Is it me?

[WeevilKnievel]

Hi,

Just posting for a bit of perspective really. I'm in an 18yr relationship which has always been difficult and I feel like we're going round in circles.
My husband was due to be going out tonight ( a regular fortnightly thing) and was out last night too.
He works from home and generally helps with bath/ bedtime of the kids. But tonight he had a work call that went on til 7.25 so I did the bath etc. he just came upstairs in time for stories so I let him take over.
A couple of minutes later he'd put my son in his cot and said goodnight having read one small board book - usually does a few books. At which point I complained about this, not shouting or swearing ( obviously) but I was annoyed. He was very indignant telling me his work had gone over and he was supposed to be going out at 7.35. I headed down the stairs saying why is it always me that picks up the slack just because he's going out and that he wasn't here last night to help at bedtime either.
He said that's my choice that i don't go out much and as I went down the stairs he flew down the stairs after me - kind of chasing me.
I don't think this is on really, I felt quite scared.
He then lay on the bed for the next 20 mins until I came back up ( my son was calling out) I was in the bathroom with him when H came in and said " thanks for ruining my night" and inferring that I'd thrown a spanner in the works to scupper his night out!
I told him that his threatening behaviour wasn't on and he said no it's not ideal but why do you always do it ( complain basically)
I asked him does he not expect me to say something if I'm unhappy and he said " no not really"
He then went out after telling me that he wouldn't be home til tomorrow night or Saturday morning.
I'm sorry this is really boring but after 18yrs of this kind of thing I really need some help. Believe it or not I still feel a bit shaky and sick.

I genuinely don't think he feels his behaviour is abusive at all. When I've used that term with him on previous occasions he's scoffed at me, told me not to be ridiculous.
I really think if he thought he was being abusive he would stop.
He's told me before that the reason he flies off the handle is because his had to deal with me for the last 18 years.

As for the 'help'... I've never had DS dad help me with bath, or bedtime, ever.

you can do it, and if he wants to do it, let him. leave him to do it the way he needs to. as long as the kids are settled and he doesn't wind them up, then leave him to it. otherwise it can resemble undermining, and that's never good.

the micro managing comment aside, you have to calmly tell him that he does not EVER do that to you again and that he needs to make sure that he lets you know when he is going out so that you can make arrangements to start going out yourself. and do it too.

the 'utopia' for him is that YOU STFU and never get annoyed though. sounds like HE can do what he wants to. you can't live like this and your children won't grow up thriving in an atmosphere like this.

The song is enough to tell him to pack his bags. he's vile.

If everything's your fault, then he is abusive. You are not free to express yourself, and that is killing your relationship (has killed?), and will continue to do so.

It is irrelevant whether he realises he is being abusive as I doubt very much he would stop, far more likely he'd just find more subtle ways of putting you down.

You may find counselling useful - that is individual counselling for you, not couple counselling/marriage guidance/Relate. He'll use it as a tool against you. Could you stretch to counselling for yourself?

Yes Jux I would definitely consider counselling for myself. I did look into couples counselling about a year ago though the cost was a bit prohibitive, (around £50 a session) I wonder if individual counselling would be slightly less.

I couldn't live with this. He is pushing you to react and then when you do he turns it into your fault for starting an argument. He's getting a kick out of it. It's not a nice quiet environment for the children, it's him being a bully and they will start to pick up on it when they're old enough to understand what's going on.

It's a battle of wills now, isn't it? He knows how to push your buttons and has no qualms in doing so. You know he is button pushing but you keep playing the game. (If he had 20 mins to lie on the bed after the story reading, then he wasn't really in a hurry at all).

The acronyms, the song - very insidious ways of making you question yourself.

And you've been doing that for so long, it's become your "normal".

You need to detach from him for a while, spend some time thinking about you and your own feelings about your own life. Not the feelings that relate to him, just yours.

If he has been doing this for years, I suspect some self reflection will give you some clarity.

If it's a new thing, once you stop reacting, he will have to adjust his behaviour and you will see it.

This is the telling post :

A couple of minutes later he'd put my son in his cot

An 18yr relationship and a 2yo child my child, not a child of the relationship.

I think you are hard work. He works from home, meets his mates once a fortnight. You have the arse because he has put the child to bed and read one story.

Your OP is all over the place - I'm with hissy on the summary.

I think you need to see the Doc and get some happy tabs because you are the millstone in this relationship

Oh dear. That JBN and the song really frosts my buns! Vv condescending IMO!!

If you have an 18 year pattern of this, then you are attempting to swim against the tide. Not that you shouldn't try to break the pattern, just that it won't be easy.

First, I'd take him up on his 'offer' that you 'need to get out more'. Go to the movies, take a class, join a club. Hell, sit on the kerb around the corner! Anything so that HE has to carry the 'burden' at home for the evening!

Second, since he won't let you speak your piece, write it down and give it to him to read. Make it simple, logical, and unemotional. If you truly feel that you are nearing the end of your tether say so, but don't issue ultimatums unless you intend to make good on them Hand it to him, say 'read this' and walk away.

Thirdly, couples counseling. If he won't go, go alone.

If he pulls his usual routine, then you'll know that he has no intention of trying to improve your marriage. Then the only decision to be made is yours; leave and be happy or stay and be unhappy.

I really wouldn't advise you to go to couples counselling; he will use it as a tool to become more abusive in more subtle ways.

Concentrate on getting yourself strong and your head sorted out, so individual counselling.

Costs vary quite a lot, but there are charities which provide counselling. Have a chat with Women's Aid to get things clearer .in your head. Who knows, they may be able to recommend someone.

lovemenot I do need to detach, I try to do that emotionally, but it's hard because we're around each other alot. I feel much lighter when I'm not with him tbh.
AcrossthePond that's a great idea about writing stuff down and giving it to him to read. He very often won't let me finish what im saying.
TheMagicChicken I think the part about 'my son' is a bit of a red herring.
You might be right about the happy tabs though.
Jux Thankyou, will look into that.

Just because he says what he does is not abusive doesn't make it true

No abuser I ever heard of held their hands up and said you got me bang to rights

Thing is he's a reasonable person in every other aspect. Which is why I keep trying to reason with him.
I think if someone else was to tell him that some of his behaviour was abusive he would take note.
Not likely to happen though as everyone that knows him thinks he's wonderful.

who cares what others think. You shouldn't have to reason or bargain with him though should you? Your own thoughts and opinions of him are perfectly ok without seeking validation of them from elsewhere?

First, let me state that I KNOW that my situation is rare and that it may not be true for others. But counseling CAN work for emotional abuse.

My husband was (yes, WAS) emotionally abusive. I won't go into details except to say that it was due to differences in child-rearing beliefs. In all other areas of our marriage, things were fine. I finally confronted him with it (after probably 5 years of it) and told him if he didn't agree to counseling the children and I were GONE, that very night. I had never issued that ultimatum before. He agreed to go, sincerely wanting to stay married, but admitted later that although he said he was 'open minded' he was pretty sure that any counselor worth his/her salt would simply be telling me I was wrong and he was right . Obviously, that did NOT happen. He was open minded enough to listen and really HEAR the counselor because, in the end, he loved his family more than he loved himself. He did 'hold up his hands and say you got me'. It was hard work, but we made it in the end. Both of us had to change. I had to learn to be more assertive and verbal, he had to learn to recognize his anger signs and abusive reactions. That was around 15 years ago. Other than a 'tune up' session (at HIS suggestion) when DS2 reached those teen years, things have been wonderful.

Again, maybe my DH is part of a very small minority of EAers that can be 'saved'. But I think if you feel that he's reasonable in every other aspect of YOUR MARRIAGE (sex, money, household duties) but just fails miserably in listening to and valuing your feelings, then counseling may be worth a try. Any counselor worth anything will shortly be able to tell you if they feel he is at all 'salvageable'.

All that being said, if physical violence of any type is involved, even throwing things at walls or destroying things, leave.

Thanks AcrossthePond55 that's interesting. I think the part about learning to recognise the anger signs and abusive reactions would be the key for my husband.
I wonder if that kind of counselling would be more beneficial than anger management? H has been for anger management previously ( maybe 18months ago) and found it helpful all the time he was going but then the effects seemed to tail off afterwards.

His anger management was part of our counseling. We had joint sessions and a some separate sessions. But she felt that it was also important for me to learn what his triggers were and his anger management tools were so he and I could work together to help him. Not a case of learning to tippy-toe around his triggers, no, but helping him to recognize them in 'real life situations' and so both of us could defuse a situation together.

No man is worth waiting and hoping he will finally realise it is unacceptable to treat you like this

No decent man should have to be taught how to be decent

Play the tiny numbers game if you wish (and I think you will as you are clearly not ready to accept the truth yet) but don't waste your life waiting for a miracle that overwhelmingly is unlikely to happen

The problem with waiting and hoping is that your children are learning damaging lessons every day you tolerate this shit

I know AnyFucker you're right. I suppose I think to myself that it's not really bad enough to leave -yet anyway. ( grew up with very bad domestic violence) so this isn't so bad in comparison. Saying that, I probably would have gone by now if I had any sort of support network.
Thanks for all your replies anyway. Makes me think that I wouldn't be completely irrational to leave.

No, you would be entirely rational to leave

But you will do it when you are ready and not before

...hopefully before too much damage is done

Somehow, somewhere, somebody taught you that a relationship with a man takes precedence over everything. That "love", even in it's most toxic and sabotaging forms will prevail.

Well fuck that, because every day we live is one day less we have. And I would rather live alone than let anyone treat me like something worthless. WK, there are lots oif men out there who would be appalled at the way your husband behaves.

Yes my Mum did try to teach me that! Even after regular beatings and numerous infidelities my mum still loved my dad dearly. In fact he left her in the end, - for someone else.
I however don't think I do love my husband any more. But am still finding it difficult to leave.

Not loving someone any more is enough of a reason to leave in and of itself. You have that, and more.

You don't want to teach your children that a normal loving relationship between two adults looks like what goes on between you and h.

JuxtheDaemonVampire my main concern is the kids and they don't get to see much of a loving relationship between me and H.
When we're not falling out he's actually very loving and demonstrative towards me, but I just freeze. Waiting for him to stop hugging me. I just can't forget all the past pain and nastiness.
I've told him before that I have a lot of resentment towards him. (Because I am quite cold towards him) He's told me that I've got to find a way to deal with it.
Don't know how to do that really..
When I've told him that I don't think I love him anymore he doesn't believe me.

Hi im really sorry you are going through this. Think you have had some lovely comments and advice. Im not one to get involved or give out deffinate advice on others relationships usually but I cant help but think after putting up with this for 18 years thats enough to drive anyone mad you must have patience of a saint!!

If this was a recent change I would have a totally differnt attitude but you are going round in very negative circles that isnt doing your or the children any good. I agree you need to find yourself something for yourself, possibly any evening classes or fitness groups? Build up your confidence a little :)

Wouldnt be happy about him staying out over night willy nilly either appreciate we all need bit of an escape sometimes but strikes me as someone whos trying to have best of both worlds.

I hope you manage to sort something out and if you did leave him things would eventually work out for the better, from what you have said he saounds like a fab dad for what its worth

I think it's interesting that he says that YOU have to find a way to deal with the resentment you feel. You'd think he'd be saying that WE need to find a way to work together so that there IS no resentment. In essence, what he is saying is that HE is blameless and that YOU are having resentment for no reason.

My DH was willing to work, and readily admitted fault soon after we started counseling. And he acknowledged from the get-go that our marriage was in trouble. If your husband is not willing to accept responsibility for his actions, I fear there's no chance that he will change.