"But we took you to stately homes!!!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

(New thread as previous one is full).

It's October 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

Narcissist BIL has managed to use one of his weak enabler friends to take both him and MIL to the nursing home. It never fails to amaze me how such people seem to always land on their feet.

Good for you insul. Its a great feeling when you realise that you're really starting to believe, deep in your gut, that none of this was your fault. And good for you for refusing to take all the blame on your shoulders.

I have a hair cutting issue too! Up to about 2 years old, I had beautiful ringlets. Then my mother cut it all off and I went through all of primary school with what I considered a 'boy's haircut'. I loathed it and was so jealous of other girls with long hair. My mother always told me that my hair was too thick and coarse to grow long. Utter bullshit - its been shoulder length and longer for the last 12 years! My sister was allowed to have long hair though. Weird.

Re: grieving process. I have been stuck in anger for about a year, I think. Before that I was combo of LC and NC and just tolerated him a couple of times a year. He is usually living abroad coz he's pissed off just about everyone, friends included and hopefully he will be abroad again soon. I tolerated him for the sake of the rest of my family

But I couldn't bear to do the mid year visit and stuck head in sand. Now I feel I'm doing the same but I'd like to see the rest of my family

Anyway I was talking about grieving process. Am in anger but don't feel the chasm people talk about through not having a normal df. I think I'm weird? Surely I should feel like I'm missing out and I can't help feeling its going to hit me like a freight train at some point, probably when he dies. Am I in denial?

Totally agree with the idea of grieving, it's a kind of death...death of the mum I thought I had in my case. I also understand the worry that other people will think I'm the bitch daughter who cut her poor elderly mother off. Therapist was aying basically, what do you care, you're not close to these people, why do you care what they think? I see what he means but it doesn't come naturally to me, been too trained to think like that.
Interestingly the cousin I was worried would stick her nose in sent us a xmas card to our new address and obviously knows Dm is back in the UK but it was a nice card and no mention of anything, so I responded in kind.
I have had a very tiring day today but it's been lovely. Went down to DBro's flat to do some paperwork I had to do on site and once it was finished walked along the beach in the glorious weather. Cold but sunny, no one else there. Then came home and DCs helped me put the tree up. Now in pyjamas eating danish pastries, off to bed soon for an early night.
xx

insul OORAH!

Dirtypaws it's not knowing what you were missing out on I think. I miss not having a normal mother because I've ssen what a normal mother looks like. It took me to the grieving process quite quickly. I was in therapy at the time though.

FeelingQuiteLightTiggaxx

dirtypaws I think people react differently. It may be that you simply had no good father and you don't miss a good one. Same as people without grandparents, some of them miss having them and some of them really don't, it just doesn't matter.

I think it has to do with a sense of belonging and being cherished and encouraged?

atilla ... at least BIL taking her lets you and your husband off the thread!

off the hook*. gah.

Excuse me venting here but I am ready explode, my DM is a narc & my DB is a sociopath, I realize how dramatic this sounds but trust me it is true & I really wish it weren't.

This morning DM's central heating broke down, she called me, I called Eon & booked an engineer, appt arranged, I called her back to confirm, all good so far.

I get a text tonight from my brother DM has called him crying, central heating not working, Holdthepage has done nothing about it, why haven't I got in touch with him, he has isolated the problem (WTF he is not a CH engineer). DM denies everything, hasn't called him, hasn't said anything.

I would absolutely love to jettison both of them, cut them loose, leave them to enjoy each other's company, they really deserve each other BUT in reality DM is old & vulnerable & DB is a vindictive, spiteful man, a convicted criminal who would bleed her dry if I allowed it.

I am stuck between a rock & a hard place & can see no escape.

Excuse my self-indulgence but venting here is stopping me texting the sociopath & letting him have it with both barrels.

so where's the truth here? one or both of them are lying.

tell him that he can be the hero.
tell her she's welcome to him, but to hide her assets.

then fuck em both off!

Believe me her assets are well hidden from him otherwise they would be well gone. I would dearly love to tell both of them to fuck off & if I hadn't posted here tonight he could well have got that text.

Neither of them could tell truth even if their lives depended on it. I wish I could explain how much stress this brings to my life, but I just know that my late father wouldn't want me to abandon her, however tempting that may be.

Htp sounds just like mil and bil. Leave them to each other. Walk away.

Thanks for words on grieving. Interesting that I don't miss what I haven't had. Can see the logic. But why other people feel chasm?

if you're certain they are both seriously unwell people but don't want to step away from your mother, the only way to handle it is to emotionally detach.

You did everything right; set up the heating engineer. Who knows what went wrong. But it's going to jerk you around by the heartstrings and drag you down unless you can let the nonsense pass over your head.

It's worth looking up how to act with care and love while keeping your heart guarded. Love is a verb. In this situation, so is pity for your mother.

er. what I mean is that you can act with love without getting your heart harrowed.

You made the arrangements. They obviously fell through. Give it a day or two and then text your mother again and keep it absolutely pragmatic, ignoring any histrionics. Deal with her on an absolutely practical and pragmatic level.

sorry.

dirty I don't know. Some people just react one way, some the other. Both are fine. If possible (sometimes its not easy), I'd say just don't worry about it.

Meerka - the truth is that I am protecting her from him, if I wasn't around she would be alone & penniless. He would be happy to take her for everything she has & then she wouldn't see him again.

Unfortunately she has played this pa "woe is me" game for as long as I can remember but it has royally pissed me off tonight.

HoldThePage

If your DB got his hands on her money that would be her fault, not yours.
These two both sound as bad as each other. As you also write none of them could tell the truth if their lives depended on it.

Please tell me that your plans at Christmas do not involve either of these two.

She phoned you also to sort out her own problem, she could have easily done this but got you to do it instead. Being as well trained as you are (only people raised by narcissists have anything to do with them) you arranged a heating engineer. Your brother then got in on the act and spout crap (that's the sort of thing my BIL would do as well).

Your late father also has had a hand in this in that you were given the impression that he would not want you to abandon her. That also keeps you trapped. He did you a huge disservice by doing that; he was really her hatchet man and never protected you at all from her abuse of you. He needed someone to idolise and that was his wife.

Are you really protecting her from him or are you by acting allowing the drama to further continue?. I am certain you have enough going on in your own life without their shenanigans as well to contend with.

It is okay to both emotionally detach from these two and walk away from them; they deserve each other.

These people play "woe is me" only to get what they want.

It did not exactly work out in my MILs case as her H is not in a near to her nursing home. Her only concern was for her because she said to the hospital staff, "well how am I going to drive that far?" (cue violins). She moaned and phoned all and sundry. However, her narcissist son managed to lean one of his weak enabler friends for said friend to take both him and his mother to the nursing home. BIL is also eyeing up FILs car and if he gets that, MIL will need to pay all costs pertaining to it (BIL does not work).

Dirtypaws,

Re your comment:-

"Anyway I was talking about grieving process. Am in anger but don't feel the chasm people talk about through not having a normal df. I think I'm weird? Surely I should feel like I'm missing out and I can't help feeling its going to hit me like a freight train at some point, probably when he dies. Am I in denial?"

Perhaps I can shed some light on this (my FIL is terminal). DH's original intentions were to ask him more about his side of the family tree (both deeply dysfunctional and boring), to take him out for the day somewhere (mainly to create some memories of his dad which are not all varying degrees of poor. DH wanted to create something, a relationship that has never been there). Due to his fast declining health none of that has happened.

Anger is also part of the grieving process, feeling that is normal.

One of DHs friends also had a very difficult relationship (another non relationship really with an emotionally absent father) with his father and I think DH talking to him has helped him a lot.

Its been described as complicated grief. I think this is what he is going through and he will have to process it in his own time. I can and do support him but its easier for me as his wife because I can be more detached. I feel compassion for FIL because he is gravely ill but that's about the extent of what I feel. FIL's certainly given me more than enough evidence over the years for me to allow myself to become more detached; his father has never been any sort of grandfather to my child let alone be any sort of a FIL to me. FIL's always had a choice in how to behave even though his own childhood from the little I know of it was in itself bloody awful.

Complicated grief? you're not kidding Attila! With the added buckets of self doubt and self loathing on the side because you've been so well trained to put yourself last and not value your own feelings. Lovely.

Hello may i join? I dont know if i 'fit' on this thread but ive reached breaking point and nearly told parents to go fuck themselves the other day. When i was 17 my dad drove me to my now inlaws and said he couldnt cope (with me) please look after her. I am now married to my then boyfriend and have a really wonderful relationship with my inlaws who support (and dare i say i love me!) However my relationship with parents is getting harder now i know what normal family life is like...yet my past still shows in every day life (ie if i sense FIL or hubby is in a bad mood ill walk on my tip toes so not to make a noise and i still shake although its got better). The thing is i do have happy childhood memories if you blur out the rest (we went on foreign holiday, to museums etc) Both my parents suffer from depression from the day i was born (made worse by my difficult and early birth) and my mum has been diagnosed psychotic depression in recent years. Early years (under 5)there was a lot of arguments, chucking stuff at one another, mums bad days my brother and i were locked in the back garden as mum couldnt cope with her headaches. The arguments got worse they could last upto five days, mum often locked herself in the bathroom/swallowed pills while dad went away. I kept my brother in our room, while i cleaned/kept everything tidy. As i got older it got harder, dad worked away sometimes and mum went through months of not getting out of bed so i fed/washed/cleaned etc. Dad used to go ballistic with me that i had fed my brother beans on toast/fish fingers, that we had mouldy bread etc as i got into my teens i realised how could i feed him anything more? I was a kid i didnt know how to cook and didnt have access to money to buy food from the shop! My mums depression has meant shes said some spiteful crap to me over the years, how i look, how stupid i am many a times screaming 'youre not my fucking daughter you bitch!' ( the 1st time she said that too me i turned 11 and was trying my prize a bottle of tempazan from her grip as she had plans to take the lot. ) ive got used to the fucking lazy bastard/stupid bitch/whore etc comments off both my parents and i did my best to shield my little brother from it. Half the time it was my fault i struggled balancing school with keeping the house in tip top condition, sometimes i couldnt get home at lunch time. Mum used to go missing for a few days usually during the night she'd wander off then come home wreck the rooms or rip up/burn/bin my personal items while hollering all kinds of not nice repeating things as me. Meanwhile i spent the previous few days trying to stop dad banging his head until it bled on the walls, and whispering to himself. dad used to talk to me about all his problems and get angry with me when i didnt know the answer. When he had his affair just before my 16th, i was out with friends so he couldnt talk to me to see what he should do about it and thus leading to it and my mother blaming me (1: i was out 2: i was messy 3: i never cleaned up 4: it wouldnt of happened if i wasnt born. The whole crux of their arguments being about lack of money due to mum falling pregnant with me) There is alot more than ive posted some of the worst i dont wish to relive but now im 25 and ttc but im so scared. What if i turn into my mother? Shes nice to me at times but sometimes she reverts back to her old ways (this year not recognising me and no letting me in to give her bday pressie i had to squeeze through the window and make sure she hadnt done anything stupid, the following week being all overly excited with me -shall we go shopping? shall we go for tea somewhere? my treat!) sometimes when they're nice and normal with me i slip up and forget all the shizz like deleting my answer phone 'cause hubby was sick of the verbal abusive and was going to go round to give my dad a piece of his mind. My husband wants me to cut all ties with them, but im too scared too....

P.s im really sorry for posting i feel awful posting. I know its not that bad in the grand scheme of things, ive never spoken to anyone 'anonymous' just my hubby and mother in law. Im really sorry. You can just ignore me if needs be. Sorry xx

you won't be ignored and don't need to apologise elley. i'm so sorry to read your story.

am posting and running but you WON'T be like your mum. believe me i used to worry about the same and think i'd never dare have children because of it - the fact we even worried about that chance tells you how different we are to them and how able we are to know the importance of good parenting and see that adults behaviour massively effects children. not things they knew or if they knew chose to act upon.

bless you - hope you'll stick around and get some support. sorry to be in a dash - i have a visitor coming and my house is a shit tip! emergency mess hiding mission required

ElleyBear13

Welcome.

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You did not really have a childhood did you?. You basically became an adult early, cleaned house and tried to parent and protect your brother. Both your parents failed you and your brother abjectly. I am also so sorry that no other adults were around, aware of what was happening or able to protect you from them.

Does your brother has any sort of relationship with them these days?. What became of him?

You may want to consider seeing a counsellor. However, counsellors are like shoes, you need to find someone that fits (so the first one you see may not necessarily be someone you can work with in the medium term). Also you need to find someone who has no bias about keeping families together despite the presence of mistreatment.

Why are you too scared to cut contact?. What are the reasons for stating that?. FOG - fear, obligation and guilt are but three of many damaging legacies left by such inadequate people to their now adult offspring and that may be some of the reasons why you cannot cut them off (yet).

You won't become like your mother to any children you go onto have because you know that your treatment of you was and is wrong on all levels. You have insight and empathy; two qualities that both of them are completely lacking in. They do not deserve you in their lives and such people never change. They have never apologised nor even taken any responsibility for their actions.

Thank you for your speedy responce honeybadger! I am scared esp now as hubby lost his job (we're still trying) im scared that if we fall pregnant now it'll be like my parents with me....we had a m/c three months ago i stupidly told my parents and now my mums using it against me. Long story short, the family dog we got when i was 13 is now MY dog and its causing her stress, she wants to get rid of it asap. (Mum and dad have an on/off relationship) Dad who moaned for years that he missed HIS dog now doesnt want the dog. Mum whose been quite happy with Trix for the past few years....but now its causing her stress, she doesnt need stress right now. Currently hubby and i are with inlaws till hubby gets his new job hopefully starting in a few weeks! So i explained to mum she'll have to hang on till january till husbands in a job and we can rent a dog friendly property. But no! She needs it sorting now its MY dog, why didnt i think about this when i got her? (Mum got her from the dogstrust and again, i was 13!!) I then (stupidly trying to appeal to her softer side) we have a lot going on at the moment, regarding losing our daughter and hubbys job id appreciate it if you gave me a few weeks to sort out Trix. Mum flew off the handle at this losing a baby isnt as stressful as an unfaithful husband due to a lazy daughter, she gave everything up for me look what i do in return. In the end i hung up i was to angry and hurt. Id of done anything to have Grace making a mess of my house, her shoes cluttering the hallway or having her photographs on the mantlepiece. (Ive caused my parents that much stress over the years they only had photos of my brother in the house) honeybadger do you really think we dont turn into our mothers and fathers? Im scared incase thats the real reason we lost her, she could tell what kind of mother i was going to be. On a lighter note honeybadger, i love living with my FIL/MIL the house is always messy! Ironing, washing, last nights pots its wonderful (haha!) noone shouts :D xxx

elley the huge majority of posters on here are openmouthed in shock at the life you have endured.

please post as much and ans often as YOU need to, we're all here to listen and give you the love and resect you are so rightfully owed. i'm so, so sorry to hear what you have been through.

upshot: please, please PLEASE tell your parents to ftfo and fuck off some more.

i'd batter them myself if I knew them. they are vile and don't deserve you!

Elley

I would cut off your parents now without a second glance; neither of them deserve to have you in their lives now. They are both completely dysfunctional and use a dog (which they have owned since you were 13) against you as well. Whatever you do for these people will never be enough because your mother in particular keeps moving the goalposts all the time. You are the scapegoat for all their inherent ills; this is also why they only have photos of your brother in their house, he was and likely is still the golden child. People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles.

You are also NOT the reason her H is unfaithful; how dare she pin that responsibility on you. You were but a child. He has been unfaithful to her and for her own selfish reasons she has chosen to remain with him. That was her free choice. You've never been responsible for her continual poor choices in life; she is. Her H and she have never sought the necessary help for their myriad of issues but instead dragged up two children within their household warzone with you both being emotionally scarred as a result. You have every right to feel very angry with them and when you do have children the best thing you could do for that child is to keep him/her completely away from your emotionally abusive parents.