My friend's new DP wants her to sign away any future claim on their flat

[Flingmoo]

My friend has been with her new partner (first real partner actually) for about 6 months and they are going to move in together. They're currently both renting and he wants to buy a flat in only his name but have her paying 50/50 towards bills/mortgage payments. He's owned a house before but rents now.

Because he's been stung before by a girlfriend taking half the property when they split up, he wants her to sign some kind of "pre nup" style agreement that she will not be entitled to any share of the flat if they split. She was 100% happy to do this until her parents criticised that plan and has now asked me for advice on it (me being married with mortgage and a baby, she assumes I'm some sort of wise sage on relationship issues...!)

In her view, she's always rented anyway, so she doesn't feel she's any worse off by entering into this sort of agreement, to her its no different from renting, where you obviously don't have any property at the end of it.

People of mumsnet, what are your views on this...? Personally I think she should at least be entitled to whatever amount she'll have paid into the property in the event that they split up. Otherwise, if they did ever split up, it'd seem as if he's used her as a lodger to help pay his mortgage!

Yes they could surfs up. But that could be more than what he's proposing (it would be if I moved a boyfriend in for instance).

He is allowed to offer her mates rates on the rent isn't he? If he is doing that, and just calling it 50% of the mortgage for the sake of simplicity, then she should be bloody grateful surely!

I've seen so many threads on MN where it's the other way around and the advice to the woman is almost invariably to protect her own asset until the relationship is absolutely assured. I can't understand why this bloke isn't allowed to do that.

As pointed out below for all we he may be doing her a huge favour by reducing the amount she's paying at the moment.

Surfsup Yes I do believe you're right - I think that he's not going to buy a more expensive property as a result of having my friend's financial contributions, and I think he was planning on buying a new place anyway. So to some extent he is just buying a place and innocently asking his girlfriend to move in and pay her share of things.

At the same time though I do think it seems a little mean to expect her to sign some sort of contract to specifically leave her with nothing if they break up. Ringfencing his deposit makes more sense to me, as does waiting a while longer and then doing it "properly" and just getting a joint mortgage.

I am also concerned about the agreement going on with no end date, what if he got hit by a bus in 5 years time and she gets evicted and is left with nothing as she would not be his official next of kin...

It's been good to hear such a range of responses. I do get the impression he is a nice guy who just happens to be suggesting a naive and maybe slightly unfair solution to a problem he's experienced in the past - rather than a total user.

I wouldn't want to spend my time doing up a flat to my taste every weekend, instead of going out having fun. He will, understandably want to do these things and she very possibly won't.

I wouldn't move in, and I wouldn't be very prepared to spend my time painting it and changing my life dramatically 6 months in.

It's not a flat share, it's playing house and a big commitment to the relationship. Let him move in and sort it all out and then see in 6 months.

So this guy has worked hard and saved enough money to buy a home of his own, but his relatively new GF should get a share of that if they break up down the track? why?

I think the rent agreement is a better way of organising the situation, but I don;t think she should have any claim on his flat or on the money she will be paying to cover her own accommodation.

OP let your friend read this thread.

OP's friend - don't move in with this man. Do not give notice on your property. Tell DP that if he wishes to buy a property at this point in the relationship to do so alone. You will not be moving in with him. You don't need to give a reason.

My spidey senses are prickling over this chap...

Good luck

I wouldn't want to spend my time doing up a flat to my taste every weekend, instead of going out having fun. He will, understandably want to do these things and she very possibly won't.
Another assumption - maybe the flat is finished just how he likes it? Maybe she loves home decorating? I've spent plenty of time helping friends out with painting etc when they bought a new flat - it was hard work but just part of being a good friend IMO. My friends were also wonderful in giving me a hand when I moved a couple of times. No one was exploited in the tarting of my flats.

My ex wanted me to do this.

I'm now married to an amazing bloke who treats me as an equal partner.

Sounds reasonable if she pays her share of the bills only, not mortgage.

He has saved to buy a place. He was going to buy it anyway. They have only been together for 6 months. It is normal that he doesn't want to commit to buying a place together. (She shouldn't, either).

Wouldn't that make her somewhat of a kept woman Cote?

If she pays half the interest only on the mortgage, half the bills (not maintenance or decorative), and puts in no deposit then it's fair. Although id worry it won't feel like her home.

No.

It makes her an intelligent one who refuses to pay for the mortgage of a house she will have no claim to.

I think he should buy his flat and she should live in her own place and in 1-2 years, if they are still together, they can think about setting up a home together. That could mean her moving in to his flat and paying half the mortgage, which should entitle her to some of the equity if they split. Or selling that flat and buying a property together.
What she should not do is move in with him now. He's obviously not ready for that type of commitment and they are rushing things.

Bt she's renting, so she's already doing that Cote this way she gets to live with someone she's in love with.

So this guy has worked hard and saved enough money to buy a home of his own, but his relatively new GF should get a share of that if they break up down the track? why?

Eh? He's not saved hard enough to buy the flat outright or even apparently pay the whole mortgage. If you need someone else's cash to pay the mortgage then they are entitled a share of the equity to which they are contributing.

If he wants her to have no right to the flat then she doesn't contribute to the mortgage, she pays rent only, which must be calculated fairly.

When my DP moved into my home we had a lodger agreement drawn up. He paid me "rent" which covered gas, electric, TV, the 25% council tax I was losing, part of the water bill etc... but did not contribute to the mortage. Nor did I allow him to buy anything which would increase the property value, because then he might have claim to some of "my" house should we split.

When we bought a place together the equity of my former property forming all of the deposit. So, we are tenants in common with an unequal split in my favour to reflect my greater investment (67%/33%). This was drawn up by our conveyancing solicitor and cost very little.

I think that the OP's friend should pay an amount of rent, but not one that contributes towards mortgage or upkeep. This protects the flat owner mainly in case they split up. She needs a formal agreement to prevent him throwing her out with no warning and no rights of residence.

I wouldn't do this. My DH did this with his first DP and when she had an affair and left him, she kicked him out of their home.

Stupid thing to do. Life separately until you have a good enough grip on the relationship to know it's going to last, then it's joint ownership, or nothing.

I agree with Ehric except for the fact that I would run a mile from a man who behaves like this over finances: selfish, manipulative and trying to profit from your gf is not a good look. It suggestw the potential for financial abuse further down the line.

If he's like this about moving in, what would he be like if they divorced.

I essentially agree Waspie but surely the rent goes into his account and he then pays bills, taxes, mortgage etc from that account? It's not like the rent needs to be specifically earmarked for particular things is it?

Life separately until you have a good enough grip on the relationship to know it's going to last, then it's joint ownership, or nothing.

I would NEVER go into a joint ownership situation with someone I'd never lived with!!