Lovely DSD been placed in our care by Social workers... What next?

[SilenceOfTheSAHMs]

DP has Parental responsibility order for her and has court ordered weekly access (FRI teatime from school until Sunday night).

Last friday, DSD was due to get off her school bus at end of our road and come to our house. Bus came and went and she was not on it. DP made calls to school but no one could give answers.
15 minutes later DSD appeared on doorstep flanked by two Social Workers.
It turns out they have come to get her from school as DSD and her other siblings (Not DP's children) have been taken into care.
Because DP and I know the social workers (We have liaised with them in the past due to poor DSD's chaotic home life) they have placed her with us.
She is doing fine, and appears to have settled in well.
However, it does not look like the Mum is getting them back anytime soon and our (lovely, helpful) social worker has told us we need to apply for permanent residency. She has said she will send us a list of solicitors.
Then what? Will it cost us a fortune in court fees?
I have tried googling this but the words seem to swim :(
We just want permanent stability for the girl, she's been through so much at the hands of her DM. Think neglect, emotional unavailability, violent partner, drug use.
Has anyone else been through similar?
Would love to hear and stories about it, Mine and DP's heads are swimming!
Many thanks in advance.
NB Social workers will not disclose reason or section children were removed under.

Ah how things change.

My DSS2 was beaten to the point of hospitalisation by his mum's then-DP (now her DH but that's another story! Forever known as The Arse to me now.......) when he was 14, this was 13 years ago.

SS had had no previous involvement with the family despite there having been "issues" with the arse and DSS1 involving violence which had resulted in DSS1 moving in with his GF's family at 17, but at the hospital they said he couldn't go home (even though the arse had run away to his mummy in another part of the country at the time ) as my DH's Ex-W was still in touch with him by phone.

We offered to take him temporarily and SS jumped at that, even though my DH didn't have PR as they hadn't been married when he was born!

And basically that was that. He moved into our tiny boxroom and stayed there for 3 years until we helped him to move into independent living. No further checks by SS, nothing, I think they were just relieved to have him off their hands

OP, if her Mum's family are good people, surely they will now be able to see that it's no longer a good idea for her to have residency - would they be willing to work with your DP now? I am wondering whether it might be a good idea to get in touch with them and say that you hope they can work together to make sure the siblings stay in touch and that eventual contact with Mum is supported. It might make all the difference if her own parents and financial supporters tell her that no, they won't help her out with contesting residency and urge her to accept this as the best solution.

I'm so glad she's with you and you haven't had to battle that for starters.

I don't see how she can be 'in care' when she actually has another parent with pr. surely she has just been taken to her dad?

You need answers off of SS and a pp is correct, your DH has PR so he has the right to know exactly what the situation is with his dd.

Let's keep our fingers crossed that thus all goes smoothly and with legal aid. It bloody well should!

We have spoken to our case worker. It turns out SS are taking the ex to court for the children to be permanently removed. DP is, as her father with PR order, part of this case and is entitled to legal representation which will not cost us anything.
DSD is off to visit her DM and other siblings tonight.
DP and the grandparents do get on and are working together as best they can.
Many thanks for everyones input, you have all be great

Castlemilk the grandparents of DSD know that their GD is better off with us. It took them a while to admit their daughter's shortcomings but they have seen the light recently.

If things are tight financially there is money available to support you through emergency grants and funds your sw should be able to advice on that.It costs a fortune to keep a child in local authority care they will be very willing to support you with basics if that's what is needed.

Am pleased to hear that silence
Though I doubt it will get into care proceedings while you two can offer a safe home, your partner can now access legal aid which is great.
I hope it works out for you all.

Thanks everyone who has contributed to my thread, things are looking a bit more organised now, we have seen a solicitor and financially we are ok.

DSD is in her room, painting her nails, bless her. :)She's doing fine. I feel for her siblings. :(

Hi Silence I am a retired social worker/manager with 30 years experience, all in Children's Services. I retired in 2004 but worked independently till 2009 and dealt with many cases like yours.

I'm glad to hear that the LA have initiated care proceedings (and you are quite wrong wildthings) about the fact that there won't be need for care proceedings because the child has been placed with her father and step mother. These proceedings are necessary so that the mother cannot simply "re-claim" the child at any point in the future, as she could as at present she shares PR with the child's father. Also there are the other children's futures to be taken into consideration.

You have mentioned Residence order (RO), but I would urge you to consider making application for a Special Guardianship Order (SGO) because this is a much better way of securing the child's future. I say this because SGOs limit the birthmother's attempts to vary the Order to return the child to her. This can only be done if she gets "leave of the court" which means that the Judge needs to be convinced that her situation has changed significantly since the time the SGO was made. This is not the case with a RO and the birthmother could apply to vary that Order in her favour at any time. Also in ROs PR is still shared to some extent with the birthparents. With SGOs this is not the case - there are only 3 things the holders of the SGO are not allowed to do without the consent of the birthmother......a) change the child's surname b) take the child out of the country for longer than 3 months and c) apply for an Adoption Order.

Additionally the SGO legislation is comprehensive and places a duty on the LA to carry out an "assessment of need" on the applicants, and this can include financial provision both in the present and the future.

LAs tend to prefer ROs because they are less onerous for them but the SGO is by far the better route to secure this child's future.

Having said all that, it seems strange that a parent should apply for any order to enable him his child to have her permanent home with him. Usually these cases are dealt with in the family courts, when parents are separated and cannot agree on the arrangements for the children. It used to be the case that one parent would be awarded a Residence order (meaning where the child/ren would have their permanent home) and the other parent would almost always be awarded contact. However this has now changed and the term Residence Order has been replaced with "Arrangements for Care of Children."

I would be interested to hear what Order has to be made (if any) for your DSD to have her permanent home with her father and yourself.

£215 for a child arrangements order I think.
Social services may not have a care order, they probably got mum's agreement (with persuasion)
Mum can oppose the arrangements order however social services will file a section 7 report and presumably will support you. If it's a choice between dad and foster care then unless dad is risky the courts will always say dad.
It shouldn't cost a fortune but it might be a bit stressful. Worth it though I assume?

I didn't read your later posts, sorry.
Nananina, the are no residence orders any more.

Nananina what are you on about, a parent cannot apply for an SGO.
I'm not wrong about the care proceedings either however I have no wish to derail the OPs thread by debating that with you. OP get legal advice and advice from a social worker who is currently working and up to date with legislation. Good luck again.

Eric - I think there is a confusion between private and public law here. I know that in private law Residence Orders have been replaced by "arrangements for care of a child." I believe however that it is still possible for non parents to make application for a Residence Order where the LA have instituted care proceedings. The LA won't have a Care Order (or any other Order yet) because the matter hasn't got as far as the final hearing and this can take several months.

wildthings sincere apologies - you are absolutely right a parent cannot apply for an SGO. I did actually say that I thought it strange that a parent should apply for any Order and did say I would be interested in the outcome as I couldn't quite get my head around how the matter would be treated in public law (given that care proceedings have been initiated) YES I agree that my knowledge may well be out of date - sorry if I have confused you OP. Would still be interested in the outcome.

No worries nana sorry to be the stroppy upstart!

Whoa, ladies! We are to see a solicitor, and have been in constant liaison with SW. DSD has got her personal effects here now so things a bit easier for her re having her clothes and hair stuff here. She has been attending school daily and we are in talks with Head and school nurse.
Her GPs (Her DM parents) are visiting later, they are devastated.
Will update this thread as things happen, Thanks all

That all sounds good. Hopefully it will all go through smoothly! It will be so, so much better for your lovely DSD to be with you both. She can have a better relationship with her mum too if she doesn't have to rely on her.

I hope you meant that the GPs are devastated by their daughters actions, not that DSD is going to be living with you? Bi thought they were on board with that? I hope so.

I hope that visiting her mum and siblings goes ok tonight, for everyone.

Nananina, I'm 99% sure that residence orders no longer exist in public or private law.

Chipping yes, they are very upset at their daughters actions which have led to this.

I partly feel for her mum, it can't be easy for her.

What a mess. The GPs are here now, and in tears :(

Oh I do sympathise Silence with the GPs - it's always awful when a son or daughter isn't caring for their own children properly. I did a lot of assessments of grandparents for permanent fostering and later for Special Guardianship Orders, and the difficult bit was that I had to be sure that the GPs would protect the child/ren from their own birthmother or father. This was so important because if the children had been removed because the birthparent(s) were abusing or neglecting the children, or maybe "failing to protect" then the GPs had to understand that they couldn't just let the birthparents take off with the children, or even have unsupervised contact.

Fortunately most grandparents (and I did a few assessments of aunts and uncles but mostly GPs) did absolutely understand the need to protect their grandchildren from their son or daughter (or the partners) although obviously there were issues of divided loyalties. Some GPs though blamed social workers for removing the children and it would become obvious that if the children were placed with them, they would allow them to go off with the parents who had been deemed unfit to care for them by the court.

Very often the child/ren were already placed with the GPs by the time I started my assessment and fortunately in all these cases, I was able to give a positive recommendation to the court. Would have been very difficult if this hadn't been the case, as sometimes the child/ren would have been there for some considerable time.

I did have to turn down some GPs as they refused to believe the medical evidence about their grand-son's injuries and that their daughter's partner was responsible (this had been established at a Findings of Facts Hearing) and the daughter was also in denial about the injuries and her partner, so it wasn't really a difficult decision. I couldn't give a positive recommendation for the final hearing to allow the GPs to care for their grandson because he wouldn't have been protected. Fortunately the baby was in foster care as the LA had also had concerns about the way the GPs were denying the medical evidence etc. The court agreed with my report and the baby was placed for adoption. Very sad as his injuries were quite severe.

There's no easy answers in these cases is there but the child's best interests need to be kept at the heart of the matter and then the rest has to fit around that...........you sound like a lovely step mom OP and so glad your DSD is happy with you and her dad.

It must be so difficult for the GP's - any chance the siblings could be placed with them?

Seabright there has been discussion of the other siblings residing with GP's, they were registered foster carers a few years ago so are in good stead to do so.

I'm cross again today, the sheer selfishness and refusal to comply with SS has resulted in this. Four children's lives turned upside down because of pure selfishness. The DM drinks heavily. She is 30 but looks 50. She is ravaged by heavy drinking and smoking. Her partner is a known class A user and SS reports we have seen attest to the fact the children have seen this :( The partner was involved in an extremely serious violent crime few years ago (was in all local and county newspapers) and only got out of prison for it 7 months ago. He did two years of a five year sentence.
Poor kids were dragged to prison every week to see him :(

He totally controls the DM of DSD.

She refuses to acknowledge his actions as being out of order and won't accept he has problems.

Oh, good grief! Surely SS won't even consider giving her any access in the future? Sounds like the GP's would be in a position to have the other siblings?

Of course she will have contact if the children want it. Contact is decided based on the children's interests and if the children are old enough to express themselves and not going to be adopted then it's rarely in their interests to stop any contact. Children are attached to their mothers usually, even the shit ones.

Ehric yes, The DCs are allowed limited, supervised access to the DM. DSD says she wishes to see her DM, and her wishes are respected. No matter what she has or in fact, hasn't done, she is their mother.

We find out tomorrow why they were taken in the first place. Or at least the section in which.

Meanwhile, The DM is lying and keeping information from the GPs. She says the Police and SS came out of the blue and took the DCs without even telling her why. I do not believe this. The GPs need to know so they can help! They are good honest people and deserve the truth.

We are planning an afternoon of baking later to keep her occupied. DP and I are at solicitors tomorrow afternoon. DP and I just want to get the ball rolling for her to be here permanently, she just is not safe at home.

I veer from angry at the DM, to sad for the kids, and then I get panicky at the though of DSD going back there.

Also, the DM and her Fuckwit DH have been trying to ring DSD on her phone (Which we confiscated at the advice of SS) we have screenshotted it and are to show it to ss/solicitor tomo.

And breathe, Silence! Many thanks to all.