Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Negative comments by sister -- how to handle.....really getting me down.

67 replies

Somethingtodo · 12/11/2014 18:22

We get on well - look after each others children etc - but she has an almost torettes (sp?) compulsion to put me down/burst my bubble at every opportunity....anything positive or say I do is criticised, questioned etc....I know it must be jealousy but it really hurts. She is always comparing my kids negatively with her friends kids (who are same age as mine - hers are younger)....so today for example I mentioned that my oldest had gone to visit a Uni and was looking at a specific course which triggered the following response "why is he doing that? I though that there were no jobs in that area...etc etc". Then when I mentioned that we planned to move back into central London when the kids depart...I got a whole boring litany of why I should move to Dorset instead - followed by a bitchy comment about looking like being some eccentric old dear in a city of youth. Most of the time I just manage it with silence and let he dig her hole deeper - but it really is getting to me.....has anyone a one-liner that I can volley back for these occasions?

OP posts:
Nomama · 16/11/2014 16:09

My usual responses do make work colleague pause and she does seem to think more.

The "OK! You win" meltdown was after she had accused our boss of promoting me for an easy life. Our boss (in a closed office) told us to behave, to act professionally, so I apologised. Colleague left the office muttering and said loudly something about my being cowed into submission, I said "OK! You win" and she just went ballistic. I still work with her and I still look her in the eye if she seems to be about to have a PA pop.

My sister has a bit of a track record, but we got to grips with the root cause of our problems recently. But I would have no hesitation using "And I love you too Grin"

InnocenceAndExperience · 16/11/2014 18:23

If your sister is younger than you she may think you are simply immune to her comments, having grown up with someone who was always a bit further ahead at school and being given a bit more responsibility by parents.

No excuse, though!

emotionsecho · 16/11/2014 18:45

Normally, they are so shocked initially that they just harumph and mutter and make excuses "Oh I didn't mean it like that, can't you take a joke, you know what I'm like, etc." Just remain calm and pull her up every time, make her see that you are not prepared to stand for it.

Hopefully she'll get bored sooner rather than later when she realises her comments are not having the desired effect of undermining you.

Moniker1 · 16/11/2014 19:27

Well you could just not give her any information to put you down about.
You told her what your DS was doing and that you planned to move.

instead just keep chat trivial and don't tell her anything. It's sad to not be able to chat but just don't feed her the ammo.

IrenetheQuaint · 16/11/2014 20:27

From what you say, OP, it sounds like distancing yourself a little from your sister and pulling her up on her nasty comments is a no-brainer. You have nothing to lose! Try it, gradually and carefully, and see what happens.

Somethingtodo · 17/11/2014 11:29

Moniker I already aim to give her zero info for ammo...she knew about the uni visit as I was looking after her children over night and I had to explain where ds1 was the moving thing came up as she asked me a direct Q -- I think I just need to be even more vague....

OP posts:
Moniker1 · 17/11/2014 12:58

I wonder what both you DCs twig of your relationship.
If you are constantly being made to look in the wrong, by her comments you won't appear very capable in their eyes, or else she could come over as an interfering moo.

Just wondering about the influence of her constantly unpleasant behaviour

Somethingtodo · 03/12/2014 19:12

I have just discovered she is a classic narc - now I just need to learn how to manage narcs
DSM-5 criteria for narcissistic personality disorder include these features:

Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance
Expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
Exaggerating your achievements and talents
Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people
Requiring constant admiration
Having a sense of entitlement
Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations
Taking advantage of others to get what you want
Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
Being envious of others and believing others envy you
Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner

OP posts:
CarbeDiem · 03/12/2014 19:39

I had a friend like this years ago.
Sounds very similar to your sister. If you told her the best news ever - she'd find a way to piss on it.
I snapped one day while we were in Town, I don't think it was anything particularly cuntish she said that day tbh but I'd had enough and screamed
''Do you have to be so fucking negative and bitchy about everything all of the fucking time. You are draining, fuck this I can't cope with you!'' and off I toddled for the bus.
I left her stood gawping after me :)

InnocenceAndExperience · 03/12/2014 23:18

I'm curious that you started your OP with the phrase 'we get on well', when that is clearly not how you feel at all.

I do sympathise, btw - my brother has similar traits and has been immensely harmful to me and many of my relationships - but I have always known we did not get on.

Somethingtodo · 04/12/2014 06:48

I think, that I think that "we get on well" just because we don't "row" - because I don't respond or retaliate to her....things will be be fine and then the swipe hits you smack in the face - I am a bit taken aback, takes me time to recover, understand if I am being paranoid, hypersensitive...and I never address it as that just triggers a further humiliation around "dont be so sensitive"....so of course we dont get on well thank you for pointing that out.

Bit more detail. from en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Living_With_a_Narcissist; Living with a narcissist can be at times upsetting and depressing, particularly because it is difficult to describe your experiences to others. Moreover, others outside of the immediate family will often be impressed by the narcissist's charm and will not wish to believe that your experiences with the narcissistic person are different from theirs. As a result, you are likely to feel misunderstood and isolated.The following list of traits may provide clues to determine whether someone is demonstrating strongly narcissist behavior. A narcissist typically requires:

Excessive attention (e.g. likes to be at the center of a discussion when visitors are in the house);
Adulation from others (i.e. likes to be admired by others and therefore presents an excessively positive image of himself or herself to others in order to secure that admiration);
Subservience from others (especially those who are close, those who live or work with him or her);
A narcissist often criticises or vilifies others but hates it when others criticise him or her; they are hypercritical of others, yet hypersensitive to criticism.
The narcissist may also be very adept at vilifying, doing it in a gracious or innocent or humorous manner, and making his or her backbiting seem socially acceptable.
A narcissist likes to receive praise from others but often dislikes to hear other people being praised.
Therefore, if you are in the habit of often speaking well of people (always giving praise when praise is due) then you may soon encounter objections from narcissists who hate to see others being praised. In this way, you may start to see narcissists raising their heads above the parapet to take aim at others who you praise.
A narcissist likes to ask favours of others but dislikes it when others ask too many favours of him or her. They may make a huge production out of doing the smallest favours for others, even when they didn't really go out of their way to do the favor itself.
A narcissist can be dishonest, but at the same time is a master of disguise and can lie very convincingly. The narcissist's lies may take the form of exaggeration or, in some cases, complete fabrication. To many who live with the narcissist it seems that the narcissist has a cavalier disrespect for precise truth, and there is a strong temptation for other family members to adopt a similar disrespect for precise truth. If one questions their inaccuracies, their response will often be outrage that you dare question their integrity (even when the lie is obvious), or berating you for being so petty to point out their fabrication.
A narcissist thinks that he or she is entitled to special privileges or special treatment.
A narcissist is inter-personally exploitative and takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends, without regard for how their choices might effect others. They will justify this by saying that they did it 'for their own good' or by some 'end justifies the means' rationalization.
A narcissist has little or no empathy and is unwilling or unable to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others.
A lack of genuine empathy (e.g. feeling genuinely sad when seeing other people being sad) is a key aspect of pathological narcissism -- although it should be borne in mind that a lack of empathy is exhibited not only by narcissists but by sociopaths as well. However, keep in mind that one may feel genuine sympathy without expressing it, or alternately, may convincingly feign sympathy while feeling nothing.
A narcissist is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her.
A narcissist typically seeks to control the family finances. Sometimes this need for control is also seen in their everyday traits, such as always wanting to be the one who drives the family car, decides the daily agenda, such as where the family will go to eat, or what they will have for dinner, outside of normal family roles (i.e., the person who does the daily grocery shopping and cooks the meals typically determines what the family will eat; the narcissist insists on controlling this even when he/she participates in neither of these precursor activities).
A narcissist often has an arrogant affect (e.g. haughty behaviours or attitudes).
The narcissist doesn't believe in equality, or at least not when it affects him. Equality would seem demeaning to the narcissist if it applied to him, because it places him down on the same level as everyone else. He often takes for himself special privileges, knowing that typically others won't be so rude to call him out for taking liberties with various situations. Since the narcissist believes he's entitled to special privileges, and seeks the easiest way to get ahead, where he feels he deserves to be, anyway, trying to get around the laws applied to everyone else is a quick and easy means to that end.
Others will regularly get angry at the narcissist's inappropriate, unethical, bullying behaviors, and they will immediately be dismissed by the narcissist as hotheads, jealous, liars, or as having any number of other defects. After all, their anger has to be inappropriate since the narcissist will never admit to being wrong themselves. This tactic also simultaneously provides them another level of denial, as the narcissist feels that everyone loves him and wants to be more like him, so the narcissist thinks that even people who are openly hostile to them really like them; they are simply short-tempered or jealous. The narcissist will typically go to great lengths to make everyone, including the person getting upset, feel like they are in the right, by focusing on the person's reaction to the narcissist's outrageous behavior, drawing attention away from their own conduct which led to the other person getting upset in the first place.
A narcissist typically has quite a lot of superficial charm or charisma. As Dr, Les Carter puts it in his book "Enough of you, let's talk about ME", a narcissist is capable of "making a good impression". It is highly likely that the narcissist will be popular among those who do not know him/her very well and who are unwise to his/her behaviours. The narcissist is unlikely to have difficulty in making new friends. Typically, many people will hold the narcissist in high regard, not realizing that the narcissist could be leading a 'double-life'.
In public or semi-public situations, the narcissist will often use charm in order to become the centre of attention. At a social event, for instance, the narcissist may often be found leading and directing the conversation. Watch them as they make exaggerated gestures to keep the attention of the crowd: flapping their arms and other excessive body motions, exaggerated facial expressions and inflections in their voice, as if they are performing in a dramatic play. This all works to the benefit of the narcissist, who can use charm to garner attention, admiration and adulation.
The narcissist will ruthlessly bully you while simultaneously using their well-honed powers of projection by calling you unfair or overly aggressive. They will agree to something in order to get what they want, then have absolutely no problem later withdrawing their agreement to, or not living up to something they promised, simply because they never intended to do it in the first place. They will delay and evade ruthlessly if you dare set a deadline, or if they know you need something done by a particular date. This is a recipe for disaster if any type of negotiations are attempted with the narcissist. You will ALWAYS lose when the other side is a narcissist.
One of the main risks presented to the family members of a narcissist is the risk of losing self-esteem and belief in themselves. Loss of self-esteem can be subtle and the person may not realise that he or she is losing self-esteem. One of the problems with narcissism is the constant need to gauge what is reasonable behaviour and what is not reasonable and to be confident in one's judgement. It is therefore important to understand self-esteem and how to build one's own self-esteem and the self-esteem of fellow family members.
If your partner is a narcissist then accept that you will have to work hard to preserve your own self-esteem and to preserve the self-esteem of your children.
Be aware that the narcissist can respond negatively if you compliment other people while you are in the narcissist's company. The narcissist is likely to see a compliment paid to someone else as an indirect insult to the narcissist (e.g. the narcissist might say something like "you are always saying good things about X but you never say anything good about ME").
If your partner is a narcissist then accept that you will have to work hard to preserve your own self-esteem and to preserve the self-esteem of your children.
Accept that narcissistic women will try to force their daughters to be exactly like them.
Be aware that the narcissist can respond negatively if you compliment other people while you are in the narcissist's company. The narcissist is likely to see a compliment paid to someone else as an indirect insult to the narcissist (e.g. the narcissist might say something like "you are always saying good things about X but you never say anything good about ME").

OP posts:
InnocenceAndExperience · 04/12/2014 08:33

This sums up my brother... Sad.

I guess when we were little I was treated as less important by our mother and therefore wasn't a threat, but I knew to stay away.

I have been in a situation over the last two years where I have had to deal with him and it has been utterly, utterly miserable. Small things like inviting himself to events which I'm invited to, to big things like discrediting me to my family to the extent that I have been cut off. Ask him to actually do a small task and he'll drag his feet and mess it up, even if its really important.

My brother knows I don't like him and this really needles him. He can't understand why I don't 'make more effort'.

The problems got much, much worse when I was praised by the family for how I'd stepped up when our mum was ill. It was also noted that he had done bugger all. This family is now NC with me because of the way he exacted his revenge over the next year.

Somethingtodo · 04/12/2014 08:43

Manipulative, cunning, evil - do they always destroy? do they always win?

OP posts:
CarbeDiem · 04/12/2014 15:55

There's no winning with a Narc, they are always right and revel in playing the victim they don't listen to reason nor criticism - you can only do yourself a favour and cut them out of your life - I appreciate it's easier said than done with family though.

Meerka · 04/12/2014 16:18

I think they often do, something.

The only way you have a chance is to be very, very on your guard. If it's at work, record everything. Everything. Keep quiet and try not to draw attention. But if they target you or if you have to go into the firing line recording every little thing helps make the lies and distortions clear later on. They exploit every power imbalance going at work so simply staying out of their firing line is best. No one needs the hassle and strain of handling a narcissist who's got you in their sights.

With family? I'm afraid the best option is to distance yourself. Hard on the children but a real narcissist is extremely poisonous. They can do a lot of damage especially when they start on your children. Even if they don't directly target them the nasty comments aimed at you will be within earshot of the children and can over time do nasty things.

I believe that challenging them over the nasty stuff and standing up for yoruself and not letting stuff pass is the main way to have a relationship if you really do have to be around them. But it will never be genuinely friendly and you can never, ever trust them. Give them minimum information possible. Actualy give them hassle when they hassle you is possibly another tactic so that they learn to avoid you because it's too much trouble to be nasty to you. But the sheer effort it takes is horrendous.

If you've been not standing up to them and decide to start standing up to them, expect the nastiness to ramp up considerably.

Somethingtodo · 04/12/2014 17:26

Funny you should mention work Meerka - I resigned after 23 years with a big corporate in the summer due to mental and physical ill health caused by bullying, out of remit over work & manipulation which once I confronted the ex boss culprit professionally - she systematically quietly destroyed my reputation in a matter of weeks - in order to get in there first. I have just completed a 5 month internal grievance process (which was not up held - due to her lies, manipulation of witnesses and falsification of evidence) - I am now taking legal proceedings against the company and have found out she has form. Same thing happened to another colleague a year before - she destroyed her career by telling others she was an alcoholic. I know nothing about narcs til yesterday - but the profile fits her to a T...is there anything published about NPD in the workplace - and is it recognised in law?

OP posts:
Somethingtodo · 08/12/2014 22:21

Actually with my sister the one comment that really rattled her was "you are deluded" -- this was well before I knew anything about narcs and she kept repeating "stop saying that - stop saying that.." - so might use that with other narc sister....

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page