What would you do if you thought your dp was an alcoholic?

[merrygoround]

Three weeks ago I asked my dp to leave, at the time because he was getting more and more nasty to me (in non-violent ways) and I was feeling at breaking point and needed some space. Also the atmosphere was not one I wanted dd (2 yrs) exposed to any longer, as I felt so drained from arguments and resentment that I knew I was not able to be the mum I want to be.

Anyway, it was a nightmare, but as each day passed after he eventually left a week later I began to see things about our whole relationship that I'd never realised before- denial, I believe they call it... to the point where I came to the conclusion that behind many of the problems was his drinking habit.

To cut a long story short I am now almost 100% convinced that he is an alcoholic - dependent on drink in an out of control way. But there is maybe 1% of me that wonders if I am over-reacting, and I wondered if anyone here has had any experience that may help me to cope. I have been to one Al Anon meeting, which despite its use of Higher Powers (a bit alien to me) I found really helpful, but I can't get to meetings very often and feel like I really want information from others who have been / are in similar situations.

Deegward, questions I asked myself over and over. A friend said to me once that it was not a question of how much is too much, but how much can YOU cope with? If the effects of the drinking, or the time away from you, or the feeling that you cannot rely on him are more than you can take, then you have a problem. One person may find that a one beer a night partner is too much for them to live with - another may choose to live with a very heavy drinker. But it is hard to be honest with ourselves. When we have invested in someone and love them and deep down know that they are not going to change then we try to deny how much we resent and dislike what they are doing.

I wonder if I could try out a thought. Until I just posted a few minutes ago I had decided that on London Marathon day I would deliberately take dd to a point on the route away from our home. For the last 5 years dp and I have watched the marathon as it runs right past our house. Our beloved local pub opens nice and early, and dp has an extra excuse to put a few more away. It is a real party atmosphere, the landlady hires a band and it is great fun. And I wanted to avoid it this year by going elsewhere, or perhaps to test dp's loyalty by seeing if he would join us somewhere else on the route, away from the pub.

I have a lot of work to do this weekend and a few hours off childcare would be a real blessing. So I thought perhaps I should ask (tell) dp that it is his turn to look after dd and get him to keep her with him for the morning while the runners go by and bring her back for lunch. Of course it would be understood that while he has her drinking is strictly under limits as we've agreed. If he can't stick to it he would have to bring her straight home (only 1 minute away so not a problem). Of course he'd be free to drink to his heart's content once she is home for lunch and I would look after her for the afternoon and rest of the day.

It seems reasonable to me, have I missed anything?

mgr,sounds good to me, and it will hopefully highlight to him the problem that he has. I like your way of thinking!!

Merrygoround

I think your plan is a good one, and if your husband is reasonable he'll take you up on the offer.

Its funny, when you were describing your husband's relationship with his 'pub', it could have been me talking about my ex. When we first met, it seemed great - he worked at this pub ocasionally as well, had a great circle of friends who also spent alot of time in there, good atmosphere, etc. But then, it became obvious that he spent every minute he could there, and snap! whenever we went out somewhere different, we would have to pop in to the 'pub' for a quick drink and to see everybody. However, a few months later, the leaseholders of the 'pub' moved away, and you guessed it, he was devastated, especially as he didn't really get on with the new leaseholder. But, lo and behold, he quickly adopted a new pub and the same old thing happened; he spent every spare minute in the place. His excuse was simply that he hated 'sitting at home' and at the time, I couldn't step back and think, well what about me?until things got really awful. You say that the pub for your husband could be the gym - in my situation, this wasn't the case. I noticed a pattern emerging - if anything slightly bad happened, my ex would go to the pub but drink even more than normal, sometimes to the point of unconsciousness. He then got another job in a busy bar in town and this became his new haunt and he basically combined this with his massive drinking sessions. Then the worst bit came when I was on the receiving end of his drunken temper, and that was when I'd finally had enough. Don't get me wrong - this thread is not intended to let you listen to my sob story - it all happened years ago - but the point I'm making is that only you can say whether it is the pub or the actual drink that your husband craves. For my ex, it was a bit of both - the pub provided company and comfort but the drink numbed his mind when he couldn't cope with life and thats when I realised that his problems went far deeper.

mushroom, thanks for your message. It has helped me to feel clearer. Dp is motivated by both the atmosphere and the drink, just as you described your ex. Obviously it beats drinking on a park bench. It also lends a respectability to his habit. And as many of those in there feel a similar attachment to alcohol, they give eachother implcit support - look at us, we're all OK, and we like a drink, so what's the problem? A few weeks before dp left I remember being in the pub and suggesting to his two main drinking mates that the three of them go out for a curry or something one night. I was not trying to be awkward, I just thought it would be nice for them. The suggestion was met with baffled looks - talk about lead balloons. Funnily enough I think dp would love to have something different to do (and he likes the lager in Indian restaurants).

Merrygoround

Has your husband any other interests at all? Or any friends that aren't connected to the pub? My ex had loads of friends in the pub, and socialised alot around the pub (darts/pool/quiz nights, etc) but he didn't have any close family and on his clearer nights admitted that that was why he craved the friendly pub atmosphere, as that felt like his family. Perhaps your husband felt like that before he met you, and basically can't now let go? I'm not trying to make excuses for him, I just wondered if there were some deep reason that he felt such an attachment?

HI all, I am in the process of trying to work out if my DP has drink problem. My marriage broke down almost 2 years ago & about 5 months later I met what i believed to be the most wonderful man...he accepted me for me & my two very young children. We don't live together but he stays frequently at weekends. He often drinks lager in the evenings but I am unsure if it is problematic as my ex was not a drinker at all so I have no comparision to make. however this weekend it actually came to my notice he drank throughout the day & thinking back he has done on numerous occassions but i wouldn't say he was drunk. on the bank holiday we went out for the day & he was very narky & snappy for most of it..i put it down to the early start. On arriving home & settled the children to bed & came down to find he had downed 4 cans in the space of 30 mins which really shocked me. That evening we had the most horrendous row & i started to think he's mood all day was down to the fact he had not been able to have a drink all day & the row was very much a drunken one from him. During the evening my mind got the better of me & for some reason i checked the 'drinks' cabinet & found the vodka bottle half gone too. I don't know why i did it but i poured the rest away down the sink. the next day i went off to work, came home to find him & all he's belongings & clothes gone (he was supposed to be staying for a week). there was no note & i haven't heard from him since....i'm very upset & wonder if i've stumbled on a secret that he can't deal with me finding out about which is why he went????
Am I being paranoid or do any of you with experience in this recognise any of what I've said?

dixie - my dh is not an alcoholic but my dad is and so I have been reading this thread. Some of what you have said does ring a bell, especially the part about drinking four cans in 30 mins this is what my dad does and it is quite frightening, almost like they are so desperate for that numbness.

Dixie
Your man sounds very like mine in some ways. DP does not normally binge , but if he has been deprived and drinking time is short then he will try to fit more in, and if under stress (often)will also drink more. He is, as you put it, narky and snappy when drink is not available. DP also drinks throughout the day, starting as soon as the pub opens at the weekend - 11.30am I think. If his beer is gone, despite not liking other drinks much, he will move on to whatever eles is available. He could NEVER leave a drink - even if I left half a glass of wine in a restaurant he would feel obliged to finish it up.

A leaflet I got from Al Anon said " the alcoholic drinks more than others, more often than others, and, above all, it means far more to him than to others. Drinking too much, too often, is not a matter of choice. It is the first sign of alcoholism." The bit about drinking meaning so much to the drinker really struck me.

It was a huge breakthrough for me to be able use the "A" word, and to describe him as "drunk", not just "tired" - it was part of breaking down my own denial. But it is also important to keep focussed on what behaviour is unacceptable - and make it clear to him. While my dp would not discuss his drinking, he could not deny that he was moody and unpleasant. But he could not explain why because of his denial. Trust your instincts on this one.

Mushroom- dp's lack of other interests has been a bone of contention throughout our relationship. The only other thing he does is watch TV - with a can!Oh and he doesn't mind eating out - curry and a beer preferably. I was always trying to get him interested in things, and if I was careful I might persuade him to do something, and he often enjoyed it. But the effort was too great - I remember trying to get him to come with me to a free performance locally - a friend had rung and raved about it and it was 5 minutes down the road. At first he refused, then he got angry because I kept asking, eventually he crossly agreed to come to get me off his back, then he sulked for 15 minutes while we there, before eventually realising that it was amazing. That evening in the pub he raved about it! I believe that he is a very bored person in some ways, but I've had enough of cajoling and begging for him to try new things.

And Dixie, how awful for you to be going through this, I hope you are coping. He may well want to come back, but if he wont talk about his drinking I would be very cautious.

Just want to get this off my chest. Feeling a bit of an idiot because I was allowing myself to think that maybe I'd got it wrong about dp. He spent a lot of time with dd over the weekend, and on Friday after our trip to see Sleeping Beauty. He was on good form, pleasant and polite to me, and she had a lovely time with him. He took her to get measured for shoes by himself, and took her to watch the marathon without me too.

I even, oh God, told him that I still loved him today before he left at 1pm after putting her to bed for a nap. He was meant to call me about coming round in the afternoon after she was awake. By 4.30pm I'd heard nothing, but saw him walking past our door on the way to the flat he is now living in. I called him over (knowing full well that he would be drunk) and reminded him that he'd said he would call. He fudged the issue and asked if he could come in and stay for a while. I said no, as he knew the rules (he is not to see her if he'd had more than 2 pints). He got aggressive and told me it was my rule, not his. He said I was evil and unreasonable. At least he didn't raise his voice. I told dd to say bye bye to daddy as he had to go - if looks could kill.

He went, and I felt like a fool. Fancy having told him I loved him earlier. I do in a way I suppose, but I have not lost my senses. I guess we had better stick to what works - mornings, or straight after work. And I shall retreat a bit further again.

Oh honey, I'm so sorry.

Oh, and I recognised a lot in that 'is it me? Is it just that I'm boring?' feeling you have about him preferring the pub. I'm so sorry about that too.

Utterly maddening aren't they? Don't feel bad for telling him you loved him merrygoround. Even if you never get back with him a part of you will always love him - and that's fine. He's your dd's daddy after all.
I always felt that I was the adult in the relationship I had with my ex., and just like with a kicking tantrumming toddler it's helpful if you can detach yourself from becoming too emotionally screwed up by his behaviour.
Give yourself another loving hug - you are doing just great.

Thanks goosey and MI

With each disillusioning experience I feel like I am seeing things more clearly - getting into focus. (I suppose that's what disillusion means now I look at it). I scribbled down my thoughts straight after I'd gone - and it was all so obvious. Would dp let a drunk near his child for more than a few minutes, or leave her alone with a drunk? Of course he wouldn't. But then of course 5 pints of lager (on an empty stomach) - as I'd guess that's what he'd had minimum in 3 hours drinking time- has no effect on him does it? Those bad moods, nastiness, tiredness, rattiness, flying off the handle etc are nothing to do with drinking. He even questioned the 2 pints rule on the basis that I was around - like I have nothing else to do apart from keep an eye on him. Yes goosey, I do feel like an adult to his child.

Earlier Dixie posted that her new man had accepted her for herself, and how great that felt. Well that's what I always felt about dp. But now I look back I think perhaps that was a sign of my own less than wonderful self esteem. After all, why shouldn't someone accept me for myself? Now at least I can feel myself getting stronger every day - I come back from a setback less confused and more determined. A really big thought hit me tonight after I put dd to bed though - what on earth would happen if anything happened to me? DP does not have parental rights as he has not applied for them and we are not married. Is it too dramatic to think about such things? I'm not sure I even have many options - my mum is in her late 70s, my brother lives in America and has no children, so who apart from dp could take responsibility I don't know. Is it too soon to be thinking like this? I don't have a will, and have always known I ought to get it sorted, so would these issues go in a will or somewhere else (assuming I could find a friend or relative who would agree to take on dd's upbringing)?

merrygoround - I think what you just wrote "After all, why shouldn't someone accept me for myself?" is incredibly important. You deserve to be in a loving relationship where both people are taking responsibilty for themselves. You are not some consolation prize , you are first prize and should be treated as such. I'm sorry that this is so hard, but I think you are being amazing, and that all the thinking you are doing will really help you come through this. Don't feel foolish or bad about anything, just look ahead. It sounds like you should make a Will though and think about your dd's future. That way at least you know it is covered and secure.

Thank you Wilbur and Dog Walker. This thread has been a real boost for me, and has made a HUGE difference to how I feel. Tonight I decided to start facing financial matters as I feel permanently anxious wondering how much money I'm going to have to live on. At least once I know I can start making mental adjustments. Was a bit shocked to try the Child Support Agency on line calculation of what dp would have to pay - it looks like it would be only £60 a week, from a take home pay of £400 a week. Sounds measly, and I'll phone tomorrow to check, but if it's true then I'd better not tell him yet! Will speak to a solicitor colleague about making a will - it's just a matter of making an appointment with a solicitor I suppose. Used a link on another thread to look at my tax credit position and that would improve, and I'd get the council tax discount.

I cannot see, even with a miraculous change of behaviour, that dp and I could possibly live together again in less than 6 months time, if ever. So should I just go for it now, and apply for things as if I'm officially a single parent? I think dp and I need a sensible talk as we need to formalise something. He has rent and bills to pay separately now, so I accept he will drop his contribution to this household, but would rather it was not to this minimal CSA figure.

He owes me money, which I think he should pay me back, plus I feel he should cough up for a babysitter for me once a week as I can't rely on him to do it if he is drinking in the evening. I don't want to leave him short, but feel unhappy at the idea that he is still spending £100 plus a week on drinking, if I can't afford to put money away for dd. Is the CSA a last resort in case you can't come to a civilised agreement? Feeling muddled.

Hi merrygoround

I think you are coping extremely well, with so much going on; as someone else said, the ups and downs of life with an alcoholic is normal - one minute everything is fantastic, but when they drink, it turns awful. I'm not sure about the financial matters - could you speak to the Citizens Advice Bureau, or maybe a single parent association (sure there's some in the phone book) who could at least give you basic advice about financial support you are entitled to.

Also, don't beat yourself up about telling your ex that you love him - this shows that YOU are the loving, supportive one in the relationship, prepared to show your feelings and give it a go, and he's the one jeopordising it. I don't mean to slag him off - I obviously don't know him and his 'reason' for drinking, but he's a grown man and you have to put yourself and your child first and it sounds as though your'e making plans to do that which is admirable.

Just thought I'd say I'm feeling much clearer - have decided to make single life official on a financial level. It will make it far more real. Found out that everything would go to dd anyway even without a will, so that is reassuring.

Mushroom, just posted and saw your message. Thanks for reminding me of probably the most important thing for me to remember - that with a drinker one minute everything is great, but after a drink it is awful. It is amazing how quickly I forget that.

Hi merrygoround,
You are definately an inspiration to anyone who may be reading this thread under similar circumstances. You seem - despite your despair - to be very logical and focussed on the longterm picture for yourself and your daughter. I think you are absolutely right to be seeking your independence financially - it is after all something that you can control. Emotionally you know you will have plenty more of those ups and downs. But with baby steps forward you'll both be fine.
Keep looking after yourself.

I've been crying my eyes out tonight. It is getting more and more real and the pain is getting worse. Tonight dp and I went out for a meal - the idea was to talk about where we go from here. I had things planned to say - and was hopeful that he was going to be doing his best to win me back. But the first sign that things weren't going to go smoothly came when he asked earlier in the day about doing dd's bath and I said it was fine as long as he'd not had more than 2 pints. He gave me a look that said I was being annoying, but when I pushed him said he thought it was reasonable. He didn't turn up for her bath.

So I had to get ready after doing everything - including getting sand out of everywhere after dd and her little friend had managed to spread it all over the place. So when dp turned up I still had to get stuff ready for the babysitter, and was feeling stressed. DP didn't even offer to help.

We ended up in a very noisy restaurant, and talking was a real strain. But the message was clear - he may have his faults but so do I. ie, even if he was a "git" - his words - then I was not much better. The fault of mine he named was grumpiness. The whole conversation was a nightmare. I had sworn I would not get angry, but I was in a rage in no time. I told him at one point that I had expected him to "woo" me, and he looked at me as if I was mad. "Why?" was all he said. Within no time he told me that I had obviously decided it was all over. Why do they get it so wrong - it was the opposite, I was hoping so much that he was going to make me believe things could be better.

He said he wanted to come home, but when I asked what he had to offer me he said "nothing".

I am almost beside myself with despair at this. Have you ever had a conversation where neither person said anything that they really wanted to say? It was almost surreal. I was waiting for even a tiny scrap of hope from him, something constructive, but he was determined not to give it to me.

Towards the end of the meal the 2 pint rule came up, and he finally told me that he thinks it is outrageous that I won't let him see his dd if he's had more than that. I went into one - by then I just wanted to be home and away from what was pure torture. On the way home we were arguing to the point where he shouted really loudly at me to shut the f* up, and I turned and walked the other way. When I'd calmed down I walked home (I'd hoped he would come after me and try to apologise), but by then it was obvious where I'd find him. I had to go into the pub to ask him for the babysitter's money as I had not got enough cash. He asked if I wanted a drink while I was there and I said I'd rather die than drink with him in that pub.

I got home, paid the babysitter and dissolved. I tried to ring his mobile, but (perhaps wisely) he didn't answer. So here I am, spewing it all out.

I feel so shit. I didn't want to lose my cool, but even before we'd left the house I was angry, mostly because he hadn't come back to do dd's bath - which said to me that drink was more important. I guess as long as he cannot accept this rule about 2 pints I may as well give up on any future.

I started this post sobbing, and now I've stopped. I guess things are the same as they were, only with another disappointment to add. And it IS more real, and I have to roll with the punches. I feel a bit more scared than before that dd is going to suffer, as perhaps part of why he has been so "good" with regard to her has been to make me want him back. And now he has even less chance I wonder what he'll do.

What makes this so hard is that I keep hoping he is going to tell me what I want to hear. Why can't I just let go? I think I don't want to give up hope, even though everything tells me this relationship is a disaster. Is it just fear of being alone? I haven't come to terms at all with this shock. I never wanted to be a single parent and part of me just wont accept that I am. It makes me feel so scared. How can I possibly parent a child by myself?

I am sorry this is so long. It is the nearest thing to therapy I have I suppose.

merrygoround, sweetheart, I'm at work on nights so daren't start a long reply to you as I may have to go out at short notice. I will reply tomorrow, but want to let you know I've read your post and am thinking of you. (((hugs again)))
goosey

Im so sorry Merrygoround- you obviously had so many hopes for tonight. I dont what to say to make you feel better but everything you have written sounds totally reasonable so I hope you can at least get some comfort from the fact that you are tackling the problem and not just letting him walk all over you.
Kizziex

Hi merrygoround,
I really hope you managed a good night?s sleep after your dreadful evening last night. For me, whenever I have had sobbing my heart out times, it has always been sleep that has refreshed my mind and given me necessary strength and new perspective.
As an outsider reading your post what struck me about your ex?s behaviour was that it was all so reminiscent of the way my ex. would approach the situation when we were in the throes of his drink-induced splitting-up.
I think it is perfectly typical behaviour of addicts of any sort to try to deflect blame onto someone else. My ex?s favourite was to say that I was always getting on my ?high horse? and thought myself better than anyone else. All a ruse ? albeit a sub-conscious ruse ? to get me to feel like the guilty one. A kind and gentle man when sober, he would say hurtful, publically humiliating things to me too. Sometimes I would start drinking myself, just a couple of cans would do it, so that I didn?t care so much about the frustration and anger I had.
Your 2 pint rule strikes me as perfectly sensible except for the fact that if he is addicted to alcohol it will be meaningless to anyone but you. It is a futile way of trying to ?control? the situation. I am supposing here, but what I imagine ? having made the same sort of rules myself ? is that he has told his pub mates about your rule and they have ridiculed it in typically bar-room way.
It is perhaps telling that he chooses to drink over his dd .But this doesn?t mean that he loves drink more than his dd ? just that it is a sign of his addiction that he physically ?needs? his alcohol more than he needs anything else. Others may see that from afar ? like his buddies and your friends ? but the difference is that they don?t really care. They don?t live with it as you do, and they don?t have your pain over it. As the sober one it is absolutely 100% up to you to be as honest with yourself as you can possibly be and to trust your own instincts for now and for the future. He is powerless over the hold alcohol has over him, but YOU have got the insight and the power to make choices for yourself and for your dd.
xxx goosey