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Original poster

"Man-Child" what causes it?

30 replies

yougotafriend · 14/10/2014 07:52

I have another thread about my impending marriage break up, but as this is on a slightly different subject I thought I'd start again.

In H's "woe is me" state, he goes out shopping for a new car. Signs up for a nearly new audi. I don't agree this is practical or necessary but hey, I'm leaving soon!

Last night he had to be nice to me (after 2 weeks of almost total blanking) cos he can't find details the insurance details of his current car. I politely helped but did not do anything over and above.

This morning he says he's not getting the car now..... Realised he can't afford the car + insurance. It's a performance car an he has 6 points so it more than trebles (wouldn't most people check that out first?) so I've been providing financial advice re cooling off periods etc.... Seriously how has he managed to get to 55 and be so clueless? Is it my fault, am I complete control freak?

I think it's chicken and egg, i.e I helped/he did less/I did more/he became so incapable it was easier if I did almost every everything!!

OP posts:

CogitoErgoSometimes · 14/10/2014 08:05

The phrase you want is 'why bark when you have a dog?'......

Some people are quite happy being lazy, selfish and letting others pick up the slack. If acting a bit 'clueless' means others run around doing everything, that's what they do. I don't even like the phrase 'manchild' because that diminishes the problem... makes them sound like cute toddlers when they're just irresponsible adults.

DeckSwabber · 14/10/2014 08:09

I don't know the answer but I know a few blokes like that.

I wonder if its because the 'Alpha' side of them means that they get a thrill from making big, gratifying decisions in a decisive, Alpha-ish way. As you are splitting up, this is his way of saying 'ner'.

My ex- got into an astronomical amount of debt in the months after we split because of stupid, extravagant decisions and lack of due diligence - one of which involved HMRC. He's still paying for it all 10 years later.

DeckSwabber · 14/10/2014 08:11

And no, its not your fault.

Original poster

yougotafriend · 14/10/2014 08:14

I worry that when I'm gone he still won't step up to the plate and my 15yr old DS will end up organising his life..... He only asked me this morning cos DS didn't know.....

OP posts:

Joysmum · 14/10/2014 08:17

Is not a gender specific issue.

People like that continue because life hasn't thrown at them the consequences sufficient enough to prompt them to be any different.

DeckSwabber · 14/10/2014 08:18

He'll be fine when he's on his own. He'll get it wrong a couple of times and then when he's fallen on his arse because you weren't there he'll wake up. He won't want to look an idiot in front of his son.

Original poster

yougotafriend · 14/10/2014 08:21

I hope so deckswabber

DS is 16 btw.... (fat fingers/small keys)

OP posts:

CaptainVasiliBorodin · 14/10/2014 08:23

I agree with your last paragraph to some extent in that if you assume more responsibilities or are better organised at something you run the risk of enabling the other party to step back and do nothing which over time infantilises them. Other people are just crap at managing their finances/organising their lives and are happy to stumble along lurching from one mini crises to another. Hate to say it my wife was a bit like this before I met her (women-child), she is a chartered accountant but I was staggered how crap she was with money or just basic household management, bills were left unpaid till final demand letters, important documents were stuffed into various draws and boxes, she had no idea roughly what she had in her account from one week to the next yet was happy to make large impulse purchases. When we started to talk about moving in together I basically told her in no uncertain terms that she needed to get her act together as it would drive me crazy living with someone who was so cavalier with these issues. She is a lot more organised now but I still find myself more or less running the house while advising her what I am up to, not because I particularly want to but despite her best intentions things would just not get done. I don’t resent her for it as it’s what I have been doing since I left my parents home but I do sometimes scratch my head at the total lack of curiosity on her part.

JimmyChoosChimichanga · 14/10/2014 08:26

An ex was like this. I eventually met his parents (after two years ) and whilst I thought them lovely people, his DMum was in total control of everything. None of the family had ever cooked, washed up or done anything in the house ever. She even controlled the game of scrabble they had. His 36yo sister got married from that house and had never even made a cup of tea or cooked a meal there. I offered to wash up and there was no way she would have ever let me. Effectively the kids left home having the knowledge of what they had learned at school or from their mates out and about but nothing of the stuff of day to day life.

Have a little smile to yourself that you will be free of the wondering why soon eh?

CogitoErgoSometimes · 14/10/2014 08:30

Is 16yo DS being left behind?

Original poster

yougotafriend · 14/10/2014 08:40

Cogito yes and this is covered in the other thread. I'm not going far and the 2 DC will live between the 2 of us.

Discussed at length with both DS, they know I just can't stay and their DF will never leave. Could I stick it out for 2 more yrs till he goes off to uni? No.

OP posts:

CogitoErgoSometimes · 14/10/2014 08:44

Fair enough, but if Dad is already leaning on the children and/or expecting them to pick up where you left off, I think that has to be nipped in the bud. They're not his carer...

Original poster

yougotafriend · 14/10/2014 08:47

I agree. I need to speak to both of them about roles/boundaries

OP posts:

CogitoErgoSometimes · 14/10/2014 08:49

And your STBXH of course. He's meant to be the grown-up...

Original poster

yougotafriend · 14/10/2014 09:02

Sorry, that's what I meant when I said 'both', DS2 and H.

DS1 would not feel any responsibility to step into the breach and is well aware that his role as a teenager is to get away with doing as little as posdible!

OP posts:

HumblePieMonster · 14/10/2014 09:08

Women bring up men. They should do a better job of it. There's a MNer called 'RaisingMen' - I bet she's given it some thought. We could change the world, one boy-child at a time.

thisisnow · 14/10/2014 10:13

My OH is like this, his Mum does everything for his Dad. I don't think it's his fault but I do blame her as she has raised a completely clueless son.

PeppermintPasty · 14/10/2014 10:20

Oh god, I don't like getting into blaming women for crappy sons. What about their dads?

My ex is a total manchild, full of self pity this last year we've been broken up. Lost the plot completely. His parents are as bad as one another, totally self absorbed, maybe that's it?

BalloonSlayer · 14/10/2014 10:32

I have a book of articles by Erin Pizzey all dating back from the 70s, and one, called "the Narcissistic Man" is a belter.

I can't find it online. Essentially she sees the narcissist and the man-child as the same thing. She roots it in the mother, "She is usually a woman who has opted to marry rather than achieve any of her other potentials" [please remember this was written in 1978] and who has become dissatisfied with her husband. "For a high minded woman who gave up her all to marry this man, it is all too much and she feels extremely disillusioned. So, when her son comes along, she very soon decides to give herself completely to this tiny, helpless little male and fashion her own version of a knight in shining armour." "She loves her son and will do anything for him. In fact, she always does everything for him. She cleans, cooks, washes, irons and makes his bed. He need not have been born with limbs at all. . . . She likes it best when he is ill. He soon likes to be ill because it results in an orgy of caring: a procession of food, books, cool-hands-on-fevered-brow type treatment."

"Sons of those types of mothers are usually chained to them for life. . . They are at their most dangerous when they marry. Too many women mistake the hurt wandering little boy for a potential husband. The problem is that, like Peter Pan, they never grow up. They expect the same caring from their wives as they had from their mothers. They make their homes and their wives a 'safe place' for their forays into the outside world."

"His stock-in-trade is the vulnerable lost-little-boy looking for someone just like you to care for him. Once he is resident he turns into a petulant six year old."

Sorry to bang on, I wish I could type the whole thing. I love Erin, but she is very unpopular these days.

Noctambulist · 14/10/2014 10:35

Women bring up men. They should do a better job of it.

Woah! Really? Men don't bear any responsibility at all? Either for raising their own children or for being competent adults?

Fuck that!

AnyFucker · 14/10/2014 10:39

One of the reasons Ms Pizzey is unpopular these days is because she blames women for the shitty behaviour of men

thisisnow · 14/10/2014 10:41

Agree men are jointly responsible actually!

This is interesting, don't now if it has any truth in it

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/10862153/Dads-who-do-the-housework-will-have-more-ambitious-daughters.html?mobile=basic

Original poster

yougotafriend · 14/10/2014 10:44

Sadly my MIL is no longer around but I don't think she was like that with him.....but his 2 sisters are....both lovely but look up to him in an older brother kind of way and totally put him on a pedestal.

At parties where there is a buffet - they will bring him a plate of food (I don't). When I was in hospital for a week a few years ago, they come down every day to help him with the kids and housework - when I came out (still recouperating, off work for 3 months) I didn't see hide nor hair of them!!!

OP posts:

MissYamabuki · 14/10/2014 10:47

Bad role models at home (parents that control instead of enabling).

Noctambulist · 14/10/2014 10:49

A society that tells men that they needn't bother with the boring crap because some woman will always be around to sort it out?

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