"But we took you to stately homes!!!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

(New thread as previous one is full).

It's October 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

I already know I am wrong to shout at my kids and say horrible things. I need ways to deal with that and how to manage them without it. I am crying, do you really think I don't get it?

it's not kicking you - and i'm not telling you to feel bad. the only way you're going to genuinely feel better is by changing things and for that you need to get some help. do you think you don't need help? what help are you seeking?

i've not called you a shit parent - you have. so obviously the only real way of feeling better is to get help to change that. i'm sorry you think that is me trying to make you feel bad. it isn't. but when you admit, as you have, that things aren't working and everyone is miserable and suffering as a result there really only is one route and that is to reach out and get help for everyone's sake including your own.

realistically many of us on this thread, including you, may well not be here if our parents had made the leap from feeling unhappy/sad/angry/whatever to actually doing something about it and seeking professional help rather than just staying in their bubble and holding their hands up in a 'what can i do?' fashion.

it's too late for us but it's not too late for you and your children. i would be irresponsible not to urge you to get professional help. the consequences as we all know are just too dire to pretend that saying there, there it'll all come out in the wash is sufficient.

you don't want it to be this way, you love your children and want better for them and you so do it - reach out to any and every service you can to make that happen.

What do you think I am doing posting?! I am asking for help. I have tried outside services and all said they couldn't help - when they bothered to get back to me.

You tell me what else I am supposed to do when NO ONE will listen to me.

my starting points would be GP, social services, counsellors, family therapists, parenting classes, meeting with teachers and discussing concerns head on and alert them to the problems at home, charities that help struggling families, reading, etc. i would also ensure i was getting my mental health needs treated and working on my own issues. read books on sorting out dysfunctional families and work on implementing one strategy at a time to change things. etc.

if you are honestly doing all these things and nothing makes a difference then indeed it is a catastrophic, if in fact you are not doing all these things but have assumed there's no point, no one will listen, nothing will work, you are powerless etc then it is catastrophic thinking not reality.

i will be quiet now and maybe someone else will come and stroke and encourage passive victimhood in a way that i'm incapable of when it comes to the well being of children i'm afraid. it's ok to be imperfect, it's ok to royally fuck up parenting sometimes, especially when you've had such a hard background yourself but it's not ok to paralyse yourself into victimhood and declare incapability to do anything about it as an adult. you have the power.

Hi it'sfab.
Is it possible for you to contact the nspcc and/or parentline plus?
I know they used to run parenting courses, some of which are online. They also have suggestions for different parenting approaches.
Your children are all on the cusp of puberty which can be a real nightmare.
My brother - the golden child - also found and unwrapped his gifts one year.
He wasnt punished.
He never was.
And it hasn't really helped him in his life tbh.
You are obv at the end of your tether but - people aren't being mean - we are just trying to help.
X

I am doing none of those things. I am a victim of my childhood but I am doing my best and my children have never gone without. I don't want there there but I don't want your way either. You are making me feel a million times worse as you are making out I am doing nothing and completely fucking up my children's lives. Given what I have been through I find that completely offensive that you really believe I would let that happen to them.

The very fact I am laying myself open to such attacks proves I want things to change but attacking me and making out this is catastrophic and my kids are in danger is out of order, offensive and wrong.

Thank you and good bye.

Honeybadger is spot on.
If you have done all of what she suggests then your next step would be a complaint to your MP/gp practise/HV/services you have tried to use.

So, in fact, you haven't tried to access any help?

[coffee] and and hope you are holding on in there itsfab

I have asked for help. No reply to emails. Told my children are too old. Told I can't be helped. I have had counselling.

Anyway, I know what I have to do and I was right when I felt that time on here is part of the problem.

What can be done when DD hates her brothers, DS1 and 2 have had enough of her. Thanks all. I assume your hearts are all in the right place but you aren't judging this right at all.

Thank you and I would say don't bother replying as you would be wasting your time. I am off for good to spend some time on sorting out my catastrophic life. Feel free to slag me off at how useless I am. I already know it.

oh dear god i didn't say it was catastrophic - that was the opposite of my point. i haven't said virtually any of the things you've read.

Itsfab

Its is clear that your family life is at crisis point and the build up to that has been happening for some considerable time; this all really goes back years. You can be angry and go on the defensive but being defensive does not help you. Being angry at the wrong people here does not help you; if you've asked for real life support and were fobbed off they were the ones that failed and they're the ones you should reserve you anger for.

Who actually told you that your family could not be helped?.

I would urge you to now make contact with this charity who were formerly Parentline Plus.

www.familylives.org.uk/

everyone is providing the wrong kind of supply it seems. hunger is kicking in.

You aren't useless, but you are obv struggling.
No shame in that.

I think the 'help' was overly heavy handed here.

Itsfab is in bits and the 'advice' was overly harsh and misplaced.

Hi Itsfab

I've come back to see how you're doing. I really felt for your open honest pleas for help, because its all feeling so over-whelming for you at the moment.

You have been so open and brave in acknowledging any things that you have thought to be flaws in your parenting, and wanting help to get on track at a time when you are feeling so exhausted.

You said something that has presented itself to me as a suggestion for some real help. You said something about only sending one child at a time when visiting.

I am thinking that you could use these times to work on only one child yourself? If you could rotate weekends perhaps for the other two to have sleepovers, whilst you work all together the 3 of you, the DC that stays at home each w/end having 1-2-1 time, and being involved in cooking a saturday evening meal (which all 3 of you can help towards, but it being the choice of the DC), and doing their own bit around the house, they can choose a meal and a film or activity for the evening. Present this plan to them up front and let them know it is an opportunity for each of them to have choice to carve out good time for themselves. It will also give you a much needed break, as there will be two of you against one, as it were! (yourself and DH, 'against' the one DC).

It is a case of divide and conquer. Your recognition of lack of boundaries and 'getting away with murder' as you say, when they were younger might be the thing thats coming home to roost as you suspect, but this simply means being really clear about boundaries now. The two that are doing stay-overs will wonder and hopefully be at the least curious about their own time and think about what they want to do with it.

Your DH and you should work out how it will work between you beforehand, allowing you both to get periods of rest and time to yourselves to get out and have a break alone/with friends, take it in turns to do breakfast/sleep in. So everyone gets a break and you all get to join in supporting each DC to make their own meal.

It should feel like the w/end is a real break, but each has to know also that it takes contributing also to the team effort for that to happen.

I wouldn't worry at all about outings, they would definitely be off the menu in this house when theres rudeness or bad behaviour going on, and they can work towards a treat.

One such treat could be each helping putting bits of decoration up again?

Sorry! bit lengthy, and I know Christmas is right in the way, but with the w/end and holiday days there might be a chance to start?

First thing praps, to have a 'round the table' holding /passing a candle that only that one holding can speak, then pass on, so only one person talking and everyone else listening. A very very hard discipline under such circumstances but a really basic essential starting point to use as a forum for outlining your plans.

I found something really useful as a starting point too, during the 'candle' session, was to ask each to write down their expectations of how they would like to be treated, including your DH and yourself.

Write your lists independently of each other and then each can read out their list one at a time and check who else has that, and whether they would like that on their list too. These lists can be combined into one family agreement to show that everyone's opinions and contributions are valuable and everyone just wants to be treated with respect, and this might raise questions about what to do when someone breaks one of these very basic boundaries, how that might make each one feel and consequences for it?

Some ideas... perhaps something there will start you thinking around your own way of doing that or something similar or something altogether different? I'm hoping that at least it will give you something to start thinking on.. and to keep the communication and support going here.

If you are feeling so wiped out I would also recommend that you have a break from also volunteering? just a little time to get away and have some space/sleep/relaxation?

I feel guilty for having sent dm that text.

Hi there. Have followed this thread for years, but found it too painful and also complicated to post, and just one of many rubbish things in my life - though I'm aware it's probably at the bottom of quite a few, and I need to unlearn and heal a lifetime of wrong.

But now... My dad is very ill and I'm scared. Oh my daddy he might be gone.

And my mother is behaving badly and has cut off any way of me finding out how he is. Then doesn't tell me herself whilst pretending she doesn't understand what that's doing to me and making herself the star of this little show whilst pretending she hasn't just excluded me from my own father.

I don't actually think she's meaning to be as evil as she's being, although there's clearly some ill intent and points scoring behind it, mostly it's her warped and cruel mind and soul just doing what she does naturally.

Hospital won't even tell me if he's alive or dead (well they did in the end when I was clearly unravelling, but they made it clear is guilted them into it and it won't be repeated). I've had to beg her next door neighbors daughter to get news from her parents about my dad. She's using them for lifts & general practical support, and they've seen my dad and been party to medical conversations. They've been neighbors since I was 7, so a very long time, but they've never become friends and this kind of thing has never been reciprocated. But my mother (& father) has no friends and she tends to guilt acquaintances into helping as 'she's had such a hard life'. I grew up with the daughter but aren't close now, though we keep on vague contact. So I'm phoning her and crying down the phone begging her for details, any crumb she can give me. And it's really difficult as they are being helpful so far but are finding it very unpleasant to be in the middle of this and they've obviously fallen for her bullshit and can't quite believe she's not telling me stuff.

Everything's come crashing down. I'm having trouble holding on.

I've just had words with my mother and I've become the hurtful bitch I've spent a lifetime trying not to be. I've failed. Shit shit shit.

Sorry probably not very clear. It's hard to write.

you haven't failed! no one can hold it in forever and in the face of such stressful circumstances it would be superhuman to not release some frustration at how she is behaving.

out of curiousity as his daughter can you not just turn up at the hospital at a time she isn't there and go to see him/talk to the docs?

hissy Your text was amazing.

Can understand the guilt but I do think you were justified in sending that text. It was plain, clear, unambiguous and .... earned.

If I may be personal for a moment, I do get the impression you're riding the squalls of anger at the moment, the ones that come when people who should care for you have been shitty instead.

But that text was well earned by them.

misc I'm sorry to hear about your father. Very hard even when the relationship is good.

Is he compos mentis? could he arrange a password so that when you speak to the hospital on the phone, you can give it and they will pass information? (I did this with a dear friend; they had the name of my first cat and once I gave it they would let me know how things were).

I'm sad meerka and angry sad. it's so pointless.

I don't understand it. I don't understand jealousy, and never have done. it just doesn't compute. I feel that I am resented, I feel that my happiness upset them in a way, that they needed to bring me down a peg or two.

DF came over midway through the party 'Oh are you doing this by yourself?'

Erm, yes.. by myself as opposed to with whom?....

Boys had just come in, had got them all to remove their shoes. Told him to do same. I got vibes from that, ignored them.

My house/carpet/impending landlords inspection, My rules.

He was talking to me in the kitchen as the boys were eating in the front room. He only bloody farted! Who does that? a loud one too!

Eventually made some comment about looking for his shoes, and then got into his car as he asked about me 'making it up with DM'....

I wish life were different.

This is a shit time of year for us all. Every year I hope next year will be different... maybe next year will be.

Hot date tomorrow and thursday with LDR guy from France.... you never know...

Best of luck tomorrow and thursday ... hope you have a great time! :)

I came across a quote many years ago ... think it might even have been Alexander the Great but could have made that up ...

"that woman charges a damn high rent for 9 months' stay"

Hi,

Still no present for DD from DM (one arrived on thurs for DS-goldenboy). I really hope she's not that much of a CUNT to only send to DS. Also a stupid CUNT as obviously it's another thing I can say about her and her lunacy. Maybe something will turn up this week. It will hurt me if it doesn't, is that ridiculous?