point of abject anxiety or social phobia.

Riverland. Please understand why I didn't "reach forward". I happened to respect the fact there was an existing relationship. Had I known the actual facts I wouldn't have hesitated at all because everything otherwise felt right.

Cheersmedea. "Chased a bit more". Why should I chase anyone ? No means just that. Chasing just sounds indecent. Out of interest would you encourage a rejected woman to chase a disinterested man ?

LadyBlaBlah. I have been rejected more than once. This, the first time and two or three others since. No successes and no "chasing" (I know you didn't mention the latter ).

Beaglesaresweet. Agreed re negative attitude. I confess this is a constant thread in my life.

Muckymoo71. Would you be kind enough to PM me your other idea, whatever it may be. I can't find the PM function on this mobile. Thankyou.

Humblepiemonster. I was assessed for Asperger's at a regional ASD centre four years ago. I don't have it and the investigation and analysis didn't conclude anything else.

Celestria. Your childhood comment really caught my attention. My parents fed, clothed and housed me without fail. I wanted for nothing materially but there was little tactile love and affection. Being the youngest child of seven there was a steady stream of hand-me-downs, constant reminders of being "the baby ", lack of privileges afforded to my older siblings because I was "the youngest" and thus stymied when it came to growing up. On reflection I felt comparatively second-class which hasn't prepared me for life as a well-adjusted adult.

On a side-note, my mother died a few months ago. I haven't shed a single tear over this. In fact I haven't cried since I was about nine years old.

Thanks for your indulgence folks. I look forward to reading more contributions, if any.Smile

OP posts:
beaglesaresweet · 13/12/2014 01:08

vienna, now that you've described your childhood, no wonder that resentment featured in your life early on and then the fact it's one of your older brothers (again) that came first while pushing you to the backseat, pressed on your emotional buttons. Of course, as I understand, he didn't know that you were interested in her, in which case the resentment is irrational but taking onto account the build-up from childhood, also very typical thing to happen. Lack of tactile affection from parents obviously bnot great too, maybe you come across as cold/withdrawn to women who don't know you and that's one of the reasons of then turning you down.

I really sympathise OP, all this history of rejection and being undervalued while you are a genuine person who's just been unlucky with the way they grew up. Would you consider counselling? people do say that it changed their lives by shifting the perception of yourself and letting go of negative thoughts by getting a fresh perspective - CBT might suit you. I must say, it did cross my mind that you may have ASD, don't know how good that testing was, but if not, it should be easier to find the right counselling as no additional complications.

As others said, you really must find some activity or a group outside work to join - you won't meet anyone otherwise, not just women but any new make friends maybe who you could then go out with in a group of 2-3. Or if you really don't want to do that, then internet dating is the only choice - you have to be logical and practical! Many people find good partners that way, and you can write well, so you are quite suited to online dating, but again - you have to see it positively. Best to do both really - try a new activity but also join online dating as a backup. You say you don't like socialising as such, but what about a class - learning something in a small group, a language (as again, you write well)? or some interior decorating/diy classes, quite popular with women nowadays!

beaglesaresweet · 13/12/2014 01:10

*male friends (not 'make')

beaglesaresweet · 13/12/2014 01:12

forgot to mention cooking classes, always a mix of genders there which may be surprising but true.

beaglesaresweet · 13/12/2014 01:13

oh and I meant to add cooking classes to the list, again a mix of genders there too nowadays, trendy actually.

Celestria · 13/12/2014 01:43

Sounds to me like there is a lot of tight self control going on there OP. I think you allowed yourself to feel vulnerable once and have locked yourself down ever since.

I believe you would benefit from some counselling. I don't personally think you are ready for a relationship quite just yet. There are things that need dealt with from the sounds of your reply.

The whole negative attitude thing. That takes work. No getting away from it. You can't just say, from now on I'm going to be happy. It takes time to change thought patterns and learn more positive habits. You have to commit yourself to it, new habits take time to form.

Counselling to help unravel what's going on inside. Life coaching to work on positivity or self help.

bunchoffives · 13/12/2014 01:53

Why not try some volunteering. Something to make you forget about you and your problems and focus on someone else?

mrscumberbatch · 13/12/2014 02:40

You come across as very articulate. I can't help but feel that you are perhaps guilty of over thinking situations.

Ie: rather than making a throwaway suggestion to go for a drink/ a
Movie etc you would fully contemplate what you want to say and also 'script' your response depending on the response given.

Sorry if that doesn't ring true, but I have a friend in the same position as you and that is the exact problem that he has. He is excellent company and very witty but has such low self esteem that he cannot bring himself to 'step off the ledge' as it were, and comes across as quite unavailable.

Do you drink at all OP or are you teetotal? I only ask as obviously it's easy to lose some inhibitions after a couple of glasses of wine.

vienna1981 · 13/12/2014 10:50

I've been down the CBT road two years ago. After about six sessions with a trainee CBT practitioner (an otherwise well-qualified clinical psychologist) I threw in the towel. He was a likeable fellow but somehow I just didn't gel with him. I think I kept missing the point of what the CBT was all about, judging by my 'homework' missing the target more than once. Ironically the CBT was my own suggestion to my GP. I guess I simply didn't appreciate what it actually was and I saw it as just another brand of therapy. I was willing to try anything at the time but I remember thinking before I cancelled the CBT: "Who are you kidding ? You are who you are. You cannot change, no matter what". Not insignificantly, the transport costs of going to the CBT were becoming prohibitive, although the therapy itself was NHS.

Prior to the CBT episode I had three other counselling encounters. The first was fifteen years ago with a private clinical psychologist. He was great and I did make some progress but, at £45.00 an hour, it wasn't sustainable. I wasn't even a homeowner then. No way could I afford it now. I also had an assessment with a NHS clinical psychologist in the summer of 2000 (I was on Seroxat for depression at the time). Just one hour-long meeting when I got to talk all about my childhood and family and various private and personal matters (including the subject of this post). I felt so much better having the chance just to talk freely and I walked away with a spring in my step. Foolishly I made the rash decision to cancel the rest of the programme, thinking it was now so unnecessary. Bad mistake. Then, about eight years ago, I saw another NHS counsellor. Again, there was a bit of misunderstanding between me and the counsellor and failure to identify targets to deal with. So that ended fairly quickly as well.

Maybe counselling just isn't suitable for me but I do know I'm not teetotal. I do occasionally think I drink more than I should but on the other hand, I have to be very disciplined given the nature of my work and the awful hours I do. So I'm ok on this front. I admit I do drink alone most of the time. Personally I blame Wetherspoon for opening a nice pub five minutes' walk from my front door !

OP posts:
mrscumberbatch · 13/12/2014 12:20

Does your job have to consist of so many hours? Really?
I can't help but feel that you have substituted commitment to a relationship to commitment to your work.
Do other men with families work the same hours that you do or are you a Lone Ranger on the overtime front?

I think you need to realign your life as you don't seem to be having any quality 'you' time. Do you have any extra curricular hobbies? Can you make time for one?

Do you have any solid friendships that can support you?

HumblePieMonster · 13/12/2014 13:42

I think you're determined not to get over this, OP.

CheersMedea · 13/12/2014 13:57

Cheersmedea. "Chased a bit more". Why should I chase anyone ? No means just that. Chasing just sounds indecent. Out of interest would you encourage a rejected woman to chase a disinterested man ?

I'm sorry to say there is a big cultural difference between the way men are "expected" to behave and the way women are "expected" to behave in dating culture.

As with all things there are exceptions of course, but generally speaking, women are indoctrinated to believe that if a man is interested in you he will ask you out. Read some of the relationships threads here to see the way a lot of women thing about this.

Culturally, men are expected to be the hunter/gatherer/pursurer/chaser when it comes to relationships. Even though we are in the 21st century, this remains a deep rooted attitude. And even though women may ask men out, it's always much nicer and more flattering for the man to do the asking.

I'm not suggesting you start hounding women who are really not interested but sometimes a "no" may not be what it appears. Eg:

Man: I've got tickets to the theatre next Saturday would you like to come with me.
Woman: I'd love to but I'm really sorry I have my cousin's wedding next Saturday. Maybe another time?

This really means "no I can't because I have another serious commitment" but I would really like too and I'm hoping you will pick up on my "another time?" and ask me again in future. It maybe that all you are hearing is NO NO NO.

I'm encouraging you to try to read people better and assess the difference between a "NO NEVER" and a "NO not right now" or "maybe dressed up as a no".

Chasing is fun and part of the game of dating. The man I married really pursued me - and hell, it's flattering!!!!

Dating is fun. Meeting new people is fun. You need to change your attitude.

CheersMedea · 13/12/2014 13:57
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