Am I just unlucky to have 4 narcs intimately involved in my life?

[Somethingtodo]

Maybe its because I only discovered what narcs were yesterday - and I have been futily (?sp is that even a word?) trying to manage these people all my life - it has been exhausting.

But it has been such a relief to see the pattern defined rather than remain immersed in the amorphous, disorienating, demoralising, shit storms they create.

1. sister A - this one I have been NC with for 3 years (best decision ever) because her behaviour was so extreme. Relieved I instinctively made the right decision.
   
   
2. sister B - another other sister I have endured and tried to manage - but have now decided NC is the only way.
   
   
3. My MIL who has been a vicious cow to me for 30 years since we first met when I was 17. She has been "nicer" to me in the last few years - with thro me the odd bunch of petrol station chrysants....as she needs me onside in her deteriorating old age (she is also an alcohlic)
   
   
4. A new boss at the place I worked for 23 years who overwork and bullied me to the extent that I end up resigning with severe menatl and physical health issues.
   
   But as of today they are gone. I am just left managing the fall out - my own self esteem and the weak PA excuse for a df/dh that is my husband.
   
   Maybe I am the common denominator ? Are they attracted to me? Or am I just unlucky to have been wrestling this lot for so long?

[Somethingtodo]

Thankyou badbalding - yes I believe that I did take the time, as you say, to explain very well each of the EIGHT separate "misunderstandings" that this one poster, W, spuriously assumed from the thread - although everyone else was able to keep track.

I also think that I did this diplomatically when faced with this level of unprovoked combative hostility from nowhere:

"Fact is you lied to your friends to cover up what your sister said, hoping that going NC with sis would ensure the lie wouldn't get back to them, am I right?

However it seems like W requires yet another (a 9th!) explanation to satisfy her needs on my story - so hear you go:

"You said she exposed minutiae of your mother's Will - by this I assumed that she told a hidden truth - which you then tried to cover up by telling your friends she lied. ('this is not the case') sorry to put you on the spot OP but I think that's a fair interpretation of the words you used to describe what happened."

You have assumed wrongly yet again and jumped to another erroneous and spurious interpretation. No hidden truths and no cover ups.

And a resounding "Yes" to your earlier pondering (below) - this kind of behaviour - interfering with other peoples children is very suspect and highly inappropriate and distressing for any child and the parents of that child.

"I have had to back right off for fear of messing with the little one's heads even though I know I did nothing wrong. I have even told them as much, that I will see more of them when they are older etc because my involvement in his life right now is difficult (but always there if you need me kind of thing) - no doubt that action in itself was read by the narc as some kind of manipulative thing to say "-

[Somethingtodo]

*here

[springydaffs]

What's happened here? Things seem to have got in a terrible pickle. Or mess, should I say.

It does look, Willk, that you are being blinded by your own very painful experiences. I also have a family situation that has cut me to the quick and I am struggling to recover - i can misread situations I come across that have a similar flavour: I can't think straight, my reaction is so strong, the situation too triggering. In this instance, I do think you have misread OP's position.

Some families are just so desperately painful. I think the pain of that can send us a bit mad all on its own (speaking for myself, anyway).

[WillkommenBienvenue]

"You said she exposed minutiae of your mother's Will - by this I assumed that she told a hidden truth - which you then tried to cover up by telling your friends she lied. ('this is not the case') sorry to put you on the spot OP but I think that's a fair interpretation of the words you used to describe what happened."

You have assumed wrongly yet again and jumped to another erroneous and spurious interpretation. No hidden truths and no cover ups.

I have not 'jumped to another erroneous and spurious interpretation'. Re-read what you wrote - how you put this out there to everyone on the internet. Anyone could read it the way I read it. I'm just the only fool who stuck my neck out and mentioned it. What exactly did your sister do wrong? Cos apart from feeling ostracised (which she was because you all had a family conference about it) and disclosing stuff about your Mum's will I can't see anything here.

Your manner towards everything I have said has been hostile and defensive OP and it's used up the whole of this thread - just because of ONE opinion of ONE poster about ONE of your narcs - you flew completely off the handle at me.

If you want to be deliberately ambiguous about the facts then you won't get any clear advice on here from anyone, you will be misunderstood and the normal response to a misunderstanding is 'oh yes, I see' or 'let me explain'... not your dismissive, patronising and downright nasty attacking response.

If you don't want to tell people what your sister really did then say so. It is very hard to understand your position from the outside looking in.

[WillkommenBienvenue]

It would seem that for some reason her story about her sister has touched a nerve with you

No. I mentioned my story because OP didn't see the potential consequence of going NC with someone in such difficult circumstances. I had hoped foolishly that she might see that sometimes it can be damaging and couldn't see what her sister had done that was so bad - which is why I asked questions before making any judgment.

It was her response to my post that has set this whole thing off. My post was questioning, it was asking her to look a little deeper at things and I was hoping she could perhaps justify her actions a little more, say with an example of extreme behaviour. But that didn't happen. I was attacked for asking a couple of questions and have continued to be belittled and sneered at by her since then.

I'm not particularly bothered but I won't have people say I'm the one that's 'been touched' because I think the opposite is the case. My questions have touched a nerve in OP that is far more sensitive.

[badbaldingballerina123]

Will what makes you think the Op didn't see the potential consequences of going nc ? Why do you think it is damaging to go nc ?

[WillkommenBienvenue]

Honestly what made me think she didn't see the consequences was the way her language seemed to gloss over what had actually happened (hence my questions) and dismissive attitude about her Dsis. Everyone knows that in bereavement a lot can be said and big mistakes can be made and the fact that OP had lost both her parents very traumatically (as did her sisters) made me feel it pertinent to point out that a)Dsis behaviour could be a byproduct of the bereavement and b)Dsis and all the family will be feeling vulnerable and volatile and c)If they were feeling volatile AND the disclosures/perceived ostracisation made Dsis feel worse than she already did then it could damage her.

I don't know how tough this woman is - maybe she's fine. But sudden death of a parent (previously suicidal) followed by feeling ostracised is not a good combination for mental wellbeing. And yes, it did kind of happen to me, that's how I know so much about it from various brochures and leaflets that have been thrust my way.

I have since looked at OP's other threads and it seems she has other issues so I appreciate that she might not have the headspace for all this and probably just wanted to come on and vent about the narcs in her life without going into it too much. I just couldn't join in with that.

[Somethingtodo]

Three posters - Springy, Garlic & Bad - (in addition to myself) have independently and objectively flagged to you that this story has clearly been a trigger for you and through your subsequent emotional state you continue to misread the situation.

You have assumed throughout that my narc sister is distressed (as you are) at being NC with me. This is not the case - we are both relieved by this arrangement.

You have erroneously declared that my sister was ostracised by the family - RTFT - this has never happened.

Yes my sister lied about being ostracised, lied about being a victim and lied about the details of my mother 's complex will to anyone who would listen. Fortunately most people know her of old and have seen her narcy, deluded, vicious behaviour many times before - so they just nod and try to escape. Though, in these instances they did chose to pick up the phone to alert me that she was on another roll.

You say that "My comments have tried to be inquiring and helpful, nothing else. The way you interpret them as combative is your own choice."

This is your first post to me (below) - please can you explain where this is "inquiring and helpful" - and how it can be seen as anything but combative?

"Fact is you lied to your friends to cover up what your sister said, hoping that going NC with sis would ensure the lie wouldn't get back to them, am I right? This is what's probably lost you your closest friend, not your sister's disclosure."

[badbaldingballerina123]

I agree that it seems you think the sister in this scenario is as distressed as you are. You also seem to keep pressing the Op to justify her Decision to go nc.

Nc isn't a punishment , it's a choice that people are forced to make when attempts to resolve things have failed. It is rare in my experience that people really want to do this. They usually still love their relative and wish things were different. I have had to do something similar. My relative does not have any boundrys and is a negative presence in my life. She has no understanding of why I don't want a relationship with her and she can not comprehend what she has done .

[WillkommenBienvenue]

I'm not distressed at all, I can handle my own stuff - I'm distressed by the fact that OP jumped down my throat because I didn't agree with everything she said and urged a bit of caution. I shared a personal story and she just rubbished it and everything else I said. That was just plain rude. If she didn't want to tell the full story she should have said that clearly and I would have backed off with the questioning but yes it was important for me personally to ensure that she understood the potential consequences of going NC with someone under certain circumstances because of my own experience which led to tragedy upon tragedy and I don't regret doing that. It was well meant.

Having read her other threads I see now that she's not good at making her boundaries clear regarding other peoples behaviour and perhaps that's where the problem lies - rather than objecting to the behaviour she attacks the person doing the behaviour and that just results in endless drama.

But perhaps not. I don't know her or her 4 narcs.

[badbaldingballerina123]

Will are you not responding to the ops post to you at 02.03 ?

[WillkommenBienvenue]

OK ballerina

This is your first post to me (below) - please can you explain where this is "inquiring and helpful" - and how it can be seen as anything but combative?

then to quote myself "Fact is you lied to your friends to cover up what your sister said, hoping that going NC with sis would ensure the lie wouldn't get back to them, am I right? This is what's probably lost you your closest friend, not your sister's disclosure."

Taken out of context yes it's combative but it was also a question ('am I right?') but the rest of the paragraph reads as follows

This is what's probably lost you your closest friend, not your sister's disclosure. Not blaming you for this, it sounds like it was a mess with confidences breached etc and you wanted to do what was the right thing at that time for everyone. But the pain of being excluded when you are still grieving is immense and is akin to being bereaved all over again. I'm not saying you pander to your sister but start from a point of understanding that perhaps she's not as narc as you think she is, but desperate to get her family back.

Which is NOT combative.

And all I had to go on was this:

When I went NC with my other sister a few years ago...this is what happened....she homed in 4 close friends of mine and told them the most ridiculous stories about how she was ostracized, victimized etc and we were all jealous of her as she "was the most like our Mum" who had just tragically died suddenly at 62....she also went thru intensely private minutiae of our Mother's will with them.

I had to somehow clear up this mess by saying to my friends - that is not the real story but I will also not be telling it to you either as it is inappropriate so you will have to trust me on that. 3 friends were fine with that they had only seen the NC sister on that one occassion .....

Was my analysis of OP's story that off the mark, did I really deserve that flaming? I could have used my words more wisely and not put in the 'Fact is' bit but I'm sorry I'm not a writer and not bloody perfect. The intent behind the words is more important.

She's stated that the sister lied about being victimised and ostracised - but I would argue (if I can still be arsed at all) it's something that can be perceived very easily - people can be made to feel like that very easily and all it takes can be a few misplaced words or some mild mental health issues. As far as I could see at the time of the post she had done very little to deserve NC.

OP has now finally stated that she did LIE about the Will, when in the earlier post that I was responding to she stated that she WENT THRU... MATTERS WITH THEM. The two are very different things - I interpreted that going through something means telling them fact.

Am I still not forgiven for what is essentially poor communication and misunderstanding? Or am I still projecting and wounded?

Good god this is getting ridiculous. Nobody allowed to misunderstand, misinterpret anything here?

And I have RTFT OP. Wish I never had though.

[Somethingtodo]

"Fact is you lied to your friends ..... "

Yep - your unsubstantiated comment is very inflammatory and absolutely deserves a flaming....and no, just removing "Fact is.." from the front, as you suggest, would not have made it any less offensive.

I think that I have managed my boundaries pretty effectively with you in this instance. Stalking me on other threads?? - what very oddball and bizarre behavior......

[Meerka]

something if you wish to report a poster for posts that come over as hostile and argumentative, you can.

I hope that you can find a good place to stand on and not be moved from, when it comes to dealing with people so selfish as to cause a great deal of needless pain. Good luck

[Somethingtodo]

Thank you Meerka - yes I will do this.

[springydaffs]

This argument has/become rather polarised I think. There is a lot of anger and hurt flying about, which is par for the course when narcs are around, they cause endless - and I mean endless - high level chaos, damage, drama. The point comes when you just shut down, unable, and unwilling, to take any more. You don't want to take it apart because you've truly had enough on a deep level.

At that point, any reasoning, justifying the NARC's behaviour, is extremely unwelcome. The snapping shut reflex is a survival reflex. Prodding at it with a stick will be met with hostility, no place or space for social niceties.

Willk, you have to leave this. Clearly, your situation has been extremely painful and tragic. But you've said your piece, let it lie. It is not fair to attempt to resolve the complexities of your situation by using Op's situation to do it, even though the details appear similar. You make a good point about eg bereavement (it was a help to me because my hideous family situation has bereavement in the mix) but your are forcing the point. Please don't. What is appropriate for you and your situation may not be appropriate for someone else. It's enough to say it, but leave it now.

[GarlicGiftsAndGlitter]

Good post, Springy. One of the overriding features of relationships with sociopathic-type people is a lack of recognition & respect for others' boundaries. This tends to afflict those of us with 'fleas' as well as the fundamentally mis-wired.

In a further expression of the same thing, we might find ourselves trapped by rigid thinking: this can lead us to suppose our viewpoint is the only valid one. Realistically, though, opinions are rarely wrong or right, and emotions never are; they're just emotions.

A big part of recovery is learning to appreciate others' points of view, and respecting their right to have them.

[WillkommenBienvenue]

Willk, you have to leave this

I have been trying to leave it but everyone keeps bringing it up and questioning what I said, where, why, it's wrong, it's right, voicing their views about me - fine if you voice your views but I have a right to reply and that's all I'm doing - responding to others. If you don't want me to respond then don't comment on me and what I say - change the effing subject!

And please don't patronise me by telling me I'm hurt etc, I used my story to illustrate something that's all. If I'm hurt by anything it's the way OP attacked me and the way everyone else piled in.

This was a misunderstanding, about what OPs sister said and whether OP lost her friend because she tried to cover up and how I interpreted OP's story. All the rest has been me responding to others misinterpreting me.

So can we talk about OP and her 4 narcs now please?

Jeez.

[WillkommenBienvenue]

Stalking me on other threads?? - what very oddball and bizarre behavior......

No, just research. We were on a thread together which I remembered and checked. I also wanted to understand a bit more about you and why you were responding like this. Stalking is a nasty abusive thing to do involving following someone round and making them nervous and the word should not be used lightly.

It really does help to focus your boundaries on behaviours rather than on people - accurately. I was not stalking you are over dramatising it.

Have a good read of Garlic's post below.

[badbaldingballerina123]

Really good article about fleas garlic. I've struggled with this an awful lot. I don't act out the defensiveness but I definitely feel like doing.

[InnocenceAndExperience]

I was struck by that article as well - especially the bit about being supervised at work. It took a very understanding line manager for me to calm down about appraisals ans supervision.

I still find it hard to accept praise for fear of the 'consequences' (ie whats the catch? Who's going to 'take me down a peg').

[Somethingtodo]

Badbalding - I relate to your comment from last Fri:

"We are conditioned to cater to these weirdos"

I think that is true in my case - I have tolerated poor behavior for far too long. Something I will try to teach my children is dont ignore your gut emotions - walk away from these toxic people whether they are family or not.

Also the only good thing to come out of my Mother's death was the confidence/freedom to go NC with narc sisters.

Even though my Mother was well aware of repeated difficult behavior from sisters (she also suffered their abuse) - she never wanted her family splintered and I respected/tolerated that in her lifetime. On reflection I would not do that again.

[badbaldingballerina123]

I too have done far too much tolerating. Like you I tolerated unpleasant siblings as not to upset my mother. Like you that changed when she died. I also tolerated awful in laws so as not to upset my ex husband. I've tolerated a friends awful husband so as not to upset my friend.

That's a lot of tolerating over a lot of years. I wouldn't do it again.

[Somethingtodo]

Have you seen this quote - attributed to Meryl Streep? Wish I had done this earlier in life ...

“I no longer have patience for certain things, not because I’ve become arrogant, but simply because I reached a point in my life where I do not want to waste more time with what displeases me or hurts me. I have no patience for cynicism, excessive criticism and demands of any nature. I lost the will to please those who do not like me, to love those who do not love me and to smile at those who do not want to smile at me.
I no longer spend a single minute on those who lie or want to manipulate. I decided not to coexist anymore with pretense, hypocrisy, dishonesty and cheap praise. I do not tolerate selective erudition nor academic arrogance. I do not adjust either to popular gossiping. I hate conflict and comparisons. I believe in a world of opposites and that’s why I avoid people with rigid and inflexible personalities. In friendship I dislike the lack of loyalty and betrayal. I do not get along with those who do not know how to give a compliment or a word of encouragement. Exaggerations bore me and I have difficulty accepting those who do not like animals. And on top of everything I have no patience for anyone who does not deserve my patience.”

[badbaldingballerina123]

Excellent.