"But we took you to stately homes!!!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

(New thread as previous one is full).

It's October 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

nah, it's not ridiculous. It's really weird how the persistant signs of unequal treatment really sting, even after you know what to expect and have told yourself to not get pricked by it.

Actually is it all possible it could be a postal thing? about one letter/parcel in 8 or more gets lost between the UK and here.

But if it doesn't turn up then, well, what will you do with your son's? :(

Good mmm. i have a horrid feeling.... sorry

funny though that DM sent the text, but certainly no gifts this year. She didn't send to me in June either, no text, nothing. even though she'd seen me at the hospital in May, had a chance to make good, but chosen not to, even when I actually called her out on her behaviour.

So you can see that she is absolutely determined to think that she is in the right and that everything she has done is FIIINE.

Seemingly she has done nothing wrong, there is no need to apologise, there is no need to make any effort. she seems to be thinking that if she continues to do nothing, that eventually I will realise that I am unreasonable and will apologise to her and I WILL bury the hatchet.

so no birthday wishes/card/anything for me. i need to be punished for expressing my hurt/anger at her treatment of me and my son.

A text for my son, to my mobile but no presents. That's fine, as we returned and regifted the ones she sent last year. The Amazon thing was a straight delivery, not a gift, so when I sent it back SHE got the refund...

Where is her thinking on this? Is it woe is me because she has no contact with him? why do these people not ask themselves the question... why IS that? the text is for HER, not for him.. or perhaps it's JUST to piss me off...

detach, detach detach.

Sorry Good but I also think your mother only sent one "gift" and has ignored your DD here. (I wrote as much in an earlier post of mine too). I doubt very much she would have wanted to pay more than one lot of Amazon postage charges and Amazon's delivery network is usually on the ball.

Am so sorry you're going through this but this is from her typical narc behaviour. The golden child/scapegoat dynamic is again being played out through your children.

Hissy

Your family of origin's behaviour are typical of toxic dysfunctional families.

Your family purely and simply want to bring you down into their own dysfunctional pit. They cannot play such games if there is no-one on the other end of the tug of war rope.

I would look into blocking your mother's text messages to your phone as well.

Detach, detach and continue to detach from these awful people and cut them off at the knees. They do not deserve either you or your son in their lives.

I don't know, Dbro said she'd sent presents. I don't think she would be that stupid, handing me that on a plate. It may be different Sellers, hence the delay. If only one comes then I won't give DS his obviously. Will look into sending it to Amazon, can't send it to her as she refuses to disclose her address. Cunt.

she lied to him

or mumbled the ending... the other option is that she knows that IF she said A present your DB would rumble her.

They DO hand this shit to you on a plate, remember mine? i LET HER move house without running after her to see if she would leave it at that, and she did. I had to see how she'd allow it to play out.

I have heard the enormously detailed stories she has told others, which prove she knew every sad and sorry in and out of my life and CHOSE to ignore me on purpose when I said nothing more than not having the greatest of days.

It may be different sellers. it may not be. either way, i'd not have that present in my home.

How to return a gift

When we discussed presents and potential ones from DM, DS and I agreed to see what it was and potentially regift it to his second cousin we're seeing on Boxing Day. the idea was also to send them to my Dsis, then somehow DM would see we'd rejected it.

as it was, nothing sent.

I have apologised and my mother is making a somewhat feeble effort to pass on info. I'm still not allowed to phone the hospital and I can't see that changing.

My dad was going to text/ phone me today, but oh surprise, my mother accidentally took his mobile home last night. She's apparently going to give it back to him tonight.

I feel awful as I think she went straight to him and whined about my outburst yesterday. I hadn't wanted to involve him or worry him so now he's desperately ill and involved in this mess too. It wouldn't be as simple as getting my dad to give direct instructions from him as she will have confused and blurred everything so he won't know I'm really blocked out and she'll be lying and twisting everything.

She's a sick poisonous individual who doesn't know any other way of behaving. And it hurts

I wrote this thing, last night after I posted on here, trying to sum up the situation and how it happened, it's really long though. Might post it but don't want to break the thread.

nothing more since my letter from my dad the other day. am committed to ignoring it.

we have a nice chilled christmas planned. my boss did a skype call with ds to help him pick presents for me to be delivered gift wrapped and delivered by amazon. i felt bad asking for her help but it was hard for him last year not being abel to get me anything. she didn't mind bless her and i'm obviously going to pay her for hte cost of gifts. so that's nice as he'll get the giving and the receiving and i'll get a surprise too childish maybe but it is nice to have at least somethign to unwrap on the day.

man who has been very nice for a while is picking us up and driving us to stay with him for a few days after christmas and potentially stay for new years - me, ds and the dog! he's been very nice and it will be lovely to get away and have adult company actually.

then i've booked us a few weeks out in my second home in egypt in january - with ds no longer in school (my god they'd disapprove of that) and me now self employed and able to work from wherever i am there's nothing to stop us. no doubt i'd hear lots of 'all right for some', 'you've always been so irresponsible' etc if i was still around to hear it but actually i've worked hard, taken risks, made difficult decisions and had to be very brave totally unsupported to create this is my life so fuck them and their opinions (even the imagined ones in my head )

things are actually looking ok. it's not easy going no contact and it's not easy doing everything alone and without support as a lone parent BUT my life gets better all the time since doing it - even when it's hard it's better and i have felt so liberated to do things however i choose to do them and as i think is best since writing them out of our lives. i will no doubt get things wrong as well as right but that's my business. not having constant criticism and negativity, doomsaying and wrongly assumed motives projected onto me has so freed me up.

any lurkers considering it but not sure as soon as you're ready DO IT. it honestly is like... starting your adult life and freeing yourself to be yourself.

Hissy
Please don't feel bad about the text you sent. I thought it was marvellous and brave.
My DM must have got the letter that I sent her by now. Nothing heard and I don't expect to. No birthday messages from either her or my weak enabling stepfather.
The thing that I am getting a lot from these threads including my own situation is the absence of a proper heartfelt , genuine , fulsome apology.
It is too late in the day now in my case but if years ago she had acknowledged and genuinely apologised for all the pain she has caused me things may have been different.
She never has done , always blamed everyone else and ignored me.
I could never understand it before these threads.
What causes narcissim or BPD. Could it be genetic?
Christmas and birthdays bring all the anger and bewilderment to the surface again.

NC is just beginning, it's all been quiet since his 'hospital' drama afew weeks ago. He must know by now I'm just not interested.

I felt pleased with myself that I managed to sort FB out so I don't have to read any of his shit. I can post stuff now without him seeing anything.

But the last two nights I've had dreams that really get under my skin. They are dreams where I can't get rid of him. He is always there, staring or just 'being' if that makes any sense. Also, I was scared to leave the room in case he stabbed everyone in there. he has form for violence, domestic and otherwise. I think the dreams stem from my good natured side. I don't want to hurt anyone, and that is not my intention. I am doing this as I can't face him anymore, I cannot dance the dance. I still feel guilty though. I assume is will get better.

misc Im glad you're getting some info.

honey it sounds as if you're doing amazing

insul - well done again on that letter. Re PD's, narcissim or BPD, there seem to be conflicting opinions (surprise) but the most generally accepted view seems to be that you can have a genetic predisposition for a PD but some extreme stress on the growing child/adolescent is needed for it to come out.

I actually think myself (fwiw) that some people are more vulnerable to pds and others actually make life choices to be selfish / inflexible / manipulative until the point comes that the habit hardens into inflexibility and then it's a PD. Im sure a psychiatrist would say that's wrong tho!

mcDirty ... it actually sounds like you feel threatened by him in your dreams. He sounds terrifying!

sometimes meerka. sometimes i let it sneak in and start creating those dark thoughts. i think what's helping is that i decided straight away that the most critical place to be non contact was in my head. as mad as it sounds for the first few months i wore a hairband round my wrist and everytime i caught myself going down those mental grooves i flicked it and said, 'no contact' aloud.

there would be little point cutting her physically out of my life if i allowed her to still be abusing me from the inside itms. it's almost like a mental hygene practice.

not that i can never think about it or the past or have to bury it but that if i start feeling those feelings about myself i was trained to feel or if i start gaslighting MYSELF re: the internalised version of her etc etc i have to stop. does that make sense at all or do i sound crazy?

reclaiming my mind and my feelings and my perspective and clarity on myself, others, the past, the future etc is the real non contact for me. the toxicity of contact (even the damned uninvited letters through my door) is it's ability to open up those mental, emotional pathways again.

oh and it took me till 38 years of age to go no contact so i had a lot of warm up time, creating boundaries, trying to keep her out of my head, being strong then screwing up etc etc etc before finally saying enough. this is easier than that essentially.

essentially when you spend years trying to heal yourself from abuse whilst still bloody exposing yourself to that abuse it is like trying to fill a bucket that someone keeps piercing holes in or something. it's a lot easier once you get away from the bucket piercer.

Honey - like the leaky bucket idea.

Meerka - how strange you say I'm scared of him. I thought I wasn't but maybe I am, that's a bit of a light bulb moment. I know consciously he can't physically hurt me now. But maybe my sub conscious doesn't understand that and I'm still scared of him.

I remember one night when I was about 6, I was scared because for some silly reason, I Thought was going to die. I went in to my parents bedroom, which was an absolute no no. I was crying and really scared. My df got angry and I just got more hysterical. He then locked me in the toilet to calm me down

honey I do understand. Over the years very slowly I've come to realise a few things about my father. Sometimes I wonder if I've distorted a perfectly ordinary man into some abusive figure completely unfairly - a sort of need to think badly of him - then I think of specific incidents and realise no, he is hollow and no real father at all for decades.

I don't think I've really realised the depth of the mental grooves yet. Even after all the therapy I've been through .

reclaiming my mind and my feelings and my perspective and clarity on myself, others, the past, the future etc is the real non contact for me This sounds a truly excellent nutshell.

mcdirtypaws ... if you re-read your previous post through the eyes of a stranger he does sound dangerous. It would be no suprise if he loomed large in your dreams.

Here's what I wrote last night but kept out of the post as it got insanely long...

It's all complicated by the fact that

1. I'm severely disabled and need a lot of help with everyday stuff, let alone in an emergency situation

1. With a genetic condition which I don't think they've told the doctors about, and is clearly responsible for his heart and arteries packing up ('clearly' if you know about it and have access to the reams of complicated family history). I became disabled a few years ago, and it turns out I have this genetic condition which is been living with always (who knew other people weren't in constant pain, injury and internal problems?! Not me, it turns out). Not only do I have this illness, my sister died of a variant of it, diagnosed retrospectively as part of the consultants detective work on me. Genetically it means my parents have it, my dad seriously and they urgently need checking up and closely monitoring. Broke the news to them several years ago and followed up with doctors letters explaining the news for them to get diagnosed and under a specialist, they even found them one in the right area and readied the consultant to fast track them through the wait list. I also explained that me and Ds prognosis isn't clear and they desperate need my parents to help with genetic testing to help me and Ds. My parents did fuck all. Refused to talk about it again. Never even said they were not going to help me and Ds. Made vague noises about getting checked out themselves but never have. I found out on Friday (through something they let slip on the call telling me dad was seriously ill) that they don't even believe the diagnosis for me, let alone my sister, and themselves ... & my son I guess either :(

1. I'm 200 miles away and travel injures me badly.

My world is very small as can't walk more than a few meters, can't sit up in a car and can't absorb the impact and strain on joints or soft tissue (its like I get whiplash type injuries every time I take even a two minute car ride). I use a mobility scooter but it's too big to transport anywhere (& can't get smaller one as seat needs to be this size to support back & neck). I am mostly bed bound and home bound, and any independence I have is due to my immediate environment being adapted and maintained perfectly.

I cannot go stay at my parents house, as I'm not welcome there.y mother won't let me back in, so Ds goes to stay with them on his own. Also it's not adapted and has stairs etc, also is in the middle of nowhere so car driving essential.

1. I depend on carers and they're all away for Christmas and new year, which wasn't ideal but was one of those things, main carers booked it off to keep ago, the two stand in carers became unavailable at short notice, and the lovely girl who is doing a lot of holiday cover now and before Xmas is going traveling and just brought her leaving day forwards as she's realised she didn't build in packing and organising time. Fair enough, one of those things. Can't use agency staff or council help as they only do adult care and insurance rules mean they cannot be left alone with Ds or do anything directly for him, can't even walk him to school. I'm bed bound at least 20 hrs a day so you can see the problem.

My dad was going to help me instead with both of them coming to stay for a week, and then taking Ds back with them for a few days more. My dad was having to do a very careful trick of supporting me with basic care needs, and help with Leo, whilst my mum obstructs all the way, demands all his attention at all times, and has several vague and unspecified health conditions which somehow means he has to dance attendance on her (conditions which appeared just after I broke the news to them, I don't doubt they exist but she's definitely not the invalid she pretends to be). I have to be so careful not to put too much pressure on him as carers are so absent this year, and I was worried about that even before this awful health disaster happened. Was going to put them up in a hotel as floor far too uncomfortable for them, was going to buy all ready / pre prepared food and was desperately trying to find some help to take Ds a couple of mornings... All completely futile now.

1. Ds is utterly reliant on me not getting worse, and I rely on carers to help me care for him. I cannot travel with him without help or look after him on my own for a whole day without massive over exertion and irreparable damage.

1. Ds hasn't got a father and therefore adores my dad/ his grandfather in a more fundamental way than in other families.

1. I've just been very ill (seriously ill but nothing compared to what's happening now with my dad), and in hospital. My dad came down and helped out for about 6 weeks. He was wonderful. I am ds foundation in life, and for a while there, his foundation shook. So Ds imprinted on my dad even more, slept with him, copied him, did everything with him, a little shadow. Ds is just getting over the shock and fear from me being taken away for weeks and being v ill.

1. I've encouraged Christmas excitement more than usual as Ds has had such a rubbish time. He is super excited at both grandparents coming to stay. Everything is about preparing for them coming, I'm doing them stockings with funny presents that everyone opens at the same time to make something bigger... We've got a massive tree. I've even beggared myself by buying a cupboard and a sofa for the lounge as it wasn't able to seat them and me. Sofa delivered sometime this week. Ha fucking ha.

1. Not currently able to fake festive cheer. Even if my dad gets through this Christmas will be, will be... I don't know. This could ruin Christmas for Ds. Forever. Unless I can make it work somehow. And I'm falling apart. I've said I've got a bug this last few days, and have arranged lots of out of house activities for Ds, but I'm a mess. He can tell though like children always can, he's started to sleep walk for the first time ever and wakes distressed. Don't want to tell him until I have an idea of likely outcomes and also a new plan for Christmas so I can explain how it's different but will be just as fun because... And I need to think through stuff like how will Father Christmas know where we are etc...

10. And lastly, my dad won't ever be able to help in the way he has this year. Even if he survives, he probably won't be how he was before. So, this is horrible and selfish, but he was just starting to help in the way that actually helped. Made a massive difference as the complete emergency fall back help. They won't even have Ds to stay again, as my dad did all the looking after and my mum did nothing. I feel that I've lost him and Ds has lost him from our lives and hearts, even if he survives in some way.

Misc - I truly have no words

If you return to Amazon, is there a "reason for return" box to tick an option for?
a) wrong item
b) damaged item
c) goods not as requested
d) sent by AN INTOLERABLE WANKBADGER

:)

misc I am so sorry it is so hard. Your parents .....

I assume you get max disability allowances or whatever they are called now? Not that it is anything like enough for what you need.

Im sorry, just scraping for anythign that would help but I'm sure you have done all you can.

Just ... am thinking of you. Really hoping that something, somewhere, gives you a break

Feel like crap today. Just utterly flattened. He's still alive though. Stable I think. I should feel releived or something but I just feel weird and battered.

You are taking a lot in ... it's really hard when someone you love goes into critical illness. On top of that your life will not be the same afterwards and you have a lot of worries ... everything is changing.

Do you get any support for yourself emotionally irl, as well as practical support? I really hope so ...

MISC can you find out his consultant name or at least the ward and send copies of your diagnosis letter or some such to them? horrible to think they might be treating him without full knowledge.

your situation sounds so tough! i work as a fundraiser/bid writing supporter for various charities and community groups - if you could pm me your general area i could put out feelers and find out what is available in those areas? would be no trouble and you'd be surprised what's available sometimes - some of the charities i work for do awesome things to support people isolated for one reason or another.

i cannot imagine coping with the load that you have and your love and determination to try and cushion your ds shines through so strongly. i'm so sorry you are dealing with this.

Something has arrived for DD, but post office shut now. Will have to wait til tomorrow.