Relationship w sister-in-law

[CheersMedea]

I would welcome advice about how to manage relationship w SIL/ brother and help for my own feelings.

I am one of 3 siblings and we are (were) a close happy family. My younger brother very recently married a woman that none of the rest of my family like for a number of varying reasons depending on the family member ( this is my parents, my other brother, his wife, me and my husband - 6 people in total). She has just announced she is pregnant.

It is awful to confess this (don't hate me) the news upset me terribly. I realised that I had been hoping that they would get divorced/separate at some point and he would realise what a mistake he has made.

One of the reasons I have been so upset, is that I have realised that now (once the child is born) this awful woman will be part of my brother's life forever but also someone that will be part of my life forever.

I don't know what to do. I have no relationship with the SIL, nothing in common with her and think she is one of the rudest, most mannerless women I have ever met. She comes from a very different socio-economic background from my brother (and our other spouses) and her family behaved in the most dreadful way at the wedding. I've previously tried to build a relationship with her but have given up; I think realistically there is no prospect of us ever getting on/being friends - not least because now I really dislike her. My husband has caught her out lying about me to my brother (making up things about what I have said to her). She is trying to turn my brother against the rest of the family and it's working.

The fact of this pregnancy has made me really depressed and I keep dwelling on it. I keep thinking that this woman and her terrible family will now always be part of our lives. I also feel terrible that I am miserable about a pregnancy; I feel like that this makes me a monster. I can't tell me brother how I feel or why I am so down. My husband says that things may improve after the birth but I can't see why this would change anything.

Would welcome any advice, particularly from anyone with similar experiences.

I read this post as you do not understand each other because you are from different backgrounds. She knows you do not like her and that has reflected in her hostility towards you.

You may be slightly jealous that she is pregnant and having the first grandchild.

Can you provide specific examples of what she has done to upset you?

She is trying to turn my brother against the rest of the family and it's working.

I feel for you, but this is your DB's choice of partner. He may or may not have had earlier relationships, but something about her made her the one for him. Does he have any inkling how you feel? Has he made a speech yet along the lines of, "Accept her or don't bother contacting me?" because that might happen.

We all hope our families will like and welcome our partners but there's no law saying they have to. You risk losing your DB if you aren't prepared to grit your teeth to some extent.

It's not the first grandchild - my other brother has children.

The main reason I don't like her is her personality rather than anything she has done to upset me. For example, she is nastily avaricious. My brother has never been money driven and is now killing himself working crazy hours because of her pressure on him. She basically told my parents that they should leave more money in their will to her and my brother because the rest of us were more financially secure. I don't think it's even my place to tell my parents what to do with their money! She is very selfish and basically makes my brother do whatever is convenient for her.

There are specific examples I could point to. She has repeatedly lied (poison in the ear) about the way family members have behaved and my brother has just accepted it. For example, the first time my parents met her was at another family wedding. She told my brother that my parents just blanked her when she went to speak to them. It's just not true; my parents would never behave like that to anyone, let alone my brother's (then) gf who they'd just met. That type of thing.

Does he have any inkling how you feel?

He knows that we don't really like her and that we are accepting her for him. There hasn't been any "her or me" type conversation as no one has said they won't see her/accept her. I would never do that anyway. I love my brother who is a fantastic man.

How I feel about the pregnancy is different though; I've had a really depressive reaction to it.

As I said, the problem is that (obviously!) subconsciously I was thinking "I can cope with this for a few years" until they split up. But now (even if they do get divorced), she will be permanently connected to him (and us).

Sounds like your brother has married a "bit of rough" and you all look down your noses at her?

Sorry but that is the main thing I got when you mentioned her being from "a very different socio-economic background" from your brother (and other spouses)

Does she work?

Do you think that she could maybe behave the way she does as she feels self conscious / judged by you all?

I am intrigued to hear what her family did at the wedding though I must admit!

Sounds like your brother has married a "bit of rough" and you all look down your noses at her?

I would freely admit that there is a bit of snobbery on my part (that's not true of my parents or other brother though; my other brother particularly is really not like that).

But that's not the main problem as I've indicated above - it's more personality.

Do you think that she could maybe behave the way she does as she feels self conscious / judged by you all?

Possibly but doubtful because she does work and is v. self confident and this was there right from the start; I think we were all very open and welcoming to her at the beginning. I guess she may feel like that now.

I have a SIL (DH's brother's wife) that no-one in DH's family likes. the reasons are different and are very hard to pinpoint but she is very selfish in a different way from your SIL. It has actually become easier over the years. BIL (her DH) often visits his parents without her and is often in London (where we live) on work related things so meets up with us (or just DH) then. She attends things just often enough that everyone can pretend there is no issue to confront, and actually because we don't see her often it is not too difficult to be tolerant when we do see her (and vice versa). And I also think we have grown to like each other a bit more with the distance.

They have not had children - openly a deliberate decision. They are still together 25 years on (married for 15 of that). The fact they have not had DC makes MIL very sad for her son (she assumes it is really SIL's decision). Actually, I think BIL genuinely did not want children either. He is also very selfish with quite a studenty lifestyle (but very affable personality).

Not sure why I am posting really except to say that (1) even without DC they may well have stayed together, and (2) you may well find a way of all tolerating each other over time, or at least continuing your relationship with your DB separately.

My brother has been married for many, many years to a woman who I do not like. However, he does like her and has made it clear that he would choose her over his family. So in order to keep some minimal contact with my brother and his children, I play the game and am polite towards her although she's a psychotic bitch

She basically told my parents that they should leave more money in their will to her and my brother because the rest of us were more financially secure. I don't think it's even my place to tell my parents what to do with their money!

Well, quite. But calling her avaricious when she works too, and getting cross on DB's behalf because she appears to be forcing him to work mad hours, that is his choice, he may be working extra hours because of planning a family, fuming about it all being SIL's fault may be inaccurate.

Your situation sounds familiar, does your younger brother work at a hedge fund?

You say your family are close so it's possible that you are over invested in this. Your strength of feeling and feeling depressed over it seems a little extreme.

It reads a little like you expected her to do a special acceptance dance when you all met but as she's confident she didn't follow your rules? So she wasn't accepted into the group.
May be she felt shy and self conscious when you all met and again wasn't up for your acceptance ritual and thought genuinely felt that you were cold (judgemental!!) towards her.

You say you've tried to connect and it's not worked. Well really that's just part of being an adult. Not everyone gels and can be best friends. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with either of you though.

I also agree with a pp that casting your eye over matters and deducing that your SIL is a slave driver forcing things on to your DB is quite possibly incorrect. Even if it's not then your DB is an adult and can look after himself. He might be entirely happy with the set up.

It's not ideal but really there is absolutely nothing you can do other than go back, give her the benefit of doubt and try again to connect. Or detach and maintain a less close relationship with our DB.

She might not be very nice but she's your brother's choice, so you either get over yourself and pretend that you can tolerate her or have as little contact as you can get away with while saying absolutely nothing negative to your brother. The distress over the pregnancy sounds a tiny bit histrionic to me. "She's horrible and now we'll never be free of her!" Do you have any idea of how over-dramatic that sounds to an outsider?

Why don't you try and take the high road here?

Firstly, you could send them a card and a small gift congratulating them on their news. It's a small gesture to extend an olive branch.

This does all come across as quite dramatic, and you are making assumptions here about her. I'm not saying she isn't doing the same thing about you, but this sort of open hostility helps no-one and just perpetuates the cycle.

Thanks for the replies and advice. I think it probably is a case of nothing to be done. Toleration is the best that can be hoped for.

The distress over the pregnancy sounds a tiny bit histrionic to me. "She's horrible and now we'll never be free of her!" Do you have any idea of how over-dramatic that sounds to an outsider?

You may say that but it has honestly made me feel very depressed. It's genuinely how I feel about it. & it's true - now, because of the child, we will never be free of her.

If she is making up lies about you and trying to isolate your brother from the family (at the same time as asking your parents to leave more money in their will!!) I think the best thing you can do is the same as you'd do to a woman in an abusive relationship:

When you can, take a little bit of time alone with your brother. Say to him that you are concerned about some of the things being said and you'd ask him strongly to take them with a big pinch of salt until he's actually spoken to you. Remind him of the sort of person you are and how you've been open towards his other girlfriends (you have, haven't you?). Say that you're afraid that it's becoming more difficult to retain the sort of easy relationship you had before. And that if ever he needs to talk, then you're available for him.

Don't be emotional about it. Just say it quietly then probably change the subject.

Firstly, you could send them a card and a small gift congratulating them on their news. It's a small gesture to extend an olive branch.

That's a good idea but it makes me feel a bit uncomfortable as it's so hypocritical. I think I will try that though.

Meerka

Say to him that you are concerned about some of the things being said and you'd ask him strongly to take them with a big pinch of salt until he's actually spoken to you. Remind him of the sort of person you are and how you've been open towards his other girlfriends (you have, haven't you?). Say that you're afraid that it's becoming more difficult to retain the sort of easy relationship you had before. And that if ever he needs to talk, then you're available for him

The "you know what we are like and we wouldn't do that" conversation has been had already. Brother basically agrees says "I know you wouldn't" but then later on will bring up the alleged behaviour as part of the next complaint.

Eg. Incident A: Wife says you were rude to her in xyz way. No I wasn't you know I'd never do that. Yes I know you wouldn't.

Incident B: Wife says you did abc. No I didn't. But what about Incident A remember what you did then? You've done this before . .. Er... no, it never happened and you accepted it. etc etc.

The main targets for this are me, my parents and my other brother's wife. My husband and other brother don't get this for some reason.

I agree with the previous poster that you sound very involved in this and your response to the pregnancy sounds over-dramatic. Everyone has in-laws they don't get on with, or even members of their own family they don't like, but the mature thing to do is be polite and civil whenever you meet - you don't have to be best friends! Are your family very close and involved in each other's lives, or is there a bit of distance between you?

You are also assuming that she is forcing your brother to work long hours - I would guess that everything he does that you don't agree with, you now blame on your SIL. Does he know how much you and the family dislike her?

And a word of caution - my DH is currently the 'neutral party' between his two brothers, as their DPs have fallen out, so the brothers are not speaking to each other. I can see how much this is affecting his relationship with his brothers - they were close, but DH is now pretty unimpressed with their (and his SILs) inability to be civil to each other. It would be very unfair for you to expect your brother to choose his family over his wife, and likely to damage your relationship with him.

you are not going to like this .but i think you are needing to get your head out of your own arse ,,.she is diffrent socio/economic ..god she is working class ..god help her ..your brother loves her so what has it to do with you ..i have been married over 20 years and in all that time my mother has hated my husband .he worked the same job for 30 year .two jobs at one time when kids were small .he was always fair with money .never treated me or children bad .but he has quirky persononality .obsessive /aspergers ..so my mother found him wierd ..but i am married to him no one else ..just like your brother is not asking you to marry her ...i feel sorry for the poor cow .

You're painting a picture of an abusive wife. I don't know whether this is the case, or an extrapolation from the hostile relationship that's developed between you & SIL. The pair of you might both be reading the worst into each other's behaviours - or your brother might really be in an abusive marriage.

In either case, advice is basically to keep a constructive relationship going with your brother. As he is married to SIL, this obviously requires civil behaviour towards her. There are lots of situations in life where we have to go through the motions; do so! Send them congratulations on their pregnancy, show an interest in developments, include them in Christmas & parental birthdays, and so on. You've only got to be polite; you don't have to love her or change her.

You support your brother by supporting him, not by being vile to someone else.

You're being totally bonkers with your assumption that a baby means they'll be together forever, by the way! I know you can't change your feeling of despondency, but you can talk yourself out of it with a bit of common sense.

You sound enmeshed in your brother and sil' s relationship. Do you feel entitled to manage your brother's relationships for him? Trying to say this as kindly as I can: Perhaps you could come to an understanding that his relationship is really none of your business. (Because it isn't.)

we will never be free of her does sound melodramatic ('the shades of Pemberley thus polluted')...It is also untrue. You can choose who to tolerate/not tolerate in your life...You always have the option of going no contact with her. If she degrades, disgusts, and diminishes you by her mere existence then I suggest that you put great boundaries in place to protect your standards as well as doing her the favor of giving her the gift of your absence.

If you choose to not go no contact (for whatever reason for example thinking your family group will gang up on her and pressure her to leave), then you would be out of order to remain on the scene lamenting her presence. Imho, your good breeding is slipping at this test. Civility should rule the day across the board.

she is diffrent socio/economic ..god she is working class ..god help her ..your brother loves her so what has it to do with you ..

THIS is not the problem. The problem as I have indicated is her lies about us to my brother, her unpleasant personality and rude behaviour.
Which has a lot to do with me.

You're being totally bonkers with your assumption that a baby means they'll be together forever,

No - that wasn't the point. The point is that if a couple with no children divorce, no further contact is necessary. Once they have a child, they forever remain in each others (and each others family's) lives - the parents remain grandparents etc.

Just to give you an insight into how she may feel- DP's SIL and DB both dislike me. They have been quite forthcoming regarding it and it has caused massive problems in all our lives. It started when we got together- they didn't like the fact he met me so soon after getting divorced- fair enough I thought they got on well with his ex- I'll just try to be nice, but they continued to look down at me and make remarks. We got pregnant before them and they were not exactly over joyed- it basically stressed me out to the point of not wanting to visit them (they live a drive away) or have them visit (but I would always offer to DP and make an effort). Then when I had my DC things changed as even though I know how they were shit to me and rude they couldn't have been nicer to the DC and this made them a lot easier to tolerate. However, DP and I are having issues at the moment and I know that because of the history with hid DB and SIL he will not confide or seek advice from them - which is sad.

All I'm saying is if you don't like her she will pick up on it and any accidental slip by your family- ie what if your parents genuinely didn't see her but she believed due to the history that they blanked her.

Make the effort as you DB may need you

if you brother divorced her .yes the baby would remain in your life .can,t see any reason she would . you would probably see the child with your brother but can,t see any reason she would come ..i mean she probably would,nt want to anyway .if i divorced my hubby the day before tommorow .i would be glad never to see his family again glad with a huge G .

Accept she is his choice and here to stay. Accept also, that you don't like her. And then get on with it as best you can. That's all you can do, or you risk losing all contact with your brother.