Staying together for the kids?

[BadBadDadDad]

Good evening, I'm desperate and in need of someone elses point of view. I'm 35 years old man and I have 2 sons (5 and 3 years old)
I have been married for 10 years.
My marriage "finished" 4 years ago, we live in seperate rooms, eat our own food, dont wear wedding rings, my wife hates me I think and I dont like her much either, but we have 2 kids and I dont want to be part time dad. Once she got fed up and went to Italy for 1 year - I went through agony without the kids :( when she said she's coming back I was just happ to have my kids back full time.
We behave nicely around kids. I take them out on my own so we spend lots of time together. Thing is: I feel dead inside, I feel trapped and stuck, she says that if I leave I wont see my kids, that she will say in court that I had affairs, been bad father etc etc. I'm thinking maybe lets stay together until boys r 16/18 years old? I dont know.....
I cant see such young children dealing with nasty divorce, bitter mother and part time dad.
She's a part time dentist and doesnt earn enough I think to live on her own. Is staying for the kids good idea?

Btw your dcs are just as likely to resent you staying as by doing so you are creating the very condition that will make home life, their home life a misery. Even if you manage to stay the 'best dad possible' for them.

Honestly... i'm really touched...
What a wonderful forum it is...
I really thought that everyone will laugh - wife hates me and I dream of leaving... I appreciate every single comment... It really does put things into perspective...
I'm just worried that even though by law I will have rights as a father, my wife will make things difficult, cancel my visits at the last moment, become bitter, tell them I hate them, just be really difficult... It scares the life out of me.... Anybody been through divorce with "toxic" co parent? Also... I know its silly but I'm worried about my parents.... They push hard for me to stay in this marriage - even though they dont like my wife, they told me not to leave and god forbid dont even try to meet anybody! They will hate me too.... I'm a 35, adult and feel like a trapped little boy...

My parents stayed together " for the children" . It was terrible, constant atmosphere.
I really suggest you don't do it, it's better for children to have happy parents separated than 2 miserable ones who are together.

Children are happy with happy parents

Please do not continue like this, your boys will be fine

Your wife sounds extremely unreasonable, you certainly need to make sure she doesn't take them out of the country. Sounds drastic but could you move their passports? I would tell her that you have no intention of her disappearing with YOUR children for however long she feels like it.

There is nothing to stop your STBXW being unreasonable. However, that's not a reason to do nothing, more a reason to get good legal representation, get prepared and anticipate hostility. As for your parents, I think you have to present them with a more assertive and decisive version of yourself. If you appear in two minds, people tend to assume the problems are minor and/or will try to change your mind. If you tell them it's a real crisis, you've made a decision and you need their support they may change their tune. If not, at least you will have your self respect.

Do you have any friends you might be able to confide in to get some more support? It sounds awful having not only your wife telling you you must stay but your parents too. I think they are all being incredibly selfish.

I think it is absolutely possible for you to have a good and healthy close relationship with your children, but it is going to take a lot of strength. I think you will find that once you believe that you are doing what is best for them. And by leaving you will be, you will be teaching them love and respect for the self as well as showing them they do not have to live in a horrible atmosphere with parents who despise each other.

Even if you are pleasant day to day, kids will pick up on how you feel anyway.

If you leave you get to show them what a healthy, happy household can look like, even if it is not every single day of the week. That will mean a lot to them.

Thank u so much... So much...
I dont really have true real friends, just work mates, they have a bit different views on life, all make good money have wifes + a lover etc.
not my cup of tea. I cant even handle my own wife.
Anyway.... I just wanted to say thank u as all of u here r my support.
I'm sorry if I'm being weak or annoying or pathetic but really need all the advice I can get.

If u dont mind me carrying on....
We have seperate finances with my wife, just share some bills, but eat seperate food etc. we rent and we live in London so property market is very expensive - she says that she doesnt have any money, cant afford anything, cant live on her own so I will have to pay a lot of money to her etc. thats worrying, i'm not that rich to rent 2 flats and pay bills x2.
she always says that every time I mention divorce:/ dont want boys to be poor so obviously I would have to somehow get the money. She's a part time dentist but I have no idea how much she earns, we live seperate lives. Stuck.

The thing with my parents is that I have 2 brothers-both divorced and both not very close with their children post divorce so my parents believe thats whats going to happen. They believe that family should stay together. End of story.
I dont want to hurt them either as they r very old. They kind of made me really believe that my sons r better off living with me snd my wife as a family.

You will get some proper advice from a solicitor but she could work full time for a start!

Feeling your pain, you are not alone and can get great advice on here.

Bad your parents seem to be toxic abusive bullies who just want their own way.

Shot in the dark here but are they also the thought who care a lot about appearances.

the *SORT who care a lot about appearances

You really need to get some legal advice. It's true that, post divorce, the living standards of all parties tends to go down because of the simple fact that it's more expensive to run two homes than one. If you're in London, that's certainly the case. However, people do it all the time, make the adjustments, relocate, downsize etc and there is a long way between 'well set up in London' and 'poverty'. A fair financial settlement - which a solicitor could explain to you - would mean that both of you could start fresh and cement the separate lives you're already living. Spousal maintenance is not normally part of the picture when the spouse in question has work already. A fair approach to shared parenting is also part of the discussion.

How your brothers have chosen to behave towards their DCs or how their exes have behaved is not your problem. Neither is it the template for all divorces.

This is your life. As my friend likes to say 'it's not a rehearsal'.... you don't get to go around again. Currently you are denying yourself a life out of a combination of fear, obligation and guilt (to use a well-worn cliché here). Everyone else seems to take precedent over you.... parents, wife, DCs ... and whilst you may think that makes you noble, it's an unhealthy and thankless way to live long-term.

If you do nothing else, please get legal advice and get informed

You know that your wife is using the 'oh poor me' card to make you stay don't you?
You won't have to pay anything up her but you will have to pay for your children IF and ot if they do stay with her the majority of the time.
Could you see yourself having then half if the week? Could you organise yourself to do the drop off and pick ups at school/nursery for 2 days?
For the rest, your DW will have to get organised and yes it might mean finding a job, moving to a different area etc. just like it us for yourself.
But then that's what people who divorce do everyday. It's hard, it's probably a drop in standard of living but us it really worth a lifetime if misery???

What is worrying me is that you are taking decisions based on what you gave seen with your brothers wo really realising that it disengaged have to be like this. That's why it's so important that you get some legal advice. You will learn what is and what ysnt realistic, what us z a what isn't possible.
My worry seeing what you are telling us is that you are a peoe pleaser. You want to keep everyone happy, your DW despite her terrible behaviour, your parents. All that at the expense if your happiness and well being and ultimately the one if your dcs. You will have to learn to be more assertive and defend YOUrSELF instead of thinking about everyone else first.

You sound like a decent man. Your children will have a more filling relationship with you if you are single and happy. Trust me, (I really speak from experience here), they will be relieved when you split.

Your wife can't dicate the terms of your contact with your DC. That will have to be court ordered I'm guessing. She will also have to disclose her income and savings - as will you. Your situation might not be as dire, financially, as you think!

Your parents opinion is just that. An opinion. This is your life to lead, not theirs. You are not your brother and your outcome on divorce will not be the same.

I hope you meet someone nice and have a happy family - with your DC very much included, in the future.

Start from the basis that you want 50/50 minimum. One week on one week off or whatever mix could work for you and the kids. There is no reason on earth that you won't get that given the facts as you have presented them.

Keep your mouth shut,
put on your big boy pants,
get properly informed,
stop listening to scare stories,
get your hands on kids passports,
make sure your lawyer knows she's a flight risk,
store copies of paperwork out of the house,
start looking for alternative housing suitable for you and kids on your new budget, near school etc
work out what you want and what you'd be prepared to accept,

sort out your financial information,
have your house valued.

Sorry I seem to have killed the thread. I meant keep your mouth shut in terms of your wife and your family while you get your ducks in a row.

Wonderful people - I have spoken to my wife. I asked how she sees us living in 10 tears time and asked whats going on in her head in general. Her reply was rather hostile:
She asked when I'm going to pay the bills as british gas send reminders, then she said that boys need new this and new that and in the added that she can give me divorce any time I like but I have to pay for 2 places and children staying with her. She then got up and left. Went well.

Then I called my parents to explain to them my divorce thoughts - they both almost had a heart attack and started crying on the phone and explaining to me that children need their father. How do I see leaving them? Etc etc. went well

I feel weak - I need somebody on my side. Feeling miserable today :(

The one person you need supporting you is a lawyer. A good one that will be able to fight your corner.
And a friend in RL. Maybe one that has gone through divorce himself?

Both reactions were to be expected tbh. But your wide us wrong saying that you will have to support two houses. And your parents are wrong thinking that it means you won't see your dcs again.

You need information. That will give you strength. Strength from knowing your rights, strengths from knowing what you can ask/demand. And doing something, even if it's very small, will give you strength too.

Maybe have a read in here about the experience if other people on here. I know they are mainly women but the struggles might/will be quite similar. See how much if a difference divorce has made. And how much happier they are.

You can't keep living your life letting others pull your strings because other people tend to be thinking of themselves rather than you. Parents less worried about you losing touch with your children, perhaps than themselves having less access to grandchildren? A wife more worried about losing a source of funds than the wellbeing of children?

So when you can't please anyone, please yourself. Please - as the PP says - get legal advice. Being well-informed, and by someone who has no emotional connection to any of the people in this drama, will give you confidence

Cant thank u all enough....
For your replys and for your support.
Thank u

Does anybody know good family solicitors in London?

I'm scared that I will see them just on saturday for few hours and thats it... I'm so scared that they will cry when I will pack my bags...
I dont know...
Its a lot to digest

Both your parents and your wife are being utterly fucking selfish,are only thinking of themselves and have their own agenda. Cog is right.

Your parents emotionally blackmailing you like that is disgusting. My DM did it to me so i know exactly what its like.

If you have a look on the Law Society website there is a search function that might help you. Realise that, when you think about a future as a lone parent, it might feel daunting. However, your DW managed to spirit you children away from you in spite of you being married so staying married doesn't seem to offer much in the way of security. A more formal shared parenting arrangement that can be legally enforced if necessary could be the answer. It would also prevent your DCs having to grow up hostage to marital problems

I had a meeting with a solicitor this morning, I didnt "click" with her...
I dont know how to explain it, but she was very weird with me?
She roughly explained that "friendly" no fault divorce could take even 2 years. Divorced based on adultery 6 months(sounds better even though nobody cheating in our marriage)
She explained child meintenance and I was happy with that as I can easily afford payments. She said the kids will most likely stay with my wife, I was thinking about them living with me and my wife be the one who visits them.... Anyway...
My head is spinning.

There's nothing to stop you getting a second opinion or finding a solicitor that you feel more of an affinity with. Were you honest about the state of play, the hostility, the unannounced departure/kidnapping to Italy etc?