When family don't 100 % support your potential same sex marriage, what do you do?

[breakingtradition]

Hi

Firstly, this was insprired by another thread on here recently, about a woman who's GF was unsure whether or not she wanted to marry her, due to family issues. Anyway, it's brought up thoughts and questions, which I've been burying for a while now.

So my GF, who I've been with for 2 years, proposed a year a go and I said no. I made it clear it wasn't because I didn't love her to pieces or that I wasn't 100% committed to her, but it was just that the timing was all wrong. My family (mum and dad mainly) had only just started to let it sink in. I was always with men before my GF and they had no inclining of my bisexuality, so it came as quite a shock when I told them I was in love with a woman. GF did genuinely understand the reasons and I think wishes she could have just held off until the time was right. But the more I think about it, the more I think 'well who says when the right time is?!' It's our life and actually, my family have accepted her. The problem is, before I announced my new relationship, my parents were borderline homophobic and my mum especially, didn't support gay marriage in any way. My mum would turn over if any gay scenes came on tv and growing up, I had a lot of arguments with her about sexuality not being a choice. She didn't realise I was talking from experience, but obviously their attitudes would have made it really hard to come out and tell them I was actually bisexual.

Now, my parents have become very close to my GF and I think there's genuine love there. The problem is, I can't be doing with this half accepting thing. For example, they're very welcoming and if anyone ever said anything nasty about our relationship, they'd fight our corner to the death, but I know deep down that if we did get married, my mum especially, would be sad and disappointed and I can't have that feeling on what should be the happiest day of my life. I know they both love me regardless of who I share a bed with, but there's always this feeling of not being able to be 100% a couple iyswim. We (me, my gf and my mum and dad) have had a couple of arguments, ending in tears unfortunately, where we talk about gay marriage and when my mum has had a few, the truth really does come out (in wine, truth) and she'll go back to saying that she's entitled to her opinion and she doesn't think that gay marriage is right or necessary, but she'll still say that if we were to tie the knot she would want to be there. Am I wrong for feeling like the whole day would be tarnished because of that?

I've had a feeling recently that my GF might ask me again and I want to say yes. I just want to be able to announce it and for people to be happy for us.

I don't really know if I'm looking for advice, or what. I know there are no magic answers and I know I should just do what's right for us, but would be great to hear your thoughts.

TIA

I think family should be listened to when it comes to life partners because, by and large, they know us better than most and usually have our best interests at heart. That said, you're a grown up and therefore answerable to no-one but yourself. Have the courage of your convictions and if others are unhappy, that's really their problem.

Id marry her and not invite my mum in your situation.

If you were in love with and about to marry a man whom your family liked but struggled with one aspect of your relationship, would you go ahead with it?
It's almost genetically programmed into some Mums to be disappointed in their daughters choice of partner/wedding venue/dress/whatever: getting married, making that level of commitment, very often brings out strange behaviours in families. So, bearing that in mind, and accepting that there is a likelihood that your family will behave oddly about something in this wedding anyway, why not just marry the person you love?

Given the extent to which she's come round to accepting the relationship, I would be sure she would eventually be accepting of the marriage.

I don't think you should focus about what the wedding day would mean to her. It's about you and your DP. If you love each other and want to be together, then why on earth would you jeopardise that for the sake of your mother and any latent homophobic feelings she has?

I really don't think you should sacrifice your happiness for the sake of your family, especially as it's likely they will come round in time.

Take your parents out of the equation for a minute. Do you want to marry this woman? There's your answer.

You can always get married privately if you feel your parents are going to spoil the day for you. It sounds like they are against gay marriage and homosexuality in general, but are willing to see past their overt prejudice when it comes to you because they love you and have come to accept and like your GF. However, if a gay relationship is always going to be second-best to a straight one in their eyes, you might want to spend your special day either privately, or with those who can wholeheartedly celebrate with you.

So- who is more important here?

You could keep your mum happy by saying no. But that does mean telling your GF that you won't marry her. And living with this whole "not 100% a couple" thing.

Both ppl are important to you. So it comes down to whose behaviour do you want to reward: your mum's homophobia or your GF's love?

It's not about the day itself. I have been married 24 years and I can assure you that the day itself vanishes pretty quickly into the ether, when the real business of building a family life takes over. Please destroy any bridezilla/princess for a day/happiest day of my life voices that may be infesting your head . It's about your chance of happiness long-term as an adult.

Will you love, honour and defend your wife to your family long-term? if so, then having your mum there on the day, with all the tensions and stresses, is all part of the marriage, because those stresses and tensions will continue throughout the marriage. There will be many a rueful grin, and someone detailed to stop her getting too pissed; and you two will deal with it together as a couple.

The distinction for me is whether they like your partner or not. The gay part is just window-dressing... like a prospective partner being a different religion or something else trivial. If they like your partner as a person then you formalise the relationship however you see fit. If they had serious objections to your partner (other than the fact that she's female) you might listen to the objections and see if they had a point. Then formalise the relationship anyway.

I think you are overemphasising the importance of your wedding day. I can't say my wedding was the happiest days of my life, one of. I remember feeling a bit miffed that I didn't feel overwhelming happiness. The wedding day did bring on some odd behaviour in our families (not from our mums but close enough) and I learned later that it pretty much happens to everybody. Some members of my family took a while to warm up to my husband but it didn't put me off marrying him.

Thanks, Cog. You're right.

Pill, I get why you're saying that and if I'm being honest, it has crossed my mind that we should just go off somewhere and do it, just the two of us, but then the only reason I would do that would be to avoid any negative feelings. It wouldn't have any romantic notions attached to it, like spontaneously getting hitched, without friends or family knowing, would normally have. It would be for the wrong reasons. There would be a sense of shame. I know you're suggesting simply not inviting my mum, but I am very close to her and overall, I get on well with her. She would never forgive me and would be absolutely heartbroken if I didn't invite her.

momb, I know what you're saying. My mum and dad didn't really think my ex was right for me, but he did end up being part of the family in the end. I think they loved him, but still didn't think he was good enough for me. That said, I think overall they would have been happy if we did get married. We have a DD together, so I think they believed that would be best for her. Forgetting the fact that we just weren't right for one another and actually, our relationship was fairly toxic for our DD.

Freckled, I really would hope so. The problem is, the disliked she had for homosexuality was really very strong. It's hard to forget that.

I honestly think that you're being quite hard on your mum here. You say that your parents have come around to the idea of you being with a woman, and you also say that they love her. They would fight your corner for you AND she has said that she'd like to be at your wedding! You can't prevent her from holding her deep personal opinions on gay marriage, but she sounds like she has overcome almost all of them by accepting your relationship. I would stop overthinking the wedding day...this is about a marriage, not a day, and I think you're lucky to have parents to be there.

Seems we have cross posted.

Juneau, the answer is yes. I have lots of people in my life who would be really happy and would want to celebrate the day with us, but if my mum weren't there, it would just feel wrong and so I wouldn't be able to enjoy it anyway.

Bestof, very wise words. Regarding your who'd behaviour am I rewarding comment, it's a very good point. The thing is, my mum wouldn't describe herself as homophobic anymore. She would say she's seen the light and similar, but she still comes out with silly, bigoted and to be perfectly honest, offensive comments, but then tries to paper of over cracks as it were, by saying that she accepts us completely. I definitely agree it's not all about the day. It's a tiny tiny part of it, but I suffer quite badly at times, with anxiety and this kind of situation would really bring that to the surface and make it difficult for me to actually get through the day.

I also have a little sympathy for Mum. I'm nearly 50, very live and let live, but find openly gay relationships are still a bit 'other'. Generational thing really. Having attended my first same sex civil partnership a couple of years ago, there we all were having a fantastic time at the party afterwards when a friend at the table gave me a conspiratorial look and giggled... 'I don't know about you but just being here is making me feel really.... 'daring!'' And I knew exactly what he meant. It's very new for a lot of us oldsters.

ouch, I get what you mean, but it's not quite as simple as that. There's always a little drip feed of prejudice from my mum. So she'll keep switching from one opinion to the next. I am really happy and grateful overall, that they've been accepting of my DP and I honestly wasn't expecting it. However, it's very confusing and hurtful when a comment such as "I am entitled to my opinion and I love you, but I don't think same sex marriage should have been legalised" is made. So I'm not sure I'm being hard on her.

Cog, oh. Being gay isn't new, being so open about it is. I'm not sure what you mean by you "find openly gay relationships are still a bit 'other' "

And also, whereas I agree about generational divides being relevant, it doesn't excuse prejudice. If we just accept the divide, we'll never move forward, or the process will certainly be much slower.

Get married.

Politely tell her to keep those kinds of opinions to herself.

I know she is your mum and you love her to bits, etc, but she cannot control your life - either directly or indirectly. Be very nice about everything, don't get into a heated argument over anything, perhaps get her to help irganise bits of your wedding. But do have a wedding!

el, thank you.

breakingtradition - well I am 30, and see absolutely no issue with gay marriage whatsoever. One of my female friends had a baby rather recently with her female partner, and one of the best weddings I've ever been to was of a male gay couple (although it was technically a civil partnership, frankly it was exactly the same as a civil wedding even then).

And I STILL think you are being too hard on your mum.

Your parents grew up in a time where sexuality was something to be kept in the closet, and not really to be talked about it any way - even for straight couples. She's probably had her parents drilling equally homophobic stuff into her whilst growing up. Gay scenes on television were probably weird for her because they are so alien. Yes, she might have said some pretty horrific stuff in the past, but what have her ACTIONS told you?

You say yourself that she has accepted your partner. And to me it is very telling that she would fight your corner to the death if challenged. She clearly loves both of you, and isn't ashamed to stand up for the two of you.

She has said that she would actively want to come to your wedding for fuck's sake!

That, to me, demonstrates that for all her "social conditioning", she loves you, wants you to be happy, and is probably way less homophobic than she thinks she is.

If she was genuinely a homophobe, then she could have cut all contact with you, refused to discuss your situation with others...whatever. But she hasn't done that has she.

If anything, whilst understandable, I think you are being quite precious about the whole thing. Even in straight relationships, it is not uncommon for parents to have misgivings about some aspect of the wedding - whether that's because you are marrying someone from a different religion, or having a civil wedding instead of a church affair, or because you are marrying a johnny foreigner.

It is unrealistic AT BEST for anyone to expect that their parents be on EXACTLY the same page as them about every single aspect of their wedding.

It sounds like in practise, she has very much embraced your partner and your relationship - which to be frank is much more than some of "liberals" that I know have done. Just because she might have some philosophical disagreement about whether gay marriage should have been legalised, doesn't mean that she would be hulking in a corner spitting at you at your wedding.

Personally, if you want to get married I think you should accept the proposal from your partner (or maybe propose yourself since she did it last time?). Then ring your parents with the good news and see what their reaction is. Let your mother be involved in dress picking, or whatever.

She doesn't deserve to be cut out of this unless she gives you reason to.

OP you say your mother's opinion of your marriage would mar the wedding day. But doesn't not being married to the woman you want to be married to mar every day?

I mean it's 'other' for me because it simply wasn't something I knew about for a very large part of my life. I come from a reasonably small town and I grew up in the 1970s. Gay people were not out and proud, there were no diversity/awareness lessons at school, no gay pride festivals, no openly gay celebrities (plenty of camp ones) .... even the word 'gay' was something that I don't remember hearing until the whole AIDS thing hit the headlines in the early eighties. People older than me grew up when being gay was illegal, of course. I don't think someone under 30 can quite appreciate what a shift in thinking has taken place. I don't like prejudice and wouldn't tolerate it, but I don't think anyone should be surprised if some are slow to catch on to the latest morality.

If you really want to make your mum happy, ditch the GF and marry a man.

Better still, just marry the GF it may not be what your mum dreamed of for you but oh well, my mum wanted me to be a doctor and I'm not.

Blimey cog I am older than you and you have just made me feel really, really ancient . Generational thing? I might use that phrase of my long-dead granny, or perhaps my own MIL, but myself? gulp...

There were loads of gay ppl when I was growing up. I had gay friends at Uni. I think your experience must have been very very different from mine.

What has really changed since my childhood is the number of ppl who were not born in the UK and the number of faces that are not white. But I am managing to cope with the change....

OP I am interested that like so many ppl who post on MN, you discuss anxiety issues. It seems terrible that you might not get through the day if you were tense about your DM. Is that really how it is for you? . I mean, we all feel wound up on a big day, but that is not the same as proper anxiety, is it?

@Beastofburden. Sorry to make you feel old. :) I do remember the DM of a friend leaving her husband for another woman when I was growing up now I think about it. But that fell under the heading of 'sensational & shocking scandal' to be whispered about over a cuppa ... Grim Northern town.

Kay, I never said I was going to cut her out the day, that's the whole point, but anyway. I don't expect them to be on EXACTLY the same page, but to tell me one minute that they love me regardless and that my DP is a lovely girl, then the next, tell me that gay couples should keep what they do behind closed doors and that we don't need to see it, and comments alike, is ok is it?.......so I should accept that, just because she's from a different generation? I'm sorry, but do you think there would be a difference if I was marrying a black man and they didn't agree with interracial marriage? Would you say that it just didn't happen in their time and so therefore I should respect their opinion?.....

Beast, yeah it's not nice. I've had it forever really and I really wish I didn't. I know everybody experiences nerves, but it's quite exhausting to have anxiety so often. Outwardly, I come across as confident apparently and when I tell people I have it, they're quite surprised. Maybe I'm better at masking it than I thought.