"But we took you to stately homes!!!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

(New thread as previous one is full).

It's October 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

Thank you. I just wanted you all to know that I admire the strength you all have and I hope someday that I can find that same strength....

Hang in there, aus xx
Talk to us if you want to.

I don't even know where to begin. Perhaps beginning with the fact that I am the daughter of what I am learning to be a narcissistic Mom. An only child so I guess that means that I was the Golden Child and the scapegoat. Definitely not the lost child because she didn't ignore me. She smothered me. After my father left her 30 some years ago and she subsequently married again very soon so someone would "take care of her" I became for lack of a better word her crutch. I was the only one who could fix anything. When she went on one of her patented "I'd be better off dead" weeks or one of her pity-party what medical condition am I afflicted with this week rants it was me who always talked her down or through it.

I might add that she always has to be the center of attention and most of her hysterical outbursts have always worked. A few haven't but they have left long standing scars. I've been looking back over my life and now notice that every single major event or holiday has been somehow impacted negatively by her. From my wedding, to the birth of my son, to his graduations, his wedding and on and on. The final straw started when my first grandchild was being born a few weeks ago.

I am currently living alone as my husband took an assignment in a foreign country for his work. My elderly mother-in-law is having medical issues and recently just lost her husband and I'm trying to help her as much as I possibly can from long distance. My son, daughter-in-law and now grandchild live 600 miles in the opposite direction and have asked me to come help them. Mom has been in the hospital (some for real reason's for once) but most is really just made up according to the doctors for the better part of 4 months now and lives 600 miles in the opposite direction. I honestly believe she made herself hospitalized to draw attention away from the birth of my grandchild. It wouldn't be the first time that her need for attention trumped what should have been a happy event or even another crises. When we were burying my grandmother even it all became about her. There was something that just snapped in me the other day when she said to me..."You don't love me. You won't come take care of me. Your selfish and ungrateful." All because I told her no.

She is getting old obviously and I really did intend on taking the best care of her I could, but all I can picture in my head is me being 16 again, walking in and finding her arms bruised and bloodied (she'd done it to herself after dad left).

Am I being selfish? Ungrateful? What if I am wrong and this isn't just normal mom hysterical behavior? She is now giving me the silent treatment and as guilty as I feel about it... it's almost like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders.

let her make the next move - or not as the case may be.

aus1 parents are meant to give us unconditional love. Ungrateful? Gratitude is a coat to be worn lightly, or it becomes a prison - and a hate filled one too. Mothers who say 'you are ungrateful' are damaging their children and it's about them not us. It's a reproach and a manipulation and it's wrong.

I saw my biological mother doing this to my halfsisters and it was intensely destructive and selfish. It was a way of getting them to do what she wanted. It certainly wasn't in their interests.

It's usually a sign that something is very wrong with a person if they are saying 'my children are ungrateful'. You don't make a social contract with your children. YOu make it with your partner.

insul it sounds like you did the right thing for you with the letter. That's what it's all about!

honey keep strong Keep reading toxic parents and working on seeing them as guilt trippers and strangers, not as decent parents.

in haste, hoping everyone is surviving - Meerka

Aus you're being torn asunder. I think it's time to step away from your mother's negativity and focus your energy elsewhere. She will never appreciate you. She is the selfish one. Go see that grandchild and invest in your future

I just had to share....

Little bit of background - I am very low contact with narc parents. This situation has come about through discussions with my therapist and it is working well for me. I have not discussed any of it with them, just quietly worked on emotionaly detaching and cut down on contact gradually. I know that they want more contact with me but still expect me to do all the work of the relationship, which is not going to happen.

It was my birthday yesterday. Usually I get a box of (thoughtful) gifts from my mother and a card signed by her from both of them. And they both text me in the morning to wish happy birthday.

Not a word from either of them all day yesterday. It was in the back of my mind all day. I still had a lovely day, and it didn't feel devastating like it would have done a couple of years ago, so I was proud of myself for that. It was odd, and didn't feel good, but was kind of ok at the same time, and maybe even vaguely liberating. I thought it was maybe some kind of punishment for not visiting them this Christmas, but who knows what goes on in their heads frankly, so I didn't dwell on trying to work it out.

I get into work this morning, and there's a card signed in the usual way with 50 inside it and a message about treating myself to something nice because I deserve it. Dear god, they are both so very deeply weird. I don't understand them at all. Working on detaching from them means that I don't work nearly as hard as I used to on trying to understand them, but still, it does take up some space in my head. Very very strange.

From the sob story FB message, 'what have I done' where should I begin to a quavery voicemail saying 'I love you' now df is sharing a post on FB. It reads something like 'appreciate your parents because one day it might be too late'.

Now where do I start? It needled me and I just wanted to put a message on there saying 'you had an argument with your sister and was grateful because now you don't have to visit your elderly, dementia ridden mother. ' I was quite proud of the fact that it hasn't really riled me.

Dear df - what is there to appreciate? You abused your whole family, causing ongoing mental health issues for ALL four of your children. You've beaten us but we were naughty pitched us against each other. Beaten you wife braking bones, cheated on her left right and centre. Fucked off to the pub EVERY night, or perhaps now I understand you were fucking your latest victim. With a spot of drink driving thrown in. Abused your position in your profession, beating them too. Then played your cards to retire early and are now sitting on a nice fat pension.. Screwed DM in the divorce, just by turning up and talking menacingly. DM who now is struggling on pension credits but don't let that worry you whilst you fuck off on your latest jolly, of which there have been fucking many. Spain, Australia anywhere else?

You fucking arrogant, stupid, selfish man. I am ashamed you are my father. I want to scrub myself. Worried about it being to late to appreciate you? Not me, can't wait til your gone.

Is that all a bit much? I hate him. Am I way off the mark?

just block em. ultimat revenge right there.

seriously, vent all you like on here, but engaging them is pointless and you'll be the one xcomingg off worst because you do care what others think of you, and you know that, no, not everything is justified because you want to look good.

you're better than them. they know this, which is why they resented you.

so delete them from your lives, for once and for all and get on with living your own life happily. as you deserve

dirtypaws post that quote from the bible:

"children, honour thy parents. parents drive not thy children to distraction"

Then block them.

I am thinking my sister is toxic to me. I have been off work with stress and have, since April, been asking to come back to work. Basically, I realize I haven't been employee of the month, but I have done all the assessments, reports, blah blah that they've asked for, all saying I can go back, and they are stuffing me around so much that I have briefed a lawyer. I was telling my sister this, and explaining that I either want to go back to work or, if there isn't a job for me, a redundancy, as per terms of employment. She went on and on and on saying I'll make them angry if I get a lawyer, don't I think they have lawyers, I should just resign and I shouldn't accept a redundancy because I don't need the money and I'd be taking it from sick patients.
She has always been contemptuous of me. She broke up with a boyfriend once and he rang and obviously made up. She said he had invited us up to his to watch tv. Turns out they were all over each other on the couch and I had been 'invited' as the driver, to await her being ready to come home. Another time, I had been in hospital with a kidney infection, a serious one. My sister picked me up and drove me home. I thanked her, of course, and said I just felt like a bit of alone time and quiet. I was still weak and very tired. She refused to leave and stod there with the most malicious smirk on her face, thoroughly enjoying driving me insane. When we shared a room (late teens) she'd have a nightmare and insist on having the light on, knowing that meant I couldn't sleep.
A bit of an epic! I apologise, but there is so much to say.

Anyone else feel that they're going through a grieving process with regard to toxic family? I've been working very hard on detaching from narc parents, and to a lesser extent, from unsupportive sister and in the past 2-3 months, I've been feeling lighter, more at peace, much less weighed down by the whole thing. Now the birthday incident has triggered a return to what I call the acute stage of grief - sobbing, feeling like every part of me hurts, feeling so alone, feeling damaged and shocked by the whole thing and wondering whether life will ever settle down, feeling like there is an aching chasm in me that will never be filled. These periods used to terrify me, but now I know that just going with it is the best way forward, rather than resisting it and hating it which is what I used to do. I know that grieving is a process and its just part of coming to terms with having parents who can never be there for you in the way that you crave. At times though, it hurts like hell

Can completely relate to that Lottapianos. Definitely think there is a grieving process that has to be experienced and is completely understandable. I think the grieving is usually about the realisation that will never have the parents I would dearly love to have- supportive, interested etc. it can be very hurtful that parent/s don't or couldn't give us that.

I've been nc with my mum for a couple of months now, except a couple of texts from her which I haven't responded to. One was yesterday, informing me that as she and her new partner are away for Xmas (going to Australia, which is a relief as don't have to worry about seeing her at Xmas!), she is having a Xmas gathering on the 21st and wants me to take my 2 dc's. Now, these are 2 dgc's that she has made no effort to engage with in recent months. Plus they've never been to her new house that she lives with her new partner. This, alongside fact that recently she went round and threatened to kill my step dad and his partner if he went near 'her grandchildren' again! (This is step dad she told us she had suspicions was a paedophile when they split up- stayed with him for 12 yrs though!!). I'm not being unreasonable in not wanting my dc's to go round am I?

Thanks Worry. The worst thing about it is the loneliness - the feeling that no other bugger understands what its like and that maybe I'm overreacting to it all anyway. It doesn't help that I'm really struggling with anger and jealousy towards my best friend - she has her own family issues but has a 2 year old girl and is pregnant again. I'm insanely jealous that while I'm having to work at dismantling my family , she is creating one of her own. She has no idea I feel this way - I'm super supportive and enthusiastic to her face, but inside I want to tell her she's a smug bitch I never ever would, and I love her really, and I know I will come through this and it will all be fine, but its pretty dark stuff right now.

And no, you're not unreasonable in the slightest to not want your DCs to be in that situation. Do you think she wants them there so she can play the doting grandma in front of other people? It sounds like she has little interest in having a real relationship with them. How sad

yes lotta I feel it too. Still at the resisting stage often ... even after all these years.

worry, imo you'd be unreasonable if you let them see their grandmother. She's deeply unreliable and untrustworthy.

Worry

Do not let your children see your mother under any circumstances. You are no contact for very good reason.

I would also try and get all means of communication from her blocked as of now including text messages.

Radio silence from you must be maintained, there must be no response from you at all.

re cutting hair short, when the egg donor had my hair cut short apparently they 'cut it against the curl' and managed to make my hair straight. She never would believe that a hair cut could NOT change the dna of your hair and that length and extra weight of the hair was what was pulling the curl straight.

I use not my circus, not my monkey ALL THE TIME! It really helps.

Meerka you are completely correct, ongoing and hard. I find with The Cub, that I praise the effort not the outcome and that helps me sit on 'those' feelings.

Massive hugs to all at a very hard time of year for us.

OffToMakeChristmasFuckingAmazingForUsTiggaxx

FIL has now been moved to a nursing home which is some distance away from where we live.

MILs main concern is her in that she is wondering how she is going to get there because, "she cannot drive that far (15 miles)".

Dysfunctional families and terminal illness are indeed a toxic mix.

Are they expecting you or your husband to drive them? :s

I think she is fishing for a lift off someone yes, not necessarily me though. She does the "poor me" shtick very well.

I'm not going to bloody well drive her there, I have no wish to see FIL anyway. I would likely feel a lot differently if FIL had shown any amount of interest in any of our lives; he's been too self absorbed and unavailable throughout to do so. Its DH I feel for the most in all this having crap parents like these two.

I would think that DH will take his mother anyway over to the nursing home after he gets his car back from the garage next week.

self pity sounds like a habit with her :/ very difficult for your DH in these last weeks. Particularly round this time of year. Hope he's managing to keep his head above water. it's not just the practical difficulties is it, but the turbulent emotions

THank you everyone. Yes, a difficult time of year. It makes the Sense of loss more apparent.

Lottapianos, yes I think she wants them there to give a show (especially to new partners family). No interest really otherwise- she wouldn't know what they're into, what they like. Her loss I say. She'll make out to anyone who'll listen (not many people now!) that I'm a bitch of a daughter denying her access to her grandchildren. She still manages to make me feel like I'm the unreasonable one.

Very much her loss. I sometimes wonder if people think I'm the bitch daughter who abandoned her parents, but then I remind myself of all the stuff that no one outside the family knows about and think how they would be if they did!

I also had short hair when I was younger and I was told by my mother that she always thought that she would have a pretty child and how plain I was! Along with the verbal and physical abuse.

She also has never been interested in her GC - ever.
The golden child is having first baby shortly. I wonder what she will be like to that GC?

I have hardly had anything to do with her in the past 6 years and it helps that I do not live in the same country as her but since I tried going NC / LC , she has never tried to find out why or even tried to contact me about it. I find this odd.

It is very hard at this time of the year. I find that this is when the anger / grief most flares up.

But do you know what? Something feels different somehow. I sent that letter but even if I hadn't of sent it and reading on here has made me realise finally that it REALLY IS NOT MY FAULT. I cannot be held responsible for how I was treated as a child. I was the child - she was the adult.

I WAS NOT DIFFICULT , SULLEN , A PROBLEM CHILD , PROVOCATIVE , JUST LIKE MY FATHER. IT WAS NOT MY FAULT THAT MY MOTHER GOT PREGNANT AT 17.

I will not take the spoken and unspoken blame any longer.

I'm feeling powerful and hulkish!

Haven't posted on this thread before but yes, I'm the product of dysfunction. I don't see my parents much - as little as possible really and stone wall any criticism of me by them. I'm just not interested in hearing them breathe tbh.

A question: is there a book similar to, "Will I Ever Be Good Enough?: Healing the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers" which is about narc fathers because believe me, I have one.

Thanks.