My friend's new DP wants her to sign away any future claim on their flat

[Flingmoo]

My friend has been with her new partner (first real partner actually) for about 6 months and they are going to move in together. They're currently both renting and he wants to buy a flat in only his name but have her paying 50/50 towards bills/mortgage payments. He's owned a house before but rents now.

Because he's been stung before by a girlfriend taking half the property when they split up, he wants her to sign some kind of "pre nup" style agreement that she will not be entitled to any share of the flat if they split. She was 100% happy to do this until her parents criticised that plan and has now asked me for advice on it (me being married with mortgage and a baby, she assumes I'm some sort of wise sage on relationship issues...!)

In her view, she's always rented anyway, so she doesn't feel she's any worse off by entering into this sort of agreement, to her its no different from renting, where you obviously don't have any property at the end of it.

People of mumsnet, what are your views on this...? Personally I think she should at least be entitled to whatever amount she'll have paid into the property in the event that they split up. Otherwise, if they did ever split up, it'd seem as if he's used her as a lodger to help pay his mortgage!

She should tell him she'd like to get on the property ladder too and so would he accept a v small monthly contribution from her as she's saving up for a deposit.

Concur with everyone else, cannot believe she is even considering this!

If I were her I'd offer to pay 50% of the bills and 0% of the mortgage, considering that is the % he is offering her of the property.

Perhaps he has been reading MumsNet where the first hint of a problem and the advice is to get as much financial information as possible and see how much money you can get.

If one person wants to buy a house without a deposit contribution from the other then it is reasonable to protect yourself from unnecessarily complicated claims in the future. The document should be made void should marriage occur and only be based on this property and not subsequent ones where the contribution may be different.

What I really don't see is anyone saying that if they were to split up she should or could claim a share of the deposit he's putting down, so I don't see where all the angst on his behalf is coming from.

The OP says Because he's been stung before by a girlfriend taking half the property when they split up and I want to know how that is.

He doesn't have any children does he?
It says 'girlfriend' not wife.

So how can he have been stung

That's a major concern for me about the whole situation.

I'm getting the feeling he's not particularly committed to the relationship but having someone paying half of all his living costs will be a big help.
Of course the girl will have half the living costs also, but she won't have any rights or protection regarding the roof over her head.
If it's only a one bed and they do fall out, she leaves herself extremely vulnerable and it would be exactly the same if the genders were reversed.

If I was ops friend my objection would be:

Not that I dont have a claim to his property, I would not expect that, but that I am expected to pay half his mortgage, my share of bills, and then made to sign an agreement that I will have no claim. That is my sticking point, that he is so confident I would try to shaft him. I will not be an equal partner, I will be paying off his property, yet have no rights and can be put on the street , so I will have no security, and no sense that it is my HOME, like I would if I was renting my own place. It would make him my "master" and I would not want that.

I would like to know how big my share of the mortgage is, ie smaller or bigger than market rent, and if I would be financially better off myself through this deal with him, like I would be if I shared RENT with him. I think I would also want to sign a tenancy agreement....

Then I would start saving up for my own deposit, or security.
I would NOT get pregnant by him unless we were married, and equal partners in the relationship.

Legally she would have no claim anyway. Much safer all round if she had a tenancy agreement with him.

But what sticks in my craw is the 'planning for the inevitable' bit. I would urge your friend to take a bit more time to get to know him.

Agreed enrique. If it's only a one bed, the only way he's going to get rent of any kind is within a relationship, which is a good motivation to get into one...

Just to repeat what a few people have said: She wouldn't have a claim on the house anyway. Her contributing to household expenses won't make a difference.

She also cannot be a tenant, as she would live with the homeowner and share facilities. She would be a lodger at best.

As a lodger/excluded occupier she has very minimal rights. The usual tenancy notice periods don't apply.

I don't see what's wrong with this. Yes, she can be made homeless at short notice if the relationship were to break down. But she can also leave whenever she wants to, without having to worry about being liable for rent or mortgage payments.

She should tell him to Do One.

Duh silly me, yes AwakeCantSleep of course it would be a licence in effect not a tenancy agreement!

He is asking her to do this and only after 6 months as well?. Absolutely not.

Your friend needs to wise up more both emotionally and financially as well.

he gets to pick the flat well, yes, he has the deposit saved and wants to buy. That's how it works. His gf doesn't need to move in.

If the woman rented at least she wouldn't lose her home when her relationship breaks down if she had a tenancy agreement, she would be no worse off then if they rented together off a third party. And she might be financially better off.

If I were her I'd offer to pay 50% of the bills and 0% of the mortgage, considering that is the % he is offering her of the property. should she pay rent? Or live rent free cuntlodge?

Where we live, the situation is such that our mortgage is a good £300 cheaper than market rate rent. So in a situation described by OP, the 'rent' for the non home owner would be significantly cheaper than renting from a third party, with the added advantage that there is likely more flexibility in terms of painting or putting up shelves or having a pet, than with a traditional tenant landlord situation.

I really don't see how this is seen as more negative than the 2 of them renting together. If they eventually got married surely this is all moot anyway?

It's not that bad a deal for her -- 50% of a mortgage is bound to be a LOT cheaper than rent. A LOT cheaper.

Perhaps the answer is to split the difference.

Without her, he would get £0 mortgage assistance. Without him owning a home, she would be paying half of £x market rate rent. Maybe she should pay him the average of the two sums, therefore both benefit.

Yes, she can be made homeless at short notice if the relationship were to break down. But she can also leave whenever she wants to

Which is true, but it doesn't sound like any kind of basis to enter into a relationship especially one where you're living together.
It sounds like a venture that you anticipate is destined for failure before you start, on both parts.

Twinklestein we're on the same page.

enrique it sounds like the only kind of agreement that I would be comfortable entering into after a six months relationship. If they are still together in a year's time they can reassess.

Renting together would be more risky in a way as she would be bound by a minimum term. She would also jointly be liable to pay the whole rent not just her half.

I'd advise the OP's friend to let boyfriend buy the flat on his own and not move in just yet.

What is the market rate for rent of half a bed and a shared bedroom?

Buy her a copy of Smart Women, Foolish Choices.

So what would you all say if a man was going to come and live with you but as he isn't on the deeds is only willing to pay half towards the bills excluding the mortgage?

I had my own house when I met XDP who moved in with me after a while. He gave me some money which I used for mortgage, bills, etc. He probably gave me the equivalent of how much it would cost to rent a very small flat in my area.

When we split up he tried to claim half of my house. Eventually I paid him a very sizable amount.

Never ever would I allow anyone to live with me without some sort of pre nup type agreement.

Twinkle, depending on area, if they were to move into say a 2 bed house around here, the rent would be around £600pm so £300pp. But is a pointless question without knowing the area or what type of property they would rent as a couple.

If half the mortgage plus bills are considerably less than her current rent/bills arrangement and this gives her a nicer place to live then I don't see the problem - they both save money which he can invest in his property and she can save or fritter away as she chooses. He'd be mad to want to give away equity on his property to a girlfriend of 6 months. Equally, she needs to make sure she doesn't get sucked in to paying for repairs/furnishing/decoration.

If they are still together after a year or two she does need to seriously reconsider though. She shouldn't put her own property-owning ambitions on hold, or assume that, because it is now a long-term relationship, she's eventually going to get a share of this property. Most of my nerves would focus on what happens medium/long term - not what happens now.

Great big fat cocklodger sara and I can't see that this is any different