Can A wife Contribute To A Marriage non-financially??

[lilaloves]

Hi,I'm in the process of initial meetings with solicitor regarding separation/divorce from Husband who walked out 3mths ago for OW.

Last week I received letter from his solicitor outlining husbands proposed terms financially towards myself and children.

He proposes contact with our 3 dc at mutually agreeable times,which I accept.

He proposes £50 a week for each child,£200 a month spousal support to me,and an extra £400 a month if I agree to give up my role within his business
I have a small role on paper as a tax loophole.

He then maintains it would be the fairest solution for me to make no claim on his business or future earnings,effecting a clean break.

Although I have made no real financial contributions to his business,I feel I have supported his career,supported his 12/14 hour working days 6/7 days a week, over the last 10 years.
I have been the sole carer of our dc.
I gave up my career,social life,free time in order for his business to be a success.
Surely this counts for something??!

Or do I have to prove I helped him financially?

Also I know on paper he pays himself a very low salary,is that how payments will be calculated? As his salary is not a true reflection of turnover of business?

no - your contributions are exactly what you have described - hours, years of support and caring and home-making. This has allowed him to put the time in at work, giving him an income at the expense of yours. A fairly typical and standard arrangement in a marriage if one parent stays at home.

However, when it comes to divorce, contributions are not usually as important as needs. What do you need, in order to house you and the children and to live on? What does your exH need, to house himself and support contact with dc? What is the appropriate way to meet those needs from income and capital - he works, you work, you both work, you keep the house, he gets the house, pensions are kept or split, whatever?

You really, really need legal advice on this, from a specialist family solicitor.

Of course your contribution counts. Get yourself a shit hot lawyer.

If you have facilitated his work, that should be recognised.

If he draws a low salary from his business then your solicitor can find, indeed some already work with, forensic accountants. They will provide an independent valuation of the business for the court.

Figure out how much you would have earnt if you hadn't given up work to care for him and the children, and how much childcare would have cost if you hadn't done it for free.

Yes a wife can contribute to a marriage non-financially.

If you had a career that you gave up this helps as does a long marriage + children.

If you are alleging his payments/accounts don't reflect the true position, your solicitors will need to investigate this. Sounds to me like a priority for you is ensuring you have very good solicitors who are experienced in divorce and ancillary relief. You need a personal recommendation really.

Avoid just picking a firm off google or walking into the nearest high street branch - that is a recipe for disaster.

Is 'his' business a property of the marriage? What other equity are you sharing? What is his income including dividends (which I assume he pays himself on top of a minimal salary)? Etc etc. Get a good solicitor.

Does he own the business 100%? Did he start it whilst in the marriage?

Def get a lawyer.

If you're being offered spousal maintenance (which is increasingly rare) then there is an acknowledgement in principle that you have contributed and sacrificed your own earnings as a result. I can't say if the amount offered is reasonable but your solicitor should be able to advise.

The limiting factor, I believe, is your ability to earn a living from here. If you were retirement age, for example, without qualifications because you'd spent 40 years being a SAHW, then you could argue for a higher figure for longer than if you are relatively young with a good potential for an income of your own in the future. The obligation of an ex only goes so far

Time to get your own solicitor. I'm afraid when businesses are involved, it gets a bit complicated in divorce. He can draw down a very low salary, and have a very high turnover, but that doesn't mean it's a profitable business. Also, is it a sole trader, a ltd company, partnership etc. What assets and cash reserves does it have? What is the equity and debt within the business? When was it established/inherited? How was it initially financed?

All these things matter.

That "offer" sounds more like an insult to me. You don't say how wealthy (or not) his business made you as a family, but if "he says it's 'fair'" I would say that it's probably very "fair" to him.

And very unfair to you and your children.

As the 'homemaker' you are assumed to have fully contributed to the marriage. It takes more than income to make a family, someone has to give birth to the children, and more importantly, someone has to bring them up.

If 'earnings' was the only component with which we value contribution to "family life" then only the wealthy earners are "properly taking care of" their family. And that is seriously not a belief that would sit comfortably with most reasonable people - including judges!

It's just a proposal. Your attorney needs to counter.

His lawyer is offering you what his client (your ex) is offering, which he is being paid to offer. Basically it is a starting point for negotiations so you do need a lawyer to negotiate and advise you. Whilst he is saying it is a fair solution you give up any claim on the business, well he would say that wouldn't he?

Your ex could not have built up or run his business if you had not brought up his children, ran his home etc and for this reason you also built up the business. You have been an employee when it suited, albeit on paper, but now you are surplus to requirements and his lawyer considers it "fair" you give up your rights in this respect also.

Does not sound quite to "fair" in reality does it?

You need legal advice, but do shop around for a solicitor you feel comfortabe with and who understands you.

It's hard to say whether or not that's fair without knowing how much money the business makes.

If the spousal support is indefinite (until you remarry, I think is the norm?) then it's worth quite a lot of money - over 7k a year, not including the child support which would take it up to 15k a year. Of course, if the business is doing really well and your ex is able to take out 300k a year, then it's not fair.. As someone else said, the spousal support is recognition of your contributions to the marriage, the question is whether it is sufficient recognition or not.

You should also bear in mind that forcing your ex to sell up will not necessarily be in your best interests - I know a lot of people who have sold businesses and they do not sell for as much as you might think because it is hard to find the right buyer. Additionally, if your ex ended up unemployed for a lengthy period because of selling up, you would not get that much in terms of child support.

But, yeah, the bottom line is that you need to talk to your solicitor and see what he/she thinks would be fair.

Hi,So much to take in and think about.
Firstly,yes the Business was set up after we married,he took out several loans to start up and my parents contributed around £25,000 over several years.

Our family home is solely mine and in my name as I purchased it with money I was left before we married.

DH was unwilling to buy another property together or contribute to a mortgage during our marriage,claiming he could not afford to,so we have remained in my property ever since,with im paying bills.

He is renting a property for himself for £1,500 a month at the moment.
He will be paying out more for his accommodation than what he will be paying for myself and 3 kids.

Could I argue that I have provided a roof over our heads all these years?

As far as his business figures are concerned I really have no idea,we have never shared accounts,at his request.
His business went through a very shaky time 4 years ago,was almost bankrupt.
He owed over £180,000 to the bank,which he has paid off in 2 years.To pay that back over 2 years his business is profitable.

I know turnover is in excess of 2 million a year
.
But I know after costs,staff wages,overheads,stock etc the reality of whats left is rather different.

So sorry to look so thick regarding financial matters,this has just never been my area of our marriage,but knowledge is power and I want to understand as much as I can now.Thanks for all the help.

That should have said with him paying the bills

Could I argue that I have provided a roof over our heads all these years?

Yes but this isn't for YOU to argue; it's the job of a lawyer. You MUST find a solicitor immediately and they will advise you about this. Every situation is different and turns on the circumstances of the case - so no one here can give you definitive advice.

It does happen that men when they know they are approaching a divorce will divert income, even going as far as setting up off shore companies.

But the basic points you have mentioned - giving up a career, children, long marriage, business turn over of £2 million are all in your favour.

Please don't try to deal with this on your own.

I think he is trying to say he won't try and make claim on my property if I don't claim on his business?
As I understand it he can't as the money I purchased property with was inherited and before we married.

Yes,I'm meeting with a solicitor next week,I'm just trying to make some sense of this in my head,if that makes sense

Hi Lilaloves, I'm sorry about your situation and also that I can't give you any advice (SAHM about to get to grips with financial issues entrusted to DH before I serve those papers). Didn't want to RR so leaving you

When you meet with your solicitor, make it clear you want everything you can get. Everything. You have three children to support and £50 per child per week doesn't cover it. Oh, and that 'week' stuff. Watch out for it turning into calendar months. Your £200 a month isn't often £50 a week.

Google White vs White, UK family law.

However, as others have said, your lawyer should be all over this anyway. It has been part of divorce for a quite a few years now.

So you want to keep the house, take a share of the business plus get effectively 600 p/m spousal maintenance . That sounds like a lot to me.

You're wrong about him not having a claim on the marital house due to it being bought before marriage as it is still considered a marital asset. Both the business and the house will be treated as marital assets.

Depending on how much the business is worth (and I'm assuming since it's only been profit making for the last four years it won't be an enormous amount), it may be better for you to accept his offer of you keeping house and him keeping the business.

Obviously you need to speak to a specialist lawyer, but 600pm plus CM (and do make sure he pays the full CSA amount), and a mortgage free home sounds reasonable to me.

Your property may have been pre-owned before you married but you've clearly been married some considerable time. Unless you had some kind of pre-nuptial agreement that the property would remain yours in the event of a split, I think you'll find that he has a legitimate claim to it. If you'd only been married a few months it would be different.

Certainly something to talk to your solicitor about

OP how much is your house worth and how much is your STBXHs salary and dividends?

Well, you're just starting out in the process so you'll be very relieved when you meet with your solicitor next week! You are not expected to be Finance Expert in divorce - that's your solicitor's job to know (so make sure you get the right solicitor).

You need a Finance Specialist Divorce Solicitor (not a jack of all trades). So check they have done work in similar divorces to your own individual circumstances.

The family home is 'shared' but inheritance, depending on how long you were married, may play a feature. Sometimes it's ringfenced, sometimes it's not. A key thing is how it was used, and how long you were married.

That's why every divorce is different = every marriage is different. There a few hard and fast rules.

If you think of the value of the Business + the House + Any other assets (e.g. cars, jewellery, etc) - debts = pot to be split up between you, he and your children.

The think about what your needs are, what his needs are. Once the pot is divided are everyone's needs met? If not, how can they be? If they are, what is the surplus? How should that be divided?

Turnover does not value a business, for that you need to look on the balance sheet for its equity value. Same as a house. The value of a house to you (not to a buyer) is: Sales Value - Mortgage - Costs of Sale = Real worth. Don't worry if you don't have any of this. It can be obtained later on.

So if your parents put in 25,000 what paperwork (emails etc) do you have of the intention of that money. They too may have a claim on the business.

Take with you any evidence, or at least start collecting it, of the loans by your parents, your inheritance etc that supports your case. Don't worry if you haven't got it all by your first appointment, you'll have to get it done for your Form E (which is the book of your life), and an essential part of a litigated divorce (which yours is not right now).

He will have to supply all of his bank transactions if you have a litigated divorce, including his business ones.

You can argue anything you like - but it all comes down to agreeing a settlement. So you may argue to ringfence the inheritance, he may argue he wants to keep the business - if there's a big difference in the between the values of those, he may offer you a lump sum to balance it (or ownership of the house.

Divorce is a very big, very long argument. If you cannot resolve these between yourselves (via your solicitors) then you have no alternative but to go to court. But, it's a very stressful difficult time. Good luck with it.

(And remember, anything "he says" should be taken with a pinch of salt).

Hi,Yes I will look into the issues regarding my property,we are in Scotand and from what I could gather as the property was bought before we were married he has no right to it,I may be wrong.

I should add that although we are mortgage free the property was purchased for myself as a single person,it is and has in no way been suitable for us to live in as family of 5 all these years

Dh claimed we could not afford anything else.
Now he manages to suddenly produce £1500 a month for his own rental property wharn a mortgage was totally out of the question
.
He seems to be able to produce money when he wants/needs anything.He and the ow are in Paris this week.
My dc are on October break,did he suggest taking them away for a holiday?

I'm trying really hard to separate the emotional side and think logically.
I just feel we as a family have sacrificed so so much over the years,living in a tiny property,no holidays,no weekends,the stress,the responsibility of looking after 3 kids 24/7 with almost no input from him.
This may be a blessing in disguise,the dc hav hardly noticed hes gone,its all they have ever known.
I was willing to sacrifice our lives for the good of the business as one day I hoped we would benefit as a family.
Know I feel its him and ow that will reap the rewards.
I also feel I supported him through all the struggle and hard times and he left as soon as making any decent money.

I am pretty sure you're wrong about property being ring fenced. I also think it's unfair that you want the business (which you acknowledge you have not directly worked for) to be a family asset, but not the marital home. Ok you have enabled him to grow the business by providing childcare but equally he could argue he has enabled you to maintain your home by paying the bills.

If you force him to sell the business in order to give you what you see as your "cut" then you may well cut off your nose to spite your face.